Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[Guadana]

I also want a 2nd pair d-man, but I can live with Sieg's if need be (also think if we acquire a 2nd pair d-man, we shed Sieg's contract in the process thus money saved). I'd have to see who the add is and weigh that against acquiring a guy like Debrusk.

3rd line center holds higher priority, but yeah, we can add both. (I don't completely rule out, nor hate, Haula as 3rd center next year).

4th liners should be pretty cheap.

Can't afford a 2/3C (Cirelli, Stephenson, etc.) and $6M winger if we're looking to find top-4 LHD. We can find cheaper alternatives that bring similar game style to DeBrusk. Noesen, at times, played in Canes top-6. A cheaper alternative (also like Ardvisson) would give breathing room for Mercer to develop full time into top-6 player.

I would also give Palat every opportunity in the top-6 to make use of his skill (and $6M contract).

Im not a fan of Stephenson. He will be overpaid. I like Noesen and other options for bottom like Trenin, Blackwell, Joshua etc. But Debrusk would be good top-6 winger.

Salary cap will be bigger, so I dont see a problem to give DeBrusk 6 mil, find second pair D for 4-6.5 mil, find goalie for 2-4.5 mil and bridge Mercer.

Like devilsblood said we can send Haula to the third line and use Debrusk on the wing with Jack. We can sign Henrique for 3.5, , Debrusk for 6, sign Lankinen for 3.5-4.5 and Mercer on the bridge deal for 3.5.

 

[devilsblood]

Pain in the ass with management is well documented from when he demanded a trade maybe three years back and then sat in the press box (this part I remember less, but he was sat) for a spell. Admittedly this can also have been managements fault.

In the dressing room, I believe he has that reputation. But I have no special inside knowledge. Our GM and staff are however well placed to know whether this is warranted or not. The NHL is a fishbowl and we have a few people too who’ve passed through that dressing room.

Personally, my opinion only and everyone here is entitled to theirs of course, I think he’s highly over rated at this point. Watching the Bruins a great deal and over years, he simply disappears for games on end. Has much less impact than expected. I think they are very disappointed in the pick. But that was a horrible draft for them, where they had three relatively high first rounders, all of which misfired to some extent. Lauzon and another D, maybe ? And Debrusk as the third is maybe scape goated over that too.

I think guys who are goal heavy will go on streaks where they seem to dissappear, but I think his other stats show a guy who is pretty consistent.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Again, we have literally no idea how any player is in the locker room. No one at all should be speculating about that nonsense.

and I'm not sure what his draft slot has anything to do with his play 9 years into his career.

“No one here should be speculating about that nonsense” ????

Hahaha

 

[devilsblood]

“No one here should be speculating about that nonsense” ????

Hahaha

Good ole ZBC, he does have a way about him.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

“No one here should be speculating about that nonsense” ????

Hahaha

speculating on things that happen in the locker room? Yeah, I think we shouldn't be doing that. Literally not one person here has any idea.

But you do you homie if thats what you want to do. Go wild!

 

[devilsblood]

Im not a fan of Stephenson. He will be overpaid. I like Noesen and other options for bottom like Trenin, Blackwell, Joshua etc. But Debrusk would be good top-6 winger.

Salary cap will be bigger, so I dont see a problem to give DeBrusk 6 mil, find second pair D for 4-6.5 mil, find goalie for 2-4.5 mil and bridge Mercer.

Like devilsblood said we can send Haula to the third line and use Debrusk on the wing with Jack. We can sign Henrique for 3.5, , Debrusk for 6, sign Lankinen for 3.5-4.5 and Mercer on the bridge deal for 3.5.

To this point, I'm wary of overpaying any player, whether it stephenson, or Debrusk, or whomever.

And I know we'd probably have to overpay for any of the higher end UFA's, and I'm not saying we shouldn't spend on either guy, but given some of the contracts we now, have, and some of the contracts upcoming, we have to pick our spots a bit.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Stopping people on the internet from speculating about things they don't have any real info on would be like KFC staying open but no longer serving any chicken.

