Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

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TrufleShufle

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Aug 31, 2012
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I've been wondering...what happens if McLeod is found not guilty?
If it is as simple as "not guilty" with no other other new info, I'd imagine that wouldn't be good enough. People's minds are made up already, some insane information that wasn't known previously would have to come out for most people to even considered welcoming him back to the NHL.
 

NjdevilfanJim

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A core forward group of Nico Bratt Jack and Timo is soft as butter.

"Sprinkling " players in isn't going to do shit because those soft players will continue to get 60+% of the total ice time.
Not true at all Meier is a tank when healthy and Nico plays full sheet goes to the front of the net ....I get he's not a bruiser and I feel we need guys that are tougher to play against but there is other ways of being tough to play against and Hughes and Bratt are good examples of that their skill and skating is elite and that alone makes them a tough out.....By that comment which one are you trading and who goes in their place
 

njdevils1982

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If it is as simple as "not guilty" with no other other new info, I'd imagine that wouldn't be good enough. People's minds are made up already, some insane information that wasn't known previously would have to come out for most people to even considered welcoming him back to the NHL.


he can go light up the K with reid f***ing boucher
 

ZYXWVUT

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I am a firm believer in pairs, but I disagree with the ones you propose. I think the pairs should be Nico-Meier and Jack-Bratt.

People always think of Jack as a playmaker, but he's developed into a volume shooter. He and Timo just don't work that well together IMO. I'd put in a grittier player with the pair. Someone like Palat or Mercer.

Conversely, I feel Nico is underrated as a playmaker and benefits from a volume shooter like Timo on his line. I'd like to add a playmaking winger to go with the pair.

Another option, if you want to try for 3 balanced scoring lines, is to pair Timo-Bratt with another center. That's presuming Jack is talented enough to drive his line with crap linemates and Nico is used in a more shutdown role, maybe with Palat and Mercer.

My problem here is that I have no idea where to put Holtz. He wouldn't be good enough defensively for the Nico line, and too soft for the Hughes line. He just doesn't seem like a fit anywhere right now.
I'm just big on Hischier/Bratt & how they compliment one another. Even moreso than Hughes/Bratt, which I am not a huge fan of anymore TBH.

Holtz for Nic Roy, who says no?
 
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My3Sons

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The Timo, Bratt and Nico stretch @My3Sons is celebrating and wants to talk about was some of worst losing of the entire season.

It was really proof that without Jack firing on all cylinders this team goes nowhere.
It's one line. They scored. They held up reasonably well against the other team's best players. They they play about 1/3 of the game at most and apparently both Bratt and Meier were hurt while doing it. Don't make it out to be more than it is. I'm saying it's one stable line to start with that has worked. Please show me where I said they saved the season or won any games by themselves? Show me the "celebration". They as a unit played well in my view. Do you think they sucked? Your logic here is flawed in my view. Everything failed this season so just sell off the players and fold the team. It's proof they all suck and are losers. I don't disagree that the team needs a healthy Jack to have success but a healthy lineup in general was missing this season.
 

Brodeur

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Mike Rupp seems to be beating the Tkachuk to NJ drumm. He was beating the Meier to NJ drumm (happened) and the Markstrom to NJ drumm (deal was in place before ownership nixed it). I think he wouldn't be saying something unless he had some sort of inside information that he knows its a possibility.

I think a 3rd team could maybe get involved with the 10th overall and Casey going there, and they send a player to Ottawa.

If the Devils put together a package of Holtz +10th overall + Casey, that is a type of package that you RARELY ever see in NHL trades. That is an elite package of youth.



Timo to New Jersey made more sense given our prospects, cap space, and San Jose's situation at the time. It wasn't that original an idea. I don't mind Rupp as an analyst, but there are segments where they're just filling airtime. I'm still waiting on Hellebuyck to become a Devil (or Scheifele to the Bruins, Nylander to the Ducks) as per this Rupp suggestion.

You might be overestimating Holtz's value at this point. Things tend to get murky 4-5 years after a guy's been drafted. Thinner line between "elite" youth and prospect who hasn't gotten over the hump. Ie, certain Edmonton fans still pitching Philip Broberg as a top prospect this year. I hope Holtz turns a corner but so far he's been tracking similarly to Filip Zadina.

THN's Future Watch isn't perfect, but maybe worth pointing out that Casey was listed as the #93 prospect league wide. I'd have him a little higher but I try not to get lost in the numbers. But also just a reminder that he's not exactly a slam dunk blue chip prospect.

