Detroit Red Wings: 2019 and Beyond

[NickH8]

With Hank and Kronwall riding off into the sunset very soon, I think we hold onto Nielsen - or at least I think that we should. Sure his contract is too long, but he's a calm, hardworking leader who can move into top or bottom six, play in all situations and will play and compose himself the right way. I don't know anything about what goes on in that locker room, but I don't feel comfortable thinking of Abdelkader as the veteran leader of this squad. I think Nielsen will be great to wear an "A" and help Larkin transition into even more of a leadership role over the next few seasons.
Maybe I'm over-simplifying things, but I see a lot of reliable vets leaving soon and I don't want that locker room to turn into some adolescent romper room.

Agreed. Also I don't believe we need 5 vets who may or may not be leaders (Nielsen, Ericsson, Daley, Helm, Abdelkader), keep Z and Kronner until they retire, since they are proven leaders, then pick two of the 5 I listed to be the transition guys who help Larkin become a leader. Trade the rest. Having that many vets is unnecessary.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Larkin isn't your ideal #1 center, but he's good enough to roll with. Now he needs some linemates, and we need a #2 center to complement him and round out some of his weaknesses. I think the team already has a good group of 2nd and 3rd line wingers. So I think the team should be looking at another center, another winger, and 3-4 defensemen from the top 40 picks over the next 2-3 years. Of particular note: a LD with PP ability, a two-way LD, and a puckmoving RD.

And then there's goaltender, which I am incapable of judging. Maybe we have good prospects? Not sure.

 

[lilidk]

I think we will be surprised how good Red Wings are next year. I hope Z and Kroner gone , so kids will take over . Mantha should have much better year,he has all the tools to do it. AA should be 3 line center with Bert and they need to pass him every time he asked , no more than 10-15 min a game

 

[StargateSG1]

Don't do anything stupid and draft better.

Trade what you can.

Get rid of the current regime, if you want any of these 3 things to happen

 

[StargateSG1]

I think we will be surprised how good Red Wings are next year. I hope Z and Kroner gone , so kids will take over . Mantha should have much better year,he has all the tools to do it. AA should be 3 line center with Bert and they need to pass him every time he asked , no more than 10-15 min a game

Not a chance in hell.
You don't improve from the bottom 6 finish unless some major changes occur.

 

[Redder Winger]

I haven't seen anything that suggests Nielsen is a leader.
I have no problem going
C-Larkin
A-Abdelkader
A-Glendening/Whoever

The sooner we get out from under the Nielsen contract, the better.

 

[kliq]

I haven't seen anything that suggests Nielsen is a leader.
I have no problem going
C-Larkin
A-Abdelkader
A-Glendening/Whoever

The sooner we get out from under the Nielsen contract, the better.

New York Islanders Still Hurting from the Frans Nielsen Loss

If I were the Wings, I would be talking trade with NYI. It was reported that Nielsen took less money to come here, so if they have interest (which is probably 50/50) it would make sense.

 

[TheMule93]

New York Islanders Still Hurting from the Frans Nielsen Loss

If I were the Wings, I would be talking trade with NYI. It was reported that Nielsen took less money to come here, so if they have interest (which is probably 50/50) it would make sense.

That might also convince Tavares to stay around considering they are good buds

 

[jkutswings]

New York Islanders Still Hurting from the Frans Nielsen Loss

If I were the Wings, I would be talking trade with NYI. It was reported that Nielsen took less money to come here, so if they have interest (which is probably 50/50) it would make sense.

I hear the Islanders have an extra pick from Calgary...

 

[Nut Upstrom]

I haven't seen anything that suggests Nielsen is a leader.
I have no problem going
C-Larkin
A-Abdelkader
A-Glendening/Whoever

The sooner we get out from under the Nielsen contract, the better.

Other than letters on their sweaters, I'm not sure what proof there can possibly be to show a fan watching on TV who the leaders in the room are. Other than inviting you into said locker room you can just speculate and make half-blind judgments based on what contracts you like or don't like. I think one tangible piece of proof we can actually see is league-wide respect - something Nielsen has.

 

[Redder Winger]

Other than letters on their sweaters, I'm not sure what proof there can possibly be to show a fan watching on TV who the leaders in the room are. Other than inviting you into said locker room you can just speculate and make half-blind judgments based on what contracts you like or don't like. I think one tangible piece of proof we can actually see is league-wide respect - something Nielsen has.

Where's your evidence that Nielsen has anymore respect than anyone else?
We know that the team has propped up Abdelkader and GLendening as leaders. That the team rooms young kids with guys like Glendening so they learn to be good professionals.
Maybe they do the same with Nielsen.
I haven't heard that.

 

[Redder Winger]

New York Islanders Still Hurting from the Frans Nielsen Loss

If I were the Wings, I would be talking trade with NYI. It was reported that Nielsen took less money to come here, so if they have interest (which is probably 50/50) it would make sense.

Well, the hockey writers ... not so sure about that website.

