Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[guitarguyvic]

I just can't understand how anyone can watch this team closely and conclude that they are an average goalie away from being significantly better, and that throwing away a top 10 pick for any such goalie that's realistically available is good use of assets.

Structured defense, board battles, physicality, physical and mental toughness, puck management...most of our skaters play these elements of the game like children. Average goaltending isn't doing shit without an improvement in these areas.

 

[Bcap88]

The things I would do for .915

Kahkonen had 920 and went 1-4 lol

 

[Better Call Sal]

I just can't understand how anyone can watch this team closely and conclude that they are an average goalie away from being significantly better, and that throwing away a top 10 pick for any such goalie that's realistically available is good use of assets.

Structured defense, board battles, physicality, physical and mental toughness, puck management...most of our skaters play these elements of the game like children. Average goaltending isn't doing shit without an improvement in these areas.

A coaching change will make a world of difference in most of these areas.

 

[NJDevs26]

It sucks that in retrospect, it would have been better to have traded Holtz instead of Zetterlund.

People assume the Devils weren't already trying to trade Holtz...Grier was here, he wanted Zetterlund and didn't want Holtz in the Timo trade. Part of me thinks they're so publicly down on him because they know they can't trade him for any real value anyway, so they have no other recourse than to hope public embarrassment works.

Even despite his sixteen goals this year he probably wasn't getting much interest at the deadline ergo Fitz rolling him under the bus just as the deadline was about to expire.

 

[Bcap88]

He doesn't hurt Colorado because they're not mental babies. If he was here, the results would be pathetic.

Let’s not forget that the mental fortitude didn’t happen overnight lol

The four years prior to winning the cup they didn’t make it out of the second round

 

[Nocashstyle]

A coaching change will make a world of difference in most of these areas.

A coaching change, better goaltending, and health.

All are attainable for next season, despite what the doom and gloomers want to argue.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

It sucks that in retrospect, it would have been better to have traded Holtz instead of Zetterlund.

Zetterlund had a good year but he also averaged 20 minutes a game and played on the Sharks top powerplay and still only produced at half a point per game. I certainly didn't want to trade him but I would rather hold on to Holtz than let him go in that deal.

 

[JrFischer54]

I'm really at the point with this guy where I can't think EVERYONE in management is wrong about him. You just wonder why they're so public about it, it clearly isn't helping anyone.

out of that draft with 3 picks in the first round the devils get holtz meh mukmahdula jury still out on what he becomes and mercer who is good but still unknown for sure.

this on top of the fact this franchise drafted mikey in the same position almost a couple years before ty smith also i forget what year. i have zero faith in this franchise scouting/developing first round talent. unless it seems to be within the 1-4 range they are just throwing darts on a board because these guys just aren't panning out.

so count me in the 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% wanting to trade this pick for a player that can help TODAY. not 4 years from now but today!

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Basically all of that eroded as the year went on.

I'd factor in mental part of it just as much as the physical. Can't discount how taxing it is to be busting your ass off and trying not to make a mistake while Smith gets to do whatever the hell he wants and not get punished at all for it.

Multiple things going on here.

1)yes we need an (at least) average goalie, but we still need to acquire said goalie.

2)bad vs average vs good goaltending is one topic of discussion. Aged and expensive is another.

3) Rags are going to beat a better team on the back of superior goal tending.

All this said, I've been a proponent of Allen and Kahk going into next season. Or at least I have been open to the option.

Fitz doesn't seem to into the idea though.

I think Allen fits that description tbh. I disagree Rags will beat a better team with just better goaltending.

 

[JrFischer54]

I was in the group of trading holtz but at this point the return will be so minimal its not even worth risking him catching fire on another team. unless we are getting back a similar project type player for him? i dont want a 2nd round or 3rd pick for him i want a similar type player

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

No to what? Holtz hasn’t produced offense and Smith had produced more as a dman at that point.

Holtz has shown very little at the NHL level and clearly lacks the offensive skillset. As I said in a previous post he’s got a decent offensive mind and a pretty good but one-dimensional shot that he rarely gets off. Other than that he doesn’t bring much and is a shitty skater and loses battles.

16g with very limited ice time is not producing? I get he's not a good player but he has produced...

Let’s not forget that the mental fortitude didn’t happen overnight lol

The four years prior to winning the cup they didn’t make it out of the second round

Sure, wasn't my point though. Point was people here are making the goalie issue much bigger than it should be. As @guitarguyvic pointed out, they have a ton to improve on outside the goalie

 

[guitarguyvic]

Zetterlund had a good year but he also averaged 20 minutes a game and played on the Sharks top powerplay and still only produced at half a point per game. I certainly didn't want to trade him but I would rather hold on to Holtz than let him go in that deal.

I have to disagree. Zetterlund with his speed, physicality, utility as a bottom 6 forward who can also temporarily fill in on the second line if needed due to injury., scoring~15 goals/~30 points...fills much more of a need for this team than Holtz scoring ~20 goals and sucking at everything else.

 

[Guadana]

He doesn't hurt Colorado because they're not mental babies. If he was here, the results would be pathetic.

Allen stands on his head in many games, result was pathetic.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Allen stands on his head in many games, result was pathetic.

Further proves my point

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Here is my Dano memorabilia at my desk at work. Just felt like sharing.

 

[Rhodes 81]

Even at his best he wasn’t that good. But anyone in the NHL on their best nights is gonna look pretty good. At the end of the day he’s just not good enough IMO and I’m not sure what makes you think he’s gonna win more battles if he doesn’t have the puck skill or strength to do so.

