Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[guitarguyvic]

The Leafs have scored 2 or fewer goals in 8 of their last 9 playoff games and 10 of their last 15. That has more to do with their struggles than a lack of toughness.

In hockey, it’s all related. You ain’t gonna score in the playoffs playing the game at regular season intensity.

 

[Oneiro]

The group of Mercer, Palat, Houla, etc. is the problem. They didn't carry their weight scoring wise or toughness wise this year.

I think you have 9M in two guys who should be stapled to the bottom six but are getting a lot of minutes with guys above their skill level.

 

[My3Sons]

Every time I've seen Robertson he's around the net. Granted I don't watch Dallas much but I caught a few games last year and this year and he seems to be always be between the hash marks and around the net....our players like the perimeter.

I don't know what you're definition of tough is but it seems different from mine.

I watch them plenty. They are the team in my tv market. He’s like Hischier . He’ll take a hit to make a play but nobody is worried about him hitting them. Heiskanen is the same way.

 

[JimEIV]

I watch them plenty. They are the team in my tv market. He’s like Hischier . He’ll take a hit to make a play but nobody is worried about him hitting them. Heiskanen is the same way.

Yeah this is what I'm talking about....you don't have hit someone or make anyone afraid of you....that is one way but fighting for real estate around the blue paint and getting into that scrum after the play to stand up for yourself and let the other team know that you can't be deterred and your going to keep fighting for that ice....that works

Ironically Tatar did some of that exactly last year... honestly first time that ever saw that from him....he was traditionally a perimeter player that made sacrifices last season....

It's weird, say "toughness"and everyone immediately goes Ryan Reeves or at best someone like Clutterbuck....No one ever thinks of someone like Garland (just cause that's who is on my screen now)

 

[Forge]

Oh, we are back to this song and dance again.

Cool. Will check back in on this thread in a few days

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Not a hitter, not a fighter, not someone who really goes into the dirty areas around the net with any frequency, never a guy to get into scrum protecting his goalie.....he does take a beating pretty good...so in some sort of masochistic way I guess that's a level of toughness

I'm truly convinced you don't even watch the same team that most everyone else does.

Saying Tomas Tatar goes to the dirty areas and has toughness but Nico Hischier does not

what a time.

 

[JimEIV]

Oh, we are back to this song and dance again.

Cool. Will check back in on this thread in a few days

They'll still be baby shit soft in a few days.... I'd wait til free agency for change.

 

[My3Sons]

Yeah this is what I'm talking about....you don't have hit someone or make anyone afraid of you....that is one way but fighting for real estate around the blue paint and getting into that scrum after the play to stand up for yourself and let the other team know that you can't be deterred and your going to keep fighting for that ice....that works

Ironically Tatar did some of that exactly last year... honestly first time that ever saw that from him....he was traditionally a perimeter player that made sacrifices last season....

It's weird, say "toughness"and everyone immediately goes Ryan Reeves or at best someone like Clutterbuck....No one ever thinks of someone like Garland (just cause that's who is on my screen now)

Robertson ain’t going to the blue paint as a rule. That’s Pavelski and Marchment and Benn and sometimes Hintz

 

[HughesCorporation]

Nonsense. Hischier takes a beating and delivers nothing in return to anyone ever. ...you can object to the word "soft"....you can come up with a new word if you like for a player that takes all the abuse and gives none in return.

How about Beta?

I object to your term

Not a hitter, not a fighter, not someone who really goes into the dirty areas around the net with any frequency, never a guy to get into scrum protecting his goalie.....he does take a beating pretty good...so in some sort of masochistic way I guess that's a level of toughness

he works behind the net which is just as painful if not more he doesnt shy away as youre proposing i dont see that

 

[JK3]

You guys never learn and still engage, it never fails, you deserve it.

 

[Oneiro]

Meier and Mercer don't gel with Hughes. So, what, you stick Bratt with 86 and try to find a heavy top 6 guy to retrieve the puck in the corners?

To me, so many problems start with Mercer being kind of meh. He's stuck at his rookie year level. You hope Sullivan can get more out of him...

 

[My3Sons]

Meier and Mercer don't gel with Hughes. So, what, you stick Bratt with 86 and try to find a heavy top 6 guy to retrieve the puck in the corners?

To me, so many problems start with Mercer being kind of meh. He's stuck at his rookie year level. You hope Sullivan can get more out of him...

As bad as his season was he scored 20 goals. Just stick him with Palat and Haula as a third line (move Nico down to 4C) and then if he improves you can move him up. I’d get Jack two new guys for the wing. Speedy and with hands. One who will create space and retrieve pucks.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Jason Robertson....Brady?

I'm not saying get them.... I'm saying that they are on similar contracts to Bratt and Nico, are tougher and produce well.

If we had Jason Robertson you would be complaining about his Toffoli-like speed.

It’s just so strange to just emphasize the negative on players that are so good and obviously significant net positives. You’re like a Nuggets fan complaining about Nikola Jokic’s defense.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

In hockey, it’s all related. You ain’t gonna score in the playoffs playing the game at regular season intensity.

It's not just intensity. The problem is that the playoffs are a fundamentally different game. There are some exceptions. Historically the pens would get the same kind of calls they would get in the regular season as would the rags. But mostly the entire rulebook changes. Illegal hits become legal. Interference, clutching, grabbing, etc. all goes from an auto penalty to just "good hard playoff hockey". Toronto has never been built for a slog fest. They are built to take advantage of the rulebook as it's written. And when the game is called that way, they are successful. But when they throw the rulebook out in the playoffs, it's a massive disadvantage for them.

