Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[Guadana]

I wouldn’t trade either the 10th pick or Mercer for ANY goalie.

I ask everyone to check capfriendly, we are broke.

Im ok to trade it for Swayman(even if he is playing under much better structure) but guys like Swayman or Brady Tkachuk would not be traded for 10OA pick or for Mercer.

 

[devilsblood]

Ruff did this.

 

[HBK27]

I'm really at the point with this guy where I can't think EVERYONE in management is wrong about him. You just wonder why they're so public about it, it clearly isn't helping anyone.

Hopefully this lights a fire under him and he realizes it's not an issue of the NJ coaching staff not giving him a fair shake. But certainly not looking good for his development.

 

[devilsblood]

It wasnt the issue after trades, this team didnt start to win. Goaltending should be fixed but not by ruining depth and trading players with top-6 potential. They were good with Vanecek and Blackwood year ago. Even this season Vanecek had good winning records.

Everything we have in Mercer we will know in the next years. Because we have him under control to study him. We dont have control under Saros or Ullmark and we have much more risks with their aging under new 7-8 mil deals.

One year out of how many where our goalies, and team record, wasn't abysmal.....

 

[theoptimist]

Im ok to trade it for Swayman(even if he is playing under much better structure) but guys like Swayman or Brady Tkachuk would not be traded for 10OA pick or for Mercer.

After 1 gin and tonic, I will trade #10 and Mercer for Tkachuk

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I wouldn’t trade either the 10th pick or Mercer for ANY goalie.

I ask everyone to check capfriendly, we are broke.

we literally have like $24 million in space this summer? What?

 

[Guadana]

Look, I respect your posts, and know you have a keen eye for scouting, but the reality is, the draft is a crapshoot. This team’s core is ready to contend. I don’t think an 18 year old who 1.) may or may not even be an NHLer in general or 2.) if the team is lucky enough to draft an NHL talent, the player is still likely 3 or 4 years away from being a true impact player, is as valuable as a known impact commodity for where the Devils are at right now.

We’ve had enough first round picks to fill out a very solid core. It’s time to address immediate needs if a deal is there.

I’m not advocating for Fitz to just throw the pick away at anyone, but it is a valuable piece to center a deal around.

I have an eye on managing. Trading pick is a bad management if you are not getting player like Fiala under control.
1) top-15 of this draft is loaded by nhl talent. examples of this top-10 picks trades were before on the board. they were bad
2) this goalie can washed up after 2-3 years. or earlier.

You dont know how enough talents we have. We missed play off this year. Ottawa cant win the playoff spot at all - with Stuzle, Tkachuk, Norris, Sanderson, etc They traded away two picks for Chycrun and Debrinkat.- very talented players. Like very very talented - you can only dream to have this players in the trade for our 10OA. And still it didnt help and they wasted their assets.

Im not against trade this pick at all. But trading this pick for Ullmark or for Saros is bad management. Trading this pick for top 4 LHD is okay if this player will be under control for the next valuable period.

we literally have like $24 million in space this summer? What?

Yeah go to the market and do the job, Fitz. Free cap is free.

 

[Guadana]

One year out of how many where our goalies, and team record, wasn't abysmal.....

Blackwood was bad, Vanecek was bad somewhere in february and march and after. Georgiev doesnt hurt Colorado, Toronto is a play off team with Samsonov somehow, Carolina somehow were pretty dominant team even with Raanta on the net. Goaltending should be average and its enough. Goaltending shouldnt be New Jersey Devils 2023 level.

 

[Nocashstyle]

I have an eye on managing. Trading pick is a bad management if you are not getting player like Fiala under control.
1) top-15 of this draft is loaded by nhl talent. examples of this top-10 picks trades were before on the board. they were bad
2) this goalie can washed up after 2-3 years. or earlier.

You dont know how enough talents we have. We missed play off this year. Ottawa cant win the playoff spot at all - with Stuzle, Tkachuk, Norris, Sanderson, etc They traded away two picks for Chycrun and Debrinkat.- very talented players. Like very very talented - you can only dream to have this players in the trade for our 10OA. And still it didnt help and they wasted their assets.

Im not against trade this pick at all. But trading this pick for Ullmark or for Saros is bad management. Trading this pick for top 4 LHD is okay if this player will be under control for the next valuable period.


Yeah go to the market and do the job, Fitz. Free cap is free.

To be honest, it’s kind of contradictory you called my post factually just listing out the past decade of 10th overall picks “illiterate,” but then you point to one poorly managed team as evidence that trading a top 10 first round pick doesn’t work.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Just said this in the world championship thread but how many coaches thinking Holtz isn’t a very good hockey player before people here believe it?

I would very much like to trade him. Get someone with some speed in the bottom 6. That’s one thing I think we’re missing. Have lost McLeod, Wood, and Boqvist in recent times and think the speed they provided was very valuable (should not have gotten rid of Boqvist)

 

[theoptimist]

we literally have like $24 million in space this summer? What?

We have money available but does not mean we must obligate all of it. There are players needing new deals in a few years.

 

[Mgd31]

Just said this in the world championship thread but how many coaches thinking Holtz isn’t a very good hockey player before people believe it?

I would very much like to trade him. Get someone with some speed in the bottom 6

Its time to cut the cord this summer ala Ty Smith

 

[Rhodes 81]

Hopefully this lights a fire under him and he realizes it's not an issue of the NJ coaching staff not giving him a fair shake. But certainly not looking good for his development.

