Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[badfish]

solid game.

I know Kloten was supposed to be bad or was bad. It would be good to have an idea of how bad they are (for me anyways) to see what he's up against. If his team is just getting ran over every game with scoring chances it would give a better context of his game.

If he's just spending most of his game trying to weather the storm it would shed more light on his game. If he was on a powerhouse he'd probably rack up more points, take more chances offensively and just look all around better.

I still see a very mature D man who makes really smart choices most of the time. He just seems like a rock solid all around D man at worst. If he was in the CHL, he'd be lighting it up and looking like a RD Guhle-ish type.

Does he come over next year?

I think Kloten is one of the worst teams in the Swiss League this season. I looked it up a few days ago and they were near the bottom of the standings and had a ~-20 goal differential.

 

[Toene]

Even if he's working on his all-around game, he should definitely be producing more than that.

 

[lillypad33]

Slaf is doing ok at the moment..... who is the next kid that people choose as the new whipping boy?

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Even if he's working on his all-around game, he should definitely be producing more than that.

I think he can be better all in all but I honestly don’t know what realistic production milestones are with his team being so bad.

Pretty sure they were a playoff team last year. I just really don’t know. I think his footwork is better at least but I don’t know if his game has taken much a leap as of now.

Hopefully he can look better as the season goes along.

 

[Miller Time]

Even if he's working on his all-around game, he should definitely be producing more than that.

interesting take...

Curious, what do you base the "should" on?

there are 7 U20 players in the Swiss league rosters, 3 have only played a handful of games (with no points), and of the 4 that have played games, RB is 2nd in PPG behind a forward who is at .45ppg to his .36ppg. and he's a year younger than that player (and Roher, the other forward, whom RB is ahead of in PPG. 4th guy is a dman with 0 pts in 23 games).

Would seem that by Swiss elite league standards, RB is producing "well" for a teen in a league where very few teens see the ice.

 

[The Great Weal]

Slaf is doing ok at the moment..... who is the next kid that people choose as the new whipping boy?

I think it's more than fair to be disappointed with Reinbacher's season so far. Doesn't mean he's guaranteed to be a bad pick or that he's a bust.

 

[Miller Time]

I think it's more than fair to be disappointed with Reinbacher's season so far. Doesn't mean he's guaranteed to be a bad pick or that he's a bust.

disappointed after 11 games?

to each their own, but not so sure i'd frame that as a "fair" assessment

 

[Garo]

Even if he's working on his all-around game, he should definitely be producing more than that.

He's one point behind the top scoring defenceman on his team in 17 less games. I just don't think the team is very good at the offence thing tbh

 

[montreal]

disappointed after 11 games?

to each their own, but not so sure i'd frame that as a "fair" assessment

there's no harm in being disappointed if it's after 1 game. Being disappointed means nothing, he's either going to get back on track and improve or he won't, no one knows and it often takes a good bit of time to find out.

We all saw the tons of shit that "fans" threw at KK for years, and when Caufield had 1 goal or after the WJC's, how quickly fans turn on prospects, how little patience so many have. So we are always going to have to put up with nonsense posting as clearly so, so many fans seem to speak from emotions not from logic.

I don't know how anyone can watch these games and not be a little concerned or disappointed as we were sold at the draft that he's this high end defender but almost every game he's turning over the puck and some of them are just bad mistakes that he should not be making. But we don't know how much the injury has impacted him, or why he's struggling as in the games I saw last year he didn't have this kind of problems so often.

But I don't see any issues with being a little concerned or disappointed, it's a long process and he just needs to make improvements. He either will or he won't.

 

[HuGort]

there's no harm in being disappointed if it's after 1 game. Being disappointed means nothing, he's either going to get back on track and improve or he won't, no one knows and it often takes a good bit of time to find out.

We all saw the tons of shit that "fans" threw at KK for years, and when Caufield had 1 goal or after the WJC's, how quickly fans turn on prospects, how little patience so many have. So we are always going to have to put up with nonsense posting as clearly so, so many fans seem to speak from emotions not from logic.