 

[jkutswings]

Where's your evidence that Nielsen has anymore respect than anyone else?
We know that the team has propped up Abdelkader and GLendening as leaders. That the team rooms young kids with guys like Glendening so they learn to be good professionals.
Maybe they do the same with Nielsen.
I haven't heard that.

This is from a quick search on "Frans Nielsen leader". It was just after he signed in Detroit, and includes comments from Dan Saraceni, who is one of the two main writers for Lighthouse Hockey, the Islanders SB Nation blog:

Nielsen Ratings: Frans In-Depth

"It's easier to see what a player can do on the ice than off it, but we know how important the latter can be to a team. I asked Dan what intangibles Nielsen brings to the team, and his answer was very promising:

"He's worn an "A" for the Islanders for some time and was a leader in the locker room. As far as I know, there's never been a cross word said about him, and his (now ex-) teammates praised his unselfishness and reliability. Losing him is going to have a huge effect on the team's make up. To be honest, as a fan, I'm scared of just how much of an effect it will have."


So at a minimum, he had respect and was considered a leader with the Islanders.​

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Meh if we have great wingers Larkin could be good enough as a 1C. Look at what Chicago did with Toews who has hit 70 points once.

Helps having a Hart calibre winger and a Norris calibre defenseman for most of that time.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Toews was perhaps the best two-way center in the NHL. Larkin is nowhere near what Toews was when he was centering the Hawks to cups.

If Larkin a 60-70 point center with strong two-way play and puck possession, I won't complain one bit. I also don't think it's impossible.


I unfortunately have a bad feeling Larkin is going to waste a lot of years here before we are anything resembling a good team.

 

[Redder Winger]

This is from a quick search on "Frans Nielsen leader". It was just after he signed in Detroit, and includes comments from Dan Saraceni, who is one of the two main writers for Lighthouse Hockey, the Islanders SB Nation blog:

Nielsen Ratings: Frans In-Depth

"It's easier to see what a player can do on the ice than off it, but we know how important the latter can be to a team. I asked Dan what intangibles Nielsen brings to the team, and his answer was very promising:

"He's worn an "A" for the Islanders for some time and was a leader in the locker room. As far as I know, there's never been a cross word said about him, and his (now ex-) teammates praised his unselfishness and reliability. Losing him is going to have a huge effect on the team's make up. To be honest, as a fan, I'm scared of just how much of an effect it will have."


So at a minimum, he had respect and was considered a leader with the Islanders.​

That's nice.
He started on Long Island and stayed there until he was 32 or whatever.
Then he left them high and dry.

A bunch of fanblog writing about how nice and reliable he is doesn't tell me much about his leadership in Detroit.


And I've still yet to see examples of why he's a better leader in Detroit than Glendening or Abdelkader.

Why does anyone want to keep an underperforming, overpaid veteran around and elevate him to a leadership role?
We've got enough of that.

Besides... we all know how this team operates. We know who the coach is.
If Z and Kronner leave, the shortlist for captain letters is pretty clear;
Abdelkader
Larkin
Glendening
Dekeyser
Ericsson
Maybe Nyquist
Maybe Helm.
They're not going to give it to some 34 year old under performer who's been here two years.

 

[DanZ]

Not a chance in hell.
You don't improve from the bottom 6 finish unless some major changes occur.

I could reasonably see Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, and Bertuzzi all being better next year. They're getting closer to their primes. And possible contributions from other rookies like Hicketts, Hronek, and Svechnikov. It wouldn't be shocking to me if they were better next year, but nothing more than a bubble team.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

That's nice.
He started on Long Island and stayed there until he was 32 or whatever.
Then he left them high and dry.

A bunch of fanblog writing about how nice and reliable he is doesn't tell me much about his leadership in Detroit.


And I've still yet to see examples of why he's a better leader in Detroit than Glendening or Abdelkader.

Why does anyone want to keep an underperforming, overpaid veteran around and elevate him to a leadership role?
We've got enough of that.

Besides... we all know how this team operates. We know who the coach is.
If Z and Kronner leave, the shortlist for captain letters is pretty clear;
Abdelkader
Larkin
Glendening
Dekeyser
Ericsson
Maybe Nyquist
Maybe Helm.
They're not going to give it to some 34 year old under performer who's been here two years.

If he doesn't get a letter it will be because he doesn't need a letter to garner respect and to be heard in the locker room. I guess we'll see how that plays out.
Here: NY Times article, not a fanblog though I'm sure you'll find it in you to dismiss it because, again, it goes against your agenda.
Frans Nielsen, One of Three Puzzling Departures, Returns to Face the Islanders

Other than testimonials delivered to you in person by NHLers, I'm not sure what you're looking for. Anyways, we'll all have to wait and see how things unfold. Done discussing this with you.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Agreed. Also I don't believe we need 5 vets who may or may not be leaders (Nielsen, Ericsson, Daley, Helm, Abdelkader), keep Z and Kronner until they retire, since they are proven leaders, then pick two of the 5 I listed to be the transition guys who help Larkin become a leader. Trade the rest. Having that many vets is unnecessary.