 

[Guadana]

To this point, I'm wary of overpaying any player, whether it stephenson, or Debrusk, or whomever.

And I know we'd probably have to overpay for any of the higher end UFA's, and I'm not saying we shouldn't spend on either guy, but given some of the contracts we now, have, and some of the contracts upcoming, we have to pick our spots a bit.

I would prefer younger player with more years under the belt.

 

[theoptimist]

First, Benn put up 60 points this year and 78 with 33 goals last year so I’m not sure him playing on the 3rd line matters.

Again, in no world should the amount he’s making have even the slightest impact on where in the lineup he plays. Zero. It’s a sunk cost, you’re paying him 6M a year no matter what. If he’s only a 4th line calibre player that’s where he should play because it’s what’s best for the team.

There are many factors that go into lineup decisions and I’m just unaware and don’t have the expertise. But it would upset me if the guy we signed to $6M is a third/fourth line fixture. I’d like to extract as many miles from the player for the price we’re paying him. His contract impacts the rest of our lineup. He’s worth $4M and the additional $2M is significant.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Stopping people on the internet from speculating about things they don't have any real info on would be like KFC staying open but no longer serving any chicken.

We can debate player A vs player B vs player C until the cows come home. Counting stats, advanced stats, highlight reels, etc. etc. At least you can back up what you're talking about, and we usually can "agree to disagree".

Debating whether or not a player is a "locker room problem"? Yeah, that is not nearly the same thing.

Sure, anyone is allowed to post whatever they want in this thread (and anywhere on the internet), just as people are allowed to think that posting about what happens in a locker room is ridiculous. You know, the entire point of a message board?

There are many factors that go into lineup decisions and I’m just unaware and don’t have the expertise. But it would upset me if the guy we signed to $6M is a third/fourth line fixture. I’d like to extract as many miles from the player for the price we’re paying him. His contract impacts the rest of our lineup. He’s worth $4M and the additional $2M is significant.

Pretend Jack Hughes makes $10million and Palat makes $4million

boom problem solved!

 

[theoptimist]

Im not a fan of Stephenson. He will be overpaid. I like Noesen and other options for bottom like Trenin, Blackwell, Joshua etc. But Debrusk would be good top-6 winger.

Salary cap will be bigger, so I dont see a problem to give DeBrusk 6 mil, find second pair D for 4-6.5 mil, find goalie for 2-4.5 mil and bridge Mercer.

Like devilsblood said we can send Haula to the third line and use Debrusk on the wing with Jack. We can sign Henrique for 3.5, , Debrusk for 6, sign Lankinen for 3.5-4.5 and Mercer on the bridge deal for 3.5.

I don’t mind Henrique (but if age scares us about certain players, then it’s only fair it applies here). I like your lineup.

We can debate player A vs player B vs player C until the cows come home. Counting stats, advanced stats, highlight reels, etc. etc. At least you can back up what you're talking about, and we usually can "agree to disagree".

Debating whether or not a player is a "locker room problem"? Yeah, that is not nearly the same thing.

Sure, anyone is allowed to post whatever they want in this thread (and anywhere on the internet), just as people are allowed to think that posting about what happens in a locker room is ridiculous. You know, the entire point of a message board?



Pretend Jack Hughes makes $10million and Palat makes $4million

boom problem solved!

MM is still here, what are you paying him? Many scoffed about paying him $4M on a long term deal (he was worth that). I’d take the $4M and the reframing of Palat contract (worth $2M) and pay a free agent center $6M. Is this fair?

 

[TrufleShufle]

We can debate player A vs player B vs player C until the cows come home. Counting stats, advanced stats, highlight reels, etc. etc. At least you can back up what you're talking about, and we usually can "agree to disagree".

Debating whether or not a player is a "locker room problem"? Yeah, that is not nearly the same thing.

Sure, anyone is allowed to post whatever they want in this thread (and anywhere on the internet), just as people are allowed to think that posting about what happens in a locker room is ridiculous. You know, the entire point of a message board?