I thought Holtz played great for about 20 games this year. After that he was largely quite bad with a few good games mixed in. The "Ruff hates him" meme played out quickly, but it should be quite evident that Green didn't really give him a shot either, Fitz called him out publicly, and he's left off the world's roster for a team that isn't that deep. Fans like this player a lot more than actual hockey people do.

If he can make the same gains he displayed YoY from last year to this one, and then sustain them then he will be a good top 6 player. That's asking a lot though.

I was a fan of the prospect, a fan of picking him when we did, and up until half way through this year was very glad we kept him in the Meier trade. But he had too many bad games too often 3 years removed from the draft.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Its time to cut the cord this summer ala Ty Smith

I think it might’ve been time last summer before he tanked his value more.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

We have money available but does not mean we must obligate all of it. There are players needing new deals in a few years.

We should absolutely be a cap team. Which teams are out there "saving cap space" for future deals? That isnt a thing that happens with contenders.

We need to be using most if not all of this cap space. On the right players, of course, but the fact remains.

 

[JimEIV]

Thinking a 10th overall is just a trading chip assumes this team is close to being Cup competitive...

Nothing can be further from the truth.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I thought Holtz played great for about 20 games this year. After that he was largely quite bad with a few good games mixed in. The "Ruff hates him" meme played out quickly, but it should be quite evident that Green didn't really give him a shot either, Fitz called him out publicly, and he's left off the world's roster for a team that isn't that deep. Fans like this player a lot more than actual hockey people do.

If he can make the same gains he displayed YoY from last year to this one, and then sustain them then he will be a good top 6 player. That's asking a lot though.

Has he made that big of gains though? He’s still a shit skater, and can’t win a battle to save his life.

He’s got two things. Pretty good offensive mind and a good one dimensional shot that he can only get off in a few specific scenarios when it’s right in his wheelhouse. Thats it and that’s not enough to be an impactful NHL player let alone a good top 6 forward.

The reason hockey people don’t like that much is because that aren’t enamored with the one really nice shot he gets off every ten games

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Thinking a 10th overall is jus a trading chip assumes this team is close to being Cup competitive...

Nothing can be further from the truth.

with a few minor tweaks and the right coach, they absolutely can be a contender

 

[Mgd31]

I think it might’ve been time last summer before he tanked his value more.

Maybe but Holtz still has a year left on his ELC. Same as Ty and Ty was pretty awful for us 2021-2022.

I think its a similar situation so hopefully we could get some value like we did in Marino. Find a cap strapped team that needs to move a useful player.

 

[MartyOwns]

we complain about our goaltending all season, then nobody wants to do what it takes to solve the problem. it's the same thing every year lol.

there is literally nobody that's going to be available at 10 that would make a bigger impact than getting a decent (non-markstrom) goalie. it's like our window is open now, but there's a screen in the way called dogshit coaching and goaltending. we address both of those in a meaningful way this summer and we're making the playoffs easily next year. book it

 

[Guadana]

To be honest, it’s kind of contradictory you called my post factually just listing out the past decade of 10th overall picks “illiterate,” but then you point to one poorly managed team as evidence that trading a top 10 first round pick doesn’t work.

Nope. Because its the same team that made stupid pick by their 10OA. They are managing badly. Even after changings they hired Travis Green for 4 years. God, I hope they will work somehow, I like some of those players. Good scouts will find good player by 10th pick on this draft, good management will not trade 10OA for "need now".

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Maybe but Holtz still has a year left on his ELC. Same as Ty and Ty was pretty awful for us 2021-2022.

I think its a similar situation so hopefully we could get some value like we did in Marino. Find a cap strapped team that needs to move a useful player.

I don’t think we’ll get anywhere close to that value. Ty Smith’s value came from a good offensive season and overall numbers. And frankly I think Ty Smith just had more potential than Holtz does.

 

[JimEIV]

we complain about our goaltending all season, then nobody wants to do what it takes to solve the problem. it's the same thing every year lol.

there is literally nobody that's going to be available at 10 that would make a bigger impact than getting a decent (non-markstrom) goalie. it's like our window is open now, but there's a screen in the way called dogshit coaching and goaltending. we address both of those in a meaningful way this summer and we're making the playoffs easily next year. book it

Window is not open... that's the mistake.

We were tied with Calgary and Seattle in points this season. We were closer to the bottom 5 than we were to a playoff spot. And you believe the "window is open"?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Window is not open... that's the mistake.

We were tied with Calgary and Seattle in points this season. We were closer to the bottom 5 than we were to a playoff spot. And you believe the "window is open"?

and how many points did they have last year, Jim?

 

[devilsblood]

Blackwood was bad, Vanecek was bad somewhere in february and march and after. Georgiev doesnt hurt Colorado, Toronto is a play off team with Samsonov somehow, Carolina somehow were pretty dominant team even with Raanta on the net. Goaltending should be average and its enough. Goaltending shouldnt be New Jersey Devils 2023 level.

And I can post examples of teams with good goaltending who are currently up in their playoff series as well. Or bad teams who made the playoffs due in large part to good goaltendings (see the Isles). Situations vary from team to team.

But NJ has seen bad goal tending play a significant role in bad results in all but one of the last however many years.