Detroit Redwings Downfall

[FMichael]

Yes, it’s criminal how far they fell, especially in 2019-20. Still not the only way to accumulate talent.

While true - signing UFAs isn’t exactly a given considering who wants to play for a team in rebuilding mode? Latest rumor is/was Stamkos was interested in Detroit, but apparently Nashville offered and extra season…So we have Kane and Tarasenko (meh signings).

As for trades - outside of DeBrincat and dumping Walman - Yzerman doesn’t appear willing right now to do anything considering he’d rather keep our prospects and picks…Unless something unexpected happens I get the impression he’ll stand pat - unless it’s the trade deadline and we’re outta the picture then I can see some vets like Kane being moved.

My #1 beef with Yzerman - what did/does he see in Lalonde??!!

 

[Pavels Dog]

It's kind of funny how Detroit might have the best and worst defensive pairings in the NHL this season.

 

[Peasy]

Raymonds a stud thats for sure

 

[TKB]

Better question - why do you think it’s acceptable for one of the League’s premier franchises to have been outside of the playoffs for this long with no clear goal of when to get back, much less contend for a title?



Actually I don’t think he should be fired yet (as opposed to Lalonde, who never should have been retained for this season and should have been fired after the losses to the Ducks and Sharks last week). But if he continues to fail to produce meaningful results, then yes, he should be on the hot seat and have more pressure applied to accelerate this process.

Like I said, it’s a results-oriented business, and he’s not delivered meaningful results. (After six years, the “but they’ve improved their point total” excuse doesn’t fly anymore).

Oh, and you can drop the lazy “oh you think you could do better???” nonsense. I’ve never directed a film but I’m allowed to go to the movies and say what I paid to watch stunk.


Feel free to continue when you can write above the level of a blind second grader.

Better question - why do you think it’s acceptable for one of the League’s premier franchises to have been outside of the playoffs for this long with no clear goal of when to get back, much less contend for a title?



Actually I don’t think he should be fired yet (as opposed to Lalonde, who never should have been retained for this season and should have been fired after the losses to the Ducks and Sharks last week). But if he continues to fail to produce meaningful results, then yes, he should be on the hot seat and have more pressure applied to accelerate this process.

Like I said, it’s a results-oriented business, and he’s not delivered meaningful results. (After six years, the “but they’ve improved their point total” excuse doesn’t fly anymore).

Oh, and you can drop the lazy “oh you think you could do better???” nonsense. I’ve never directed a film but I’m allowed to go to the movies and say what I paid to watch stunk.


Feel free to continue when you can write above the level of a blind second grader.

The goal for "one of the league's premiere franchises" should be higher than just loading up to make the playoffs or short term splash.

SY is looking to build a foundation for extended success from which two perhaps three windows for serious SC contention can open. You can disagree with the approach but that is what they are trying to do, and it takes time. A lot of time.

In that context, the (continued) development of key prospects, is far more important to the long term success of the team than making the playoffs this year. Establishing and maintain a sustainable salary (and term) structure is also critical to the long run plan.

How is it lazy to ask how you think Jimmy D. and Chris I should proceed? I (and others) have made numerous posts explaining or backing up our positions. Of course you are free to disagree.

You can in fact go the movies without being a director and proclaim the movie stinks, but if you don't back it up with any analysis or offer alternatives - it is just a rant and not worthy of further discussion.

 

[deca guard]

Aside from your woeful grammar, the fact that you think anyone who isn’t okay with missing the playoffs for the 6th straight year while holding out blind faith on untested, unproven prospects tells me you’re not interested in being taken seriously in this discussion.

you dont even make sense . i already explained the task isnt to get back into playoffs as quickly as possible at the cost of greater long term success . the task is to create a depth chart today that will lead to long term success and as many chances at a championship as possible which is best for redwing fans . but you continue to have to cry about missing playoffs 6 years when that has ZILCH to do with yzerman , that was the mess he inherited . but your in a rush to have bragging rights so you can get your motor mouth running and announce how smart and wonderful you are by being a fan of a good team . and right off the bat when somebody is whining about grammar at a hockey forum you know theyve got issues . then theres your babbling about prospects whivch are obviously needed to build a team being untested / unproven as if everey great hockey player hasnt been an untested prospect , and like its impossible for a teams fans to judge how good a prospect might become by their performances in lesser leagues , lol . just pack it up

 

[Dotter]

I can see them leapfrogging Boston, I’d be more concerned about Buffalo and Tampa tbh.