Dude, trust me, we are in complete agreement on this, like all the hate that Tony Deangelo got, I'm sure we can both agree people just forming opinions about players with out actually truly knowing the facts is just insane. Could he be a bad guy? Absolutely, but we shouldn't as fans speculate and speak our opinions about it.

We are aligned on this issue.

 

[devilsblood]

I would prefer younger player with more years under the belt.

Agree, with the added wrinkle of contract longevity. For instance I may prefer Stephenson at 4 years vs Debrusk at 8.

But Stephenson seemed to have a really bad year in terms of on ice this year(ZBC may have been better off looking at just this year) 46% cf/xGF%, and his points dropped off too. Doesn't look like he was used heavily defensively either. Was he banged up? I dunno, but yeah, I don't think I'd sign any 30 year old coming off a season like that.

 

[devilsblood]

Dude, trust me, we are in complete agreement on this, like all the hate that Tony Deangelo got, I'm sure we can both agree people just forming opinions about players with out actually truly knowing the facts is just insane. Could he be a bad guy? Absolutely, but we shouldn't as fans speculate and speak our opinions about it.

We are aligned on this issue.

I don't know if it's as simple as all that.

Some fans here wanted no part of Toews for "locker room" issues. Queneville too really. Babcock.

But there does need to be some evidence for the argument to have any merit. What do we really know about Debrusk beyond contract stuff from a couple years ago?

 

[AfroThunder396]

Scott Stevens signed an offer sheet to go back to St. Louis, was he a locker room issue for wanting out?

Was Joe Sakic a locker room issue when he accepted an offer sheet with the Rangers?

If a player wants to leave and play somewhere else, they have every right to do so. Most players have a very short career and few opportunities to exert control over it. Most players that get draft can't self-determine for 7 years. That's f***ed up. How many promising careers have been squandered because a good player got drafted by an incompetent team who jerked them around for a decade? Prior to this year, McDavid was perilously close to that.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

There are many factors that go into lineup decisions and I’m just unaware and don’t have the expertise. But it would upset me if the guy we signed to $6M is a third/fourth line fixture. I’d like to extract as many miles from the player for the price we’re paying him. His contract impacts the rest of our lineup. He’s worth $4M and the additional $2M is significant.

This is like business or any kind of decision making 101 man. You’re paying the 6M no matter what. Any decision should be made without that even being considered. It’s a common mistake but makes absolutely zero logical sense for it to be a factor.

 

[Guttersniped]

if the choice is between Debrusk and Stephenson I choose Debrusk 1000000000000% of the time. He is simply a better player and is 3 years younger.

I like Cirelli, what assets are you giving up to get him? He is also the same type of player production wise that Debrusk is. In fact, Debrusk has like 15 more points over the last 3 years.

Debrusk was underwhelming until the last two seasons.

It would be nice to add an LW but adding a shutdown 3C with pop would be transformative.

We could have a functional 3rd line with Cirelli, allow Nico’s line to have more offensive focus.

“Same type of player production wise” except he isn’t a complimentary winger.

Edit: clarified which player was being discussed

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Debrusk was underwhelming until the last two seasons.

It would be nice to add an LW but adding a shutdown 3C with pop would be transformative.

We could have a functional 3rd line, allow Nico’s line to have more offensive focus.

“Same type of player production wise” except he isn’t a complimentary winger.

I think that Stephenson's shutdown abilities are overstated. His defensive numbers really aren't that good.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I don't know if it's as simple as all that.

Some fans here wanted no part of Toews for "locker room" issues. Queneville too really. Babcock.

But there does need to be some evidence for the argument to have any merit. What do we really know about Debrusk beyond contract stuff from a couple years ago?