I wish I knew more concerning the leadership qualities of Abdelkader and Helm; obviously the organization has a great deal of faith in them and seems to feel they are guys who set good examples for the younger kids. Hopefully, out of the five you mentioned, we have a few vets who can serve as examples, role models and leaders whether or not they have a letter on their sweater. As for trading the rest, obviously that's easier said than done considering some of those contracts. Daley might be the only movable one out of the bunch.

As much as Zetterberg's leadership is questioned on this forum, I truly think the team, especially the younger players, are going to miss that when he's gone. Hopefully we have the guys in-house to fill his skates.

 

[kliq]

Well, the hockey writers ... not so sure about that website.

Ya I don’t know, my point is that if I were Holland I would be asking Nielsen if he would accept a trade to NYI and then calling up NYI.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Not a chance in hell.
You don't improve from the bottom 6 finish unless some major changes occur.

There could be major changes though. Depending on who we draft he could make the NHL right out of the gate. Rasmussen is almost a lock. Svechnikov should get every chance. Possible summer trades include Nyquist, Glendening, Dekeyser etc.
Cholowski, Hronek and Hicketts will fight for jobs from day 1.

Heck we don’t even know 100% if we will have the same GM (but looks likely).

Other ”major changes” could be Mantha playing a full year like he played the first 20 games this season or AA putting everything together.

It’s possible. We could also get worse. Impossible to say.

 

[Goalie guy]

Well here is what I see. A team who checked out on the coach said coach is being kept, A GM who refuse to let go of his role to feed his own ego. A guy who had a team handed to him that could really care less about the team he puts out on the ice only about his fancy new rink. I think what kids we do have stay here and flounder till they can leave, Larkin being a home town boy stays and wears the C on a 80's bad team till the later half of his playing time. At that point the picks we have gotten will get us back to a bubble team. I have no faith in the organization to go in the right direction, yes building threw the draft is the way to go and we have a long way to go if and that is a huge if the picks they make are right. I don't see any FA worth a damn wanting to play here at all. I think any of the people thinking we will be good in a few years are going to be let down, I hope I'm wrong but things do not look good.

 

[Claypool]

I think any of the people thinking we will be good in a few years are going to be let down, I hope I'm wrong but things do not look good.

I don't think anyone here believes this team will be good in "a few years." This is a 5-10 year process at minimum. Anyone who is let down deserves it since it's what they have been demanding this organization to do. Better get used to losing. A lot.

The sooner we get out from under the Nielsen contract, the better.

Why? This team won't be hurting for cap space for a long time, not unless they draft some young superstars that light up the league a la Matthews or McDavid.

 

[Red Stanley]

Well here is what I see. A team who checked out on the coach said coach is being kept, A GM who refuse to let go of his role to feed his own ego. A guy who had a team handed to him that could really care less about the team he puts out on the ice only about his fancy new rink. I think what kids we do have stay here and flounder till they can leave, Larkin being a home town boy stays and wears the C on a 80's bad team till the later half of his playing time. At that point the picks we have gotten will get us back to a bubble team. I have no faith in the organization to go in the right direction, yes building threw the draft is the way to go and we have a long way to go if and that is a huge if the picks they make are right. I don't see any FA worth a damn wanting to play here at all. I think any of the people thinking we will be good in a few years are going to be let down, I hope I'm wrong but things do not look good.

Sounds like you know them personally and very well.

As for the rest, the Wings have been an extremely stable organization since forever. While an environment like that can lead to stagnation, it also has a better chance to rebound faster with the infusion of player talent. Nobody can predict how things will shake out in the near future, especially with a cornerstone draft coming up. The opinions shared here are more of a reflection of one's personal state of mind than an educated guess as to what will happen even a couple of years down the road. At the very least these are exciting times. We'll be going through a complete overhaul the likes of which I've never witnessed on a RW team.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

There could be major changes though. Depending on who we draft he could make the NHL right out of the gate. Rasmussen is almost a lock. Svechnikov should get every chance. Possible summer trades include Nyquist, Glendening, Dekeyser etc.
Cholowski, Hronek and Hicketts will fight for jobs from day 1.

Heck we don’t even know 100% if we will have the same GM (but looks likely).

Other ”major changes” could be Mantha playing a full year like he played the first 20 games this season or AA putting everything together.

It’s possible. We could also get worse. Impossible to say.

I mean, yeah, a million things could very well happen.

Then again I didn't start this thread for people to predict what will happen. I started it so we could discuss what the team needs to reach its final goal, what people think that final goal should be (just to win a cup, just to make the playoffs, to win the cup and be a contender for a long time?), etc.

Nyquist may move. Glendening may move. Dekeyser may more. None of those are going to be that substantial, especially Glendening and Dekeyser.

Should we rely on Cholowski, Hronek and Hicketts to be good from day one? Should we rely on Rasmussen to become exactly what we want? Is Mantha going to be reliable to improve as we want (considering it is likely he is going to finish at roughly the same scoring pace as last year in 2018)?

And even if all those coin flips fall the way we want, is that going to be enough? Is the prospect group we have right now going to be enough to reliably expect to contend a few years from now?