Do you expect we’ll see Cossa at some point this year?

Not this season. Wings have 4 NHL goalies; Talbot, Lyon, Campbell and Husso. I do not understand the Jack Campbell signing.

 

[dekelikekocur]

His plan is a terrible one if it doesn't take into account what everyone outside of Detroit uses to adjudge the success of an NHL team: making the playoffs and competing for the Cup. Right now it's all words until he does that, and the team is no closer than when he took over. You can tout his greatness when the team he's assembled makes the post-season for the first time.

The only person's opinion on how Detroit is doing is Illitch. No, you don't do your job based on what non factors think you should be doing. You do your job based on who signs your paycheck opinion.

The fact you posted this bullshit screams overly dramatic tween with a self confidence issue.

 

[VeteranPresence]

The only person's opinion on how Detroit is doing is Illitch. No, you don't do your job based on what non factors think you should be doing. You do your job based on who signs your paycheck opinion.

The fact you posted this bullshit screams overly dramatic tween with a self confidence issue.

TIL that judging an NHL GM's success based on facts and results rather than feels is a sign of poor self-confidence. What banner does Yzerman get for making Mr. Illitch feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

 

[norrisnick]

TIL that judging an NHL GM's success based on facts and results rather than feels is a sign of poor self-confidence. What banner does Yzerman get for making Mr. Illitch feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

Mr. Ilitch hasn't been feeling anything of late let alone warm and fuzzy.

 

[roman star]

TIL that judging an NHL GM's success based on facts and results rather than feels is a sign of poor self-confidence. What banner does Yzerman get for making Mr. Illitch feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

you need to be taught about how long it takes to rebuild the worst roster and pipeline in the nhl in a capped nhl , this isnt 20 years ago when you could sign all the great ufa you wanted . and i doubt if your even aware of how weak the batch of prospects detroit had when yzerman took over .

 

[SirKillalot]

Do you think a salesperson would be allowed to miss their yearly quotas for six straight years and justify it constantly with "I'm building toward it, just wait 2-3 more years and then I will"?

Would a surgeon get to spend his first year learning on the job and constantly have patients die on the operating table but excuse it by saying he's building toward being a great one and he'll get going a few years from now?

Not even remotely relatable comparisons.

In what other job do you get this long to produce meaningful results?

Startups who loan money to invest in the future and goes in minus for several years before slowly improving and at a stage gets bigger improvements. You know, similar to being bad, drafting fairly high, letting the prospects develop before you throw them into the team and thus building a core they believe will fight for the title.

A chef makes his food a 100% and let each ingredient ripe before he throws them together for a solid dish. Let's see what comes out of it when the dish is ready, not when the food goes out the freezer and is barely put in the pan.

This is a results-oriented business. He's not gotten the results that I think most of us thought would have already happened by now (you know, a playoff spot in a Leauge where literally half the teams make it in) when he returned in 2019 with the reputation of being the game's best GM.

I think he's results have been good all things considered and the cards he started with and the cards he has gotten dealt. Improved every year before this in the last 4. Maybe this years improvements comes with the prospects outside the team which will come into the team in the next 1-2-3 years.

No point being in the playoffs just to be cheerleaders after a 0-4 sweep in round one while tossing assets away and setting up a shorter window. Did great in Tampa, on his way to do the same in Detroit.

 

[flin flon bombers]

They don't have close to the star power of years past when you had marquee players such Howe and Lindsay or Dennis pollonich and Gerald gallant even Joey kocur and probert, your just not going to win much.

 

[SirloinUB]

Oh look, this deflection again. If Yzerman has built this treasure chest of prospects, why has he kept them hidden away?

I feel like you answered your own question.. they’re prospects, they’re still developing. That’s why they’re called prospects and not nhl players.

 

[flin flon bombers]

I think in today's game it is so much harder to build a winner without a top 5 center, a top 6 man and a top flight winger,players you usually get from being last or close to last 3 or 4 years in a row.the systems like the left wing lock or the trap that helped steady many a ships are no longer doable after 2005,and with salary cap you can't buy a second line.toronto had an opportunity in the last 8 years finnishing at the bottom for 3 or 4 years but there stars lack gumption,so even then luck plays a huge part.