I don't necessarily think he is... this conversation started with me saying I thought he was bad for most of the year. I have been pro hanging onto Holtz and thought he wasn't afforded enough opportunity last year. This year is a different story. He got consistent games and couldn't sustain anything. He played very poorly.

Most players improve their puck battles (and get stronger) as they enter their primes. He's still a few years off of that which is why I think those factors could improve. If he does that, it could make him more effective as a forechecker and able to do enough to get by defensively. At that point, his vision, shot, and decent enough passing skills would be enough to make him valuable as a 2nd line PP specialist. That's what he needs to work on. Those are things Bratt has developed into being plus attributes over the past few years. Holtz works with Bratt in the offseason, so I have hope that it is possible for him. But I would cash out on the asset in a heartbeat as well.

It sucks that in retrospect, it would have been better to have traded Holtz instead of Zetterlund.

Fitz spoke a couple of times around the trade deadline last year about how it is difficult when other teams don't have the same opinion of prospects as you do. It seemed pretty clear he was talking about Holtz and that meant the Sharks didn't want him (at least as a centerpiece of a trade). Maybe Fitz was only willing to include the conditional 1st/2nd with Zetterlund instead of Holtz. Fitz may have felt that way because Zetterlund was 3 years older, lower ceiling, and likely to be more expensive sooner.

I also think Z probably just had the best statistical season he will ever have.

I'd factor in mental part of it just as much as the physical. Can't discount how taxing it is to be busting your ass off and trying not to make a mistake while Smith gets to do whatever the hell he wants and not get punished at all for it.

I get what you're saying, but if this is the root of the problem for Holtz he is never going to be a legitimate NHL player.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I just can't understand how anyone can watch this team closely and conclude that they are an average goalie away from being significantly better, and that throwing away a top 10 pick for any such goalie that's realistically available is good use of assets.

Structured defense, board battles, physicality, physical and mental toughness, puck management...most of our skaters play these elements of the game like children. Average goaltending isn't doing shit without an improvement in these areas.

Who is suggesting this, exactly?

 

[JimEIV]

Nope I didnt. Vancouver shotout Nashville with their third goalie. If goalies are average or better - its a competition of teams, not goalies. We dont need aged expensive goalie to compete, we need depth and structure. Wee need average goalie who can be above the water.

Such beautiful words

 

[Unknown Caller]

Overall Fitz should not care about panic fans who wants "now". He should work with low price trades, free agents and draft. Because this team still has problems to adress and still very young to not waste all the assets to win it now, a lot of players are on ELC or on cheap deals, enough of cap hit to sign players.


All of actual top-10 picks trades were bad except Fiala for Ohgren and Faber - it was even. Even if fans are dreaming about this trade and how "unknown" this top-10 pick player is, it doesnt change the fact that mostly it is a bad strategy in the league to trade this assets for winning now. I believe Ottawa regrets about their decision with Debrinkat and Chycrun. If some fan thinks that we will have better outcome - its the bet people can bet.

I’m as patient of a fan as there is and I’ve agreed with being deliberate for a decade. But the time for waiting is over, and it’s time to make moves for “now”.

The Hischier/Jack/Bratt/Timo/Dougie core deserve 5-6 shots at a playoff run while they’re still in their prime. In 5 years, they’ll all be in their early to mid 30s (with the exception of Jack) and out of their prime contention window.

I’m not saying to throw away assets for stupid decisions, but the time is over for clutching every valuable pick and prospect.

 

[Forge]

Its time to cut the cord this summer ala Ty Smith

What teams are cap pressed this off season? Could make sense to move him to a team like that for a vet making a few million that they need to trim from the roster.

 

[Forge]

Window is not open... that's the mistake.

We were tied with Calgary and Seattle in points this season. We were closer to the bottom 5 than we were to a playoff spot. And you believe the "window is open"?

Time to start the rebuild. Ship out anyone who is over 23 or doesn't have "grit"

 

[Mgd31]

What teams are cap pressed this off season? Could make sense to move him to a team like that for a vet making a few million that they need to trim from the roster.

Not sure maybe Vegas? A guy like Nicholas Roy fills a need and intrigues me. Assuming he is a center.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I'm fine with either thought process, I do think this team/fanbase deserve to go all in multiple times during this core's window. The Metro will absurdly ripe for the picking next year, the Rangers are getting older granted they'll always be a thorn, Carolina will have a massive exodus of players through UFA, the Jackets/Flyers/Islanders are walking mediocrity. Penguins/Caps are going to be a downswing. If it's not now, when is this team ever going to go "all in" in the Metro and more broadly the East/league?

He doesn't hurt Colorado because they're not mental babies. If he was here, the results would be pathetic.

Devils have Georgiev last year and they're probably in the Cup Final. And we really can't say this considering what happened to Colorado multiple times before winning the Cup like other people have said and they just legit lost to Seattle last year R1 with a good Georgiev in net lol

 

[theoptimist]

The 1/2 year deals we’re thinking about are for a certain kind of player. The 2/3C UFA will not be signing for anything short of 4 years (fire the agent if they do). The top 4 LHD UFA (we cannot afford). If we trade for either the 2/3C or top 4 LHD, they will come with term and will depend on what you’re okay with giving up. That’s not considering what goalie Fitz is thinking of acquiring. Most of the goalie we covet will come with term on pre-COVID deals. All these should be considered when looking at our current cap.

 

[Forge]

Not sure maybe Vegas? A guy like Nicholas Roy fills a need and intrigues me. Assuming he is a center.

Vegas was the guy I immediately went to as well lol

Admittedly, I haven't looked into their actual cap situation though.