Maybe not exactly the same, but would you trade Nico for an "elite" package of youth like Jack Quinn, Isak Rosen, and 11th overall? Or Marco Rossi, Liam Ohgren, and 13th overall? Or William Eklund, Henry Thrun, and 14th overall?
 
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forceten

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If it is as simple as "not guilty" with no other other new info, I'd imagine that wouldn't be good enough. People's minds are made up already, some insane information that wasn't known previously would have to come out for most people to even considered welcoming him back to the NHL.

Plus, he has two counts against him, and I'm wondering if that's because the main count is less likely to stick as he and she had consensual relations initially. He then contacted others, which I think is the second count. He may end up with less of a penalty if that second count is the only one that sticks, but to me, it's enough to not want him near the team. Integrity and such matters. Treating humans like humans matters.
 

TrufleShufle

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Plus, he has two counts against him, and I'm wondering if that's because the main count is less likely to stick as he and she had consensual relations initially. He then contacted others, which I think is the second count. He may end up with less of a penalty if that second count is the only one that sticks, but to me, it's enough to not want him near the team. Integrity and such matters. Treating humans like humans matters.
If anything at all sticks he will be done IMO. Even full not guilty without any groundbreaking new info would still not be good enough.
 
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JimEIV

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It's one line. They scored. They held up reasonably well against the other team's best players. They they play about 1/3 of the game at most and apparently both Bratt and Meier were hurt while doing it. Don't make it out to be more than it is. I'm saying it's one stable line to start with that has worked. Please show me where I said they saved the season or won any games by themselves? Show me the "celebration". They as a unit played well in my view. Do you think they sucked? Your logic here is flawed in my view. Everything failed this season so just sell off the players and fold the team. It's proof they all suck and are losers. I don't disagree that the team needs a healthy Jack to have success but a healthy lineup in general was missing this season.
A few pages ago you were saying that there was no situation that they couldn't handle and they were great.

I don't think they sucked I think they were just there...no matter how bad a team is there are still going to be guys that get points... we've celebrated a lot guys that got their PPG stretch on horrific teams....and Bratt has brought success to every line he's ever played on over multiple years...he even made Johnsson look like a hockey player. But it's all empty calories when you're the 10th worst team in the league. It's really as meaningless when we were celebrating two 30 goal scores in 2017 with Henrique and Palmieri....shit teams still score


And the injury thing I feel has gotten a little blown out of proportion...as far as forwards are concerned we got complete health from Bratt and Toffoli while he was here and Jack, Nico and Timo played in 82% of the games this season. Those 3 gave us 202 games out of a potential 246.

Yeah they weren't full health for all those games but they were here ....if that's our margin between decent and bottom 10 team in the league this is not a good team.... especially when you consider how bad all the other teams in front of us were....we should have been able to sleep walk into the playoffs injuries and all..but there is a serious lack of will be determination in this team.
 

NjDevsRR

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I can't say i do 'member that
IMG_4891.jpeg
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

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Again, no one has said this was a good team overall this year. They clearly were not.

However, that doesn't mean that various players did not have good to very good seasons. To just poo-poo them as "who cares the team didn't win" is just not reality. Sometimes good players are on not good teams. Sometimes not good players are on good teams.
 

ZYXWVUT

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I've mentioned this before, but I'm still kind of the opinion that if VGK moves a center, its going to be Wild Bill.
If they do move Roy, I think that could be a deal that makes sense for them. Considering they have quite a few pending UFAs and who knows who they will bring back. Plus others coming up next season too. They get a young cost-controlled scoring winger with another season on ELC. Holtz would prob do well there if they put him next to a 2WC like Karlsson TBH. I think I would consider that move from an NJ standpoint for sure. But to your point about Karlsson maybe being the guy who ends up moving, some have suggested Shea Theodore if they look ahead & don't think they can extend him a year from now. Still holding out hope they see Roy as a luxury 4C & can spend that money better in surrounding their top three centers or simply creating flexibility.
 

Stephen Gionta

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Jun 15, 2015
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Timo to New Jersey made more sense given our prospects, cap space, and San Jose's situation at the time. It wasn't that original an idea. I don't mind Rupp as an analyst, but there are segments where they're just filling airtime. I'm still waiting on Hellebuyck to become a Devil (or Scheifele to the Bruins, Nylander to the Ducks) as per this Rupp suggestion.

You might be overestimating Holtz's value at this point. Things tend to get murky 4-5 years after a guy's been drafted. Thinner line between "elite" youth and prospect who hasn't gotten over the hump. Ie, certain Edmonton fans still pitching Philip Broberg as a top prospect this year. I hope Holtz turns a corner but so far he's been tracking similarly to Filip Zadina.