Sure for an argument or statement to have any merit, there should be more info. But if someone was to say Haula was locker room cancer, it wouldn't matter to me in the slightest, because unless they presented some evidence to back it up I can very easily, like most people, just not believe it. It's not like someone is saying the stock market is going to crash tomorrow, take all your money out, in which case it would be important to know if they were giving solid info. There is no need to know if that info is true or not, so it's perfectly ok to ignore it and not get worked up about it. I know I'm not alone on this, but people being wrong on the internet does not scare or make me upset.

 

[Guttersniped]

For our team at least, the difference between top 6, and the 3rd line, is not so much toi, but quality of team mates. I expect that is pretty common around the league as well.

I do think the Devils have wanted to become more of a top 9 team, Fitz said as much last offseason, but we haven't been able to put together a consistent 3rd line(last year obviously be affected by injuries).

And this could be an argument for putting Palat, or Stephenson, or Debrusk on the 3rd line. Last year we tried Meier a bunch on that 3rd line, but again, even though he was playing, he was banged up. Could we see Meier there again in upcoming season, I imagine this board would be unsettled if we do.

If you want any production from Debrusk you have to play him in the top 6. We would be signing him for that.

Historically not playing him with the teams better players would tank his production, he’s a complimentary winger.

I think that Stephenson's shutdown abilities are overstated. His defensive numbers really aren't that good.

I meant Cirelli, you discussed him too.

 

[longislanddevil]

Would you guys have any interest in signing UFA Chris Tanev? He had a great season and brings the kind of grit/toughess that our blue line currently lacks. Tanev seems to be aging really well. Signing him would make Marino, Bahl and Siegs more expendable. If a deal is consummated with Calgary, I have this feeling that Bahl will be included. Thoughts?

 

[devilsblood]

There are many factors that go into lineup decisions and I’m just unaware and don’t have the expertise. But it would upset me if the guy we signed to $6M is a third/fourth line fixture. I’d like to extract as many miles from the player for the price we’re paying him. His contract impacts the rest of our lineup. He’s worth $4M and the additional $2M is significant.

This is like business or any kind of decision making 101 man. You’re paying the 6M no matter what. Any decision should be made without that even being considered. It’s a common mistake but makes absolutely zero logical sense for it to be a factor.

Kind of interesting in that, when we signed Palat, we were likely never going to use him on PP1, the PK, and probably not in the top 6 for much of the contract.

We paid that premium for his veteran presence and playoff experience.

 

[devilsblood]

Would you guys have any interest in signing UFA Chris Tanev? He had a great season and brings the kind of grit/toughess that our blue line currently lacks. Tanev seems to be aging really well. Signing him would make Marino, Bahl and Siegs more expendable. If a deal is consummated with Calgary, I have this feeling that Bahl will be included. Thoughts?

He's a righty, not sure if he's played much on the left, but I doubt we'd target him and put him on his off hand.

 

[devilsblood]

Debrusk was underwhelming until the last two seasons.

It would be nice to add an LW but adding a shutdown 3C with pop would be transformative.

We could have a functional 3rd line with Cirelli, allow Nico’s line to have more offensive focus.

“Same type of player production wise” except he isn’t a complimentary winger.

Edit: clarified which player was being discussed

He had two 25 goal season prior to 22-23.

He's been very consistent actually. This past season looks a lot like his rookie season.

Him ever being considered underwhelming is probably tied to his draft position.

 

[Alex NJD]

I swear we had a very similar Stephenson conversation in the last thread like a month ago including excerpts from the Vegas board

-Significant decline this year in production, eye test, and analytics
-Completely invisible in the playoffs this year
-He's done a great job as a complimentary guy on a line w Eichel and Stone but performs significantly worse with other linemates
-A lot of Vegas fans want to see him walk and are scared of potentially resigning him, he may already be declining
-Apparently Stephenson turned down a longer term, lower AAV extension, he's been underpaid for a while and this is his likely last chance to cash out

I don't think he's a bad player but there are a ton of red flags with him. We already have Palat who's contract gets brought up every 3 days on here but Palat at 32 had a much better playoffs then Stephenson did at 30. Imagine this place if we had lost to the Rags in 7 and Palat had 1 point.