I despise that the NHL does this. Rules are rules. Either call the game by the rules or write a new playoff rulebook so GMs can plan accordingly.

 

[JimEIV]

If we had Jason Robertson you would be complaining about his Toffoli-like speed.

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It’s just so strange to just emphasize the negative on players that are so good and obviously significant net positives. You’re like a Nuggets fan complaining about Nikola Jokic’s defense.

He's an excellent player.... I've been saying that 3+ years.... he's just very soft. And our team as collective is extremely soft and easy play against...

A young inexperienced defense and extremely soft team with a lot of forwards that don't really care much about defense or care for body contact is why there were only 7 teams in the entire league that were worse than us... injuries and goaltending are a distraction from looking at how bad this team really is.

 

[JimEIV]

That was for Nashville in the wrong thread.

 

[Forge]

They'll still be baby shit soft in a few days.... I'd wait til free agency for change.

I'm sure you'll still find something to non-stop bitch about

 

[JimEIV]

I'm sure you'll still find something to non-stop bitch about

Well yeah...when you're basically tied for the 7th worst team with Seattle and Calgary there's a lot to bitch about.

You want me to make believe that the season "wasn't that bad"?

 

[devilsblood]

lol. It refers to the stars of the team who have not 'taken less'.

But they "wanted to win in Toronto", is maxing out they way to achieve that?

They did not sign to similar contracts. Tavares's contract was longer.

In terms of AAV they are very similar.

This is a classic argument from you. It is the definition of a goalpost shift.

If Fitz signed Hamilton for $11, would Jack have settled at $8?

Bratt apparently wanted more, but levels were in place. He stayed within the teams structure.

Holik was a guy who apparently couldn't be bothered to show up in 98. He's weak, is my point. He won a title as a 4th line center in 95 and then when he's relied on for more, he can't do anything.

You ignore the rest of Holik's career.

Not what was being argued. This is a hammer seeing a nail. Nico has gotten injured a fair amount in his career, some of which is his fault and some of which isn't. Him having his face broken by a slapshot qualifies to me as 'not his fault'. Likewise, players can fall ill for reasons out of their control and miss games/play worse as a result. It is one of the pathological things here and among sports fans in general to not acknowledge this reality by citing a game from 30 years ago where one guy played well when sick. Nobody talks about the Ed Belfour flu game.

Belfour was a good player, won a cup. Not a Jordan level player, but way more success then Matthews and company thus far.

It's an invented narrative when a guy who doesn't miss games for injury happens to miss games for injury during the playoffs. Not winning is one thing, tying this injury into some larger narrative is invention.

It's not about the injury, it's about finding ways to lose in the playoffs. Forest through the trees.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

He's an excellent player.... I've been saying that 3+ years.... he's just very soft. And our team as collective is extremely soft and easy play against...

A young inexperienced defense and extremely soft team with a lot of forwards that don't really care much about defense or care for body contact is why there were only 7 teams in the entire league that were worse than us... injuries and goaltending are a distraction from looking at how bad this team really is.

If you sub out Bratt for Brady we probably have a couple fewer points this season.

We were shit this year because a few of our top players were out due to injury or shit due to injury. That’s just how it is. That’s enough engaging in this for one sitting.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

this championing of Brady Tkachuk is so weird considering he has played literally 0 playoff games in his career.

And if your response to that is "well the rest of his team isn't good enough", hmmmmmmmmmm maybe think about what you're saying for a second!

 

[theoptimist]

The group of Mercer, Palat, Houla, etc. is the problem. They didn't carry their weight scoring wise or toughness wise this year.

I think you have 9M in two guys who should be stapled to the bottom six but are getting a lot of minutes with guys above their skill level.

I’m not worried about Mercer or Haula, just Palat.

 

[My3Sons]

He's an excellent player.... I've been saying that 3+ years.... he's just very soft. And our team as collective is extremely soft and easy play against...

A young inexperienced defense and extremely soft team with a lot of forwards that don't really care much about defense or care for body contact is why there were only 7 teams in the entire league that were worse than us... injuries and goaltending are a distraction from looking at how bad this team really is.

The same core was great the prior year. They need help but the small guys in the top six aren’t thr problem.

 

[JimEIV]

If you sub out Bratt for Brady we probably have a couple fewer points this season.

We were shit this year because a few of our top players were out due to injury or shit due to injury. That’s just how it is. That’s enough engaging in this for one sitting.

Oh I don't think one player fixes the softness issue...3 or 4 are needed. and I don't think anything but time and growth from Nemec and Luke fixes our defensive problems.

I'm mad because I really think next year is going to be another rough year.

1. I don't think it's possible to get the help we need in one off season

2. I don't think our defenders will be where we need them to be next season

3. I think we are getting a new coach and a new system....I think it's going to be at least a half a year of ups and downs with a new coach and a young defense trying to figure out a new system...

I think this season set us back more than anyone would like to admit....

And I would love to be wrong.... maybe Fitz makes magic this off season? But it seems like a huge mountain to climb in front of us.

 

[devilsblood]

I’m not worried about Mercer or Haula, just Palat.

I'm not worried about Palat. Just don't expect much in terms of regular season production from him.

Mercer needs to get stronger.