 

[Lampedampe]

Better question - why do you think it’s acceptable for one of the League’s premier franchises to have been outside of the playoffs for this long with no clear goal of when to get back, much less contend for a title?



Actually I don’t think he should be fired yet (as opposed to Lalonde, who never should have been retained for this season and should have been fired after the losses to the Ducks and Sharks last week). But if he continues to fail to produce meaningful results, then yes, he should be on the hot seat and have more pressure applied to accelerate this process.

Like I said, it’s a results-oriented business, and he’s not delivered meaningful results. (After six years, the “but they’ve improved their point total” excuse doesn’t fly anymore).

Oh, and you can drop the lazy “oh you think you could do better???” nonsense. I’ve never directed a film but I’m allowed to go to the movies and say what I paid to watch stunk.


Feel free to continue when you can write above the level of a blind second grader.

Terrible vibes.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Where are they, then?

Film Room: How the Red Wings' Simon Edvinsson evolved into a top-pair defenceman

David St-Louis breaks down the film on how the Detroit Red Wings defenders has seized an opportunity this season to deliver on his draft pedigree.

eprinkside.com

 

[Bank Shot]

They were one of the worst non expansion teams in NHL history when he took over and had zero prospects to speak of.


Last season they missed the post season by 1pt, are battling against this season and have a top 3-5 prospect pool in the NHL

But sure, they’re no closer than when he took over

The amount of times I have heard the Red Wings have had a top 3-5 prospect pool is very high.
There was going to be Zetterberg and Datsyuk almost every year post lockout.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The amount of times I have heard the Red Wings have had a top 3-5 prospect pool is very high.
There was going to be Zetterberg and Datsyuk almost every year post lockout.

Seider, Raymond and Edvinsson are all top 3-5 (conservatively speaking) at their respective age and position group.
Cossa and Augustine are arguably both top 5 goaltender prospects.
ASP is a top 3-5 defensive prospect.
etc.

Why do you think the estimation is incorrect or isn't translating to the NHL?

 

[VeteranPresence]

Why do you think the estimation is incorrect or isn't translating to the NHL?

Probably because if your outlandish fantasy was at all true it would mean Detroit would be solidly in the playoffs and not, you know, on track to miss them yet again.

 

[Finnen]

Edvinsson has worked excellent next to Seider.

Gustafsson has undeniably rub to produce frontwíse.

But Gustafsson's high season was 63 point since about 10 years since.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Probably because if your outlandish fantasy was at all true it would mean Detroit would be solidly in the playoffs

Why? Can you name a single "solidly" playoff team driven mostly by 23-and-under talent?
The prospect pool is a prospect pool because they're not in the NHL yet. What has arrived in the NHL however is performing well.

 

[Peasy]

Why? Can you name a single "solidly" playoff team driven mostly by 23-and-under talent?
The prospect pool is a prospect pool because they're not in the NHL yet. What has arrived in the NHL however is performing well.

Leafs when they first started their current playoff streak.

 

[matt trick]

Don’t see much wrong that he has done unless you blame Yzerman for lottery luck.

Yes, the Walman trade was bad- I can’t imagine Grier would have passed Walman on waivers given the state of the defense- we’ve since added Ceci and Liljigren as well. Maybe going for Debrincat was the wrong timing, but they didn’t give up too much and got a young first line winger who grew up rooting for them. He’s hit on most of his early picks- Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, ASP, Danielson, Cossa, and MBN have proven good, or look like very good picks. Kasper looks solid too.

I believe your rebuild hasn’t started until you get an elite center or elite dman. Centers are almost exclusively found in the top 3, usually top 1-2. Elite dmen can be found elsewhere, as they did with Seider. Larkin-Danielson-Kulich could be an excellent center by committee, but Larkin isn’t that game breaking talent, and by the time the kids are ready, Larkin may be falling off.

The only way they could have gotten the elite C is to tank hard or get lottery luck. Maybe if they'd not gone for Debrincat and then tanked hard in 2023 and gotten one of the big 3, or Smith, but they’d have needed to be much, much worse give. How poor Chicago, SJ, Anaheim, CBJ, and MTL were that year.