Detroit Red Wings: 2019 and Beyond

[Redder Winger]

I'd pass, they're both 30 and dont fit our window

Me too

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Patches is garbage

Worst captain
Soft as butter

No thanks

 

[Pavels Dog]

I like the 11 million dollar 4th line the best

Not a fan of a top 6 and top 4D full of cheap ELCs and favorable RFAs?

 

[InjuredChoker]

Not a fan of a top 6 and top 4D full of cheap ELCs and favorable RFAs?

if our current kids pan out and those high picks turn out to be elite players, 11M 4th line isn't that big of a problem. not ideal but wouldn't matter that much.

but the roster for 2020 is not going to look like that. there will be some UFAs in top 6/4.

 

[InjuredChoker]

not sure where to put this but dellow had an article on theathletic about dozen biggest blackhole lines in the NHL this past season. wings 4th line was the 5th worst. wings were about league avg team in terms of goals 5on5 when the 4th line was on the bench but got outscored by about 20 goals when the 4th line was on the ice. next worst was -10.

 

[Flowah]

not sure where to put this but dellow had an article on theathletic about dozen biggest blackhole lines in the NHL this past season. wings 4th line was the 5th worst. wings were about league avg team in terms of goals 5on5 when the 4th line was on the bench but got outscored by about 20 goals when the 4th line was on the ice. next worst was -10.

A curious thing about this group is that they all tended to do much better when not playing on the fourth line. To pick one crazy example, Justin Abdelkader got outscored 12-2 while playing on the fourth line with a 38.7 per cent Corsi%. That’s bad. In the top nine, the Wings outscored the opposition 32-30 with him on the ice with a 50.8 per cent Corsi%. There’s maybe something for the Red Wings to look into here, in terms of whether they can squeeze more out of their roster by organizing it differently or whether there’s one player who sinks everything. (If there is, he isn’t immediately obvious.)

That's interesting stuff.

Why would Abby suck so bad on the 4th line and then not so bad on the 1st line. I don't think that effect was all him or even mostly him. Was it Glendening? Is it the system? Does the system suck more for the line that doesn't have the skill to work it?

Should they do anything? Sure. Do you know of someone with a time machine? Glendening, Nielsen, Helm and Abdelkader are all locked up for at least three more years, which is incredible.

el oh el. We are a laughing stock.

 

[NickH8]

A curious thing about this group is that they all tended to do much better when not playing on the fourth line. To pick one crazy example, Justin Abdelkader got outscored 12-2 while playing on the fourth line with a 38.7 per cent Corsi%. That’s bad. In the top nine, the Wings outscored the opposition 32-30 with him on the ice with a 50.8 per cent Corsi%. There’s maybe something for the Red Wings to look into here, in terms of whether they can squeeze more out of their roster by organizing it differently or whether there’s one player who sinks everything. (If there is, he isn’t immediately obvious.)

That's interesting stuff.

Why would Abby suck so bad on the 4th line and then not so bad on the 1st line. I don't think that effect was all him or even mostly him. Was it Glendening? Is it the system? Does the system suck more for the line that doesn't have the skill to work it?

Should they do anything? Sure. Do you know of someone with a time machine? Glendening, Nielsen, Helm and Abdelkader are all locked up for at least three more years, which is incredible.

el oh el. We are a laughing stock.

Glendening and Frk are the only constants on the 4th line so they're the prime suspects of being the players who sink everything. They are both kind of one-trick ponies (Glendening with faceoffs and Frk with his shot). In the end our 4th line is the least of our worries. If you really care enough to change it though move Frk and Glendening for whatever you can get and bring up Turgeon and Tangradi. Play Abdelkader or Helm on the other wing.

 

[Claypool]

Sorry to be an ass-hat but I find posts saying, "we've turned a corner, this is an exciting time as Wings fans" pretty funny. Have you checked cap-friendly lately? Look how many years we're chained to these players:

You expected this team to rebuild in a season or two? This is a 10-year process minimum. The contracts you're complaining about now won't even be a factor when this team maybe starts getting good again. Kick back and enjoy many seasons of losing.

 

[Flowah]

In the end our 4th line is the least of our worries.

According to the Athletic it's near the top of our worries. We around the league our top9 was average. It was our bottom 3 that killed us. They brought us very far down.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Glendening and Frk are the only constants on the 4th line so they're the prime suspects of being the players who sink everything. They are both kind of one-trick ponies (Glendening with faceoffs and Frk with his shot). In the end our 4th line is the least of our worries. If you really care enough to change it though move Frk and Glendening for whatever you can get and bring up Turgeon and Tangradi. Play Abdelkader or Helm on the other wing.

How would that fix anything? Turgeon at this point would be like a younger Cory Emmerton or Joakim Andersson, and Tangradi is basically a "no trick pony" warm body who only produces in the AHL and plays like he's 45lbs lighter and 6 inches shorter...

I do tend to agree though on the issue with Frk, but less on Glendening. What if it's the other way around and not the guys are constants, but the revolving door of guys that maybe shouldn't be on the 4th line? I think one of the problems with the Red Wings is that they don't really attempt to put together a 4th line in the way that they have when they were a good team, or that current good teams use theirs. Your 4th line should be made up of guys that can go out and take and win d-zone draws, skate fast AND work hard, forecheck and finish checks. In that sense, Glendening should belong on the 4th line. However, the Red Wings maybe have one guy that belongs on the 4th line and then otherwise use it as some "in uniform press box" for guys that probably wouldn't be anywhere near a 4th line on a good team:

-"Skill" guys that aren't good enough to play in the top 9 and aren't really ideal 4th liners (IE Wilson, Frk, Pulkkinen, etc.)
-Fringe guys they're afraid of losing on waivers that offer some but not all 4th line intangibles (Emmerton, Andersson, Mursak, Nestrasil,Ferraro, etc.)
-Doghoused forwards that should be playing in the top 9 (AA, Mantha, Weiss, etc.)
-Low end bargain bin guys that at least fit on the 4th line, but would be in the pressbox or the AHL on a good team (Miller, Ott, Witkowski, Booth, etc.)