THN's Future Watch isn't perfect, but maybe worth pointing out that Casey was listed as the #93 prospect league wide. I'd have him a little higher but I try not to get lost in the numbers. But also just a reminder that he's not exactly a slam dunk blue chip prospect.

Maybe not exactly the same, but would you trade Nico for an "elite" package of youth like Jack Quinn, Isak Rosen, and 11th overall? Or Marco Rossi, Liam Ohgren, and 13th overall? Or William Eklund, Henry Thrun, and 14th overall?


If Nico wanted out and the Devils were trending in a different direction as a team etc. then yeah those are packages you'd have to consider. But for where the Devils are at right now, and Hischier being happy here, no doesn't make sense.

On Rupp - yes, but he literally has brought up Tkachuk out of the blue, not for a time filling segment.

On Casey - He is a top 10, maybe top 5, defenseman prospect in the NHL. (Guys who have played NHL games such as Edvinsson/Nemec/Hughes/Korchinski do not count)
 
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Brodeur

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If Nico wanted out and the Devils were trending in a different direction as a team etc. then yeah those are packages you'd have to consider. But for where the Devils are at right now, and Hischier being happy here, no doesn't make sense.

That was kinda my point, that wouldn't make sense of us. Don't see how it makes sense for Ottawa to deal their productive captain for a pupu platter either.
 
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Unknown Caller

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Again, no one has said this was a good team overall this year. They clearly were not.

However, that doesn't mean that various players did not have good to very good seasons. To just poo-poo them as "who cares the team didn't win" is just not reality. Sometimes good players are on not good teams. Sometimes not good players are on good teams.
Sometimes good teams have a million injuries and horrible goaltending.
 

My3Sons

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A few pages ago you were saying that there was no situation that they couldn't handle and they were great.

I don't think they sucked I think they were just there...no matter how bad a team is there are still going to be guys that get points... we've celebrated a lot guys that got their PPG stretch on horrific teams....and Bratt has brought success to every line he's ever played on over multiple years...he even made Johnsson look like a hockey player. But it's all empty calories when you're the 10th worst team in the league. It's really as meaningless when we were celebrating two 30 goal scores in 2017 with Henrique and Palmieri....shit teams still score


And the injury thing I feel has gotten a little blown out of proportion...as far as forwards are concerned we got complete health from Bratt and Toffoli while he was here and Jack, Nico and Timo played in 82% of the games this season. Those 3 gave us 202 games out of a potential 246.

Yeah they weren't full health for all those games but they were here ....if that's our margin between decent and bottom 10 team in the league this is not a good team.... especially when you consider how bad all the other teams in front of us were....we should have been able to sleep walk into the playoffs injuries and all..but there is a serious lack of will be determination in this team.
Yes, they could play against the best players on the other team and they did a good job. It's an opinion, not some sort of consensus group think. Don't oversell that. One person is not a celebration. It's one line it's a start. The bottom six of Tierney, broken Nosek, Halonen, broken Bastian, and whoever else still play about 20-22 minutes per game and stink. On what planet was this team going to win with that and broken Hughes making up about 40 minutes of the game. But sure, take one line that worked in awful circumstances and use that to make some point that they actually stink because of other factors. You'd be a good ambulance chaser if you decide to come out of retirement. That's the way they argue. it works well depending upon the audience.
 

NjDevsRR

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Literally every single damn thing had to go wrong with this team to miss the playoffs

- injuries
- goaltending
- coaching
- McLeod

One/two of those things being better would get them into the postseason.

Now, add this core with better goaltending, a new coach who hopefully gives them new life, better complimentary pieces and a normal injury season. Them the NHL should be on notice for a resurgent Devils team.

This is Toms single most important year in his professional career.
 

JimEIV

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Yes, they could play against the best players on the other team and they did a good job. It's an opinion, not some sort of consensus group think. Don't oversell that. One person is not a celebration. It's one line it's a start. The bottom six of Tierney, broken Nosek, Halonen, broken Bastian, and whoever else still play about 20-22 minutes per game and stink. On what planet was this team going to win with that and broken Hughes making up about 40 minutes of the game. But sure, take one line that worked in awful circumstances and use that to make some point that they actually stink because of other factors. You'd be a good ambulance chaser if you decide to come out of retirement. That's the way they argue. it works well depending upon the audience.
You're looking for positives in the face of utter disaster...good for you on being positive....but the actual results don't match the positivity.
 
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