Look at the two teams that are still playing. They both deploy 4th lines outfitted with guys that you would expect to play and fit in on a 4th line. Vegas has Nosek-Bellemare-Carrier/Reaves and the Caps use Stephenson-Beagle-Smith-Pelly and Chiasson. I'll bet if you put Holland and Blashill in control of Vegas, most of those guys sit while an underperforming Tatar and Lindberg dress for every playoff game.

 

[Frk It]

Glendening and Frk are the only constants on the 4th line so they're the prime suspects of being the players who sink everything. They are both kind of one-trick ponies (Glendening with faceoffs and Frk with his shot). In the end our 4th line is the least of our worries. If you really care enough to change it though move Frk and Glendening for whatever you can get and bring up Turgeon and Tangradi. Play Abdelkader or Helm on the other wing.

Posted this in the other thread, but I'll post it again here...

Frk - 50.7 CF%
Glendening - 43.1 CF%
Witkowski - 41.7 CF%
Booth - 40.3 CF%

Bottom 2 are a black hole in every metric there is.

 

[Ezekial]

Posted this in the other thread, but I'll post it again here...

Frk - 50.7 CF%
Glendening - 43.1 CF%
Witkowski - 41.7 CF%
Booth - 40.3 CF%

Bottom 2 are a black hole in every metric there is.

Witter's fights/60 was probably pretty good.

 

[NickH8]

How would that fix anything? Turgeon at this point would be like a younger Cory Emmerton or Joakim Andersson, and Tangradi is basically a "no trick pony" warm body who only produces in the AHL and plays like he's 45lbs lighter and 6 inches shorter...

I do tend to agree though on the issue with Frk, but less on Glendening. What if it's the other way around and not the guys are constants, but the revolving door of guys that maybe shouldn't be on the 4th line? I think one of the problems with the Red Wings is that they don't really attempt to put together a 4th line in the way that they have when they were a good team, or that current good teams use theirs. Your 4th line should be made up of guys that can go out and take and win d-zone draws, skate fast AND work hard, forecheck and finish checks. In that sense, Glendening should belong on the 4th line. However, the Red Wings maybe have one guy that belongs on the 4th line and then otherwise use it as some "in uniform press box" for guys that probably wouldn't be anywhere near a 4th line on a good team:

-"Skill" guys that aren't good enough to play in the top 9 and aren't really ideal 4th liners (IE Wilson, Frk, Pulkkinen, etc.)
-Fringe guys they're afraid of losing on waivers that offer some but not all 4th line intangibles (Emmerton, Andersson, Mursak, Nestrasil,Ferraro, etc.)
-Doghoused forwards that should be playing in the top 9 (AA, Mantha, Weiss, etc.)
-Low end bargain bin guys that at least fit on the 4th line, but would be in the pressbox or the AHL on a good team (Miller, Ott, Witkowski, Booth, etc.)

Look at the two teams that are still playing. They both deploy 4th lines outfitted with guys that you would expect to play and fit in on a 4th line. Vegas has Nosek-Bellemare-Carrier/Reaves and the Caps use Stephenson-Beagle-Smith-Pelly and Chiasson. I'll bet if you put Holland and Blashill in control of Vegas, most of those guys sit while an underperforming Tatar and Lindberg dress for every playoff game.

Just throwing stuff out there. We don't really have many good true 4th liners in the system.

 

[njx9]

Witkowski - 41.7 CF%
Booth - 40.3 CF%

I'm shocked that useless plugs play like useless plugs. Great FA adds, they were.

 

[Marky9er]

Just came across this. OMG.

 

[Henkka]

According to the Athletic it's near the top of our worries. We around the league our top9 was average. It was our bottom 3 that killed us. They brought us very far down.

Would still be interested how the defencemen went behind different lines.

 

[Shaman464]

According to the Athletic it's near the top of our worries. We around the league our top9 was average. It was our bottom 3 that killed us. They brought us very far down.

Except Detroit this season didn't really run a traditional fourth line.

 

[NickH8]

Did some armchair GMing on CapFriendly, want to see what you guys think. Tried to keep it realistic.
Red Wings 2018-2019 - Armchair-GM - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Henkka]

Don't see them trading Helm before his NTC clause changes "easier".

CLAUSE DETAILS: Full NTC throughout (2018-19: NTC may be voided between June 15, 2019 & 2019-20 NHL Trade deadline, if player is not in the Top 9 F in TOI, or if team does not qualify for the playoffs | 2019-20: NTC may be voided between June 15, 2020 & final day of the contract, if player is not in the Top 9 F in TOI, or if team does not qualify for the playoffs)

So that TOI clause is pretty much injury/based clause. Low TOI outside Top9 Forwards means injured season pretty much.

At last season, Helm was 7th in Total Ice/time. But for this 2018 off-season, there no clauses, and tough to see full NTC trade anyhow.

 

[lilidk]

If Blush don't make them work harder , much harder next year , I expect him to lose his job. Helm and Aby needs to step up . Mantha and Larkin will lead this team to play off . I hope Kroner will retire , he had great years with Red Wings . Green will be mentor to Hronek , Cholo and Hicketts . I like Nielson , finally somebody replaced Filpulla . If Frk and Svechnikov were little bit faster, this team could improved