I don't know how anyone can watch these games and not be a little concerned or disappointed as we were sold at the draft that he's this high end defender but almost every game he's turning over the puck and some of them are just bad mistakes that he should not be making. But we don't know how much the injury has impacted him, or why he's struggling as in the games I saw last year he didn't have this kind of problems so often.

But I don't see any issues with being a little concerned or disappointed, it's a long process and he just needs to make improvements. He either will or he won't.

Do you think he is better than Broberg at 19?

 

[ReHabs]

Is it fair to expect a better season, or at the very least just as good a season, than last? I don't know the answer maybe someone can take a crack at it.

Because that's the issue with the alchemical breakdowns a la "if you go by d-men points for U20s, he's actually top10!" sorta comments. Very Grant McCagg.

If he's regressed from last year there must be some way to analyse the picture right? I didn't watch him but the Habs scouting staff sure did when they unanimously supported the pick -- is he making more mistakes than last year? Production is only one part of it, and it's not the most important aspect...

 

[Jaynki]

Because that's the issue with the alchemical breakdowns a la "if you go by d-men points for U20s, he's actually top10!" sorta comments. Very Grant McCagg.

Those argument are Grant McCaggesque when used to prop-up Reinbacher,

But this type of argument have been used in spades and so often to discredit Slafkovsky.

 

[ReHabs]

Those argument are Grant McCaggesque when used to prop-up Reinbacher,

But this type of argument have been used in spades and so often to discredit Slafkovsky.

Pts and PPG are normal stats, when used to compare a player against a cohort (say: other 1OAs or other top5 picks or other rookies -- when evaluating his relative quality to the cohort) or within a date-range (say: a given season -- when evaluating his relative contribution to that season) are perfectly fine and ought to be encouraged. Those are as close to objective as stats can be... the point of hockey is to out-score your opponent, production is central to the whole affair.

Reinbacher is underproducing compared to last season, so naturally it follows that an analysis would provide a negative result. Gerrymandering stats to equivocate against this conclusion should be viewed with a lot of scrutiny. It could be that there are legitimate reasons (such as injury, coaching changes, etc) that justify to underproduction but fixing stats to say that his production is perfectly fine and in fact as good as ever is... alchemy. Fool's gold.

No comment on Slafkovsky, I don't do alchemy and if I do I assume you'd be quick to call me out on it.

 

[David Suzuki]

the top scorer on his team was a bad qmjhl player lol

i knew his team was bad but didn’t realize how rough it was lol

 

[montreal]

Do you think he is better than Broberg at 19?

who? Oliver Moore went 19th, I liked him a good bit.

Is it fair to expect a better season, or at the very least just as good a season, than last? I don't know the answer maybe someone can take a crack at it.

Because that's the issue with the alchemical breakdowns a la "if you go by d-men points for U20s, he's actually top10!" sorta comments. Very Grant McCagg.

If he's regressed from last year there must be some way to analyse the picture right? I didn't watch him but the Habs scouting staff sure did when they unanimously supported the pick -- is he making more mistakes than last year? Production is only one part of it, and it's not the most important aspect...

Yes you should expect a top 5 pick to have a better season as with prospects it's ALWAYS about PROGRESS or the lack of. A big problem with drafting 18 year olds is that some will just peak at 17, 18, 19, it happens for all sorts of various reasons and it can be very difficult to pick who will or won't progress. That's a huge part of why scouting is so hard and why the stats on the success rate for each round outside the 1st is so poor.

But looking at U-20 points, is 100% the correct thing to do for a similar reason why fans enjoy the WJC's, it's about seeing how they match up vs their AGE group. It's just a very valid thing. Now with the NL it's a bit different because that league is NOT known for U-20 players, it's likely the most sought after league for the guys that just couldn't cut it in the NHL for whatever reason, it's one of the top leagues in world because of those vets they get much like the KHL as I would assume they are the top 2 leagues outside the NHL (since I don't count the AHL as I never understood why people would compare a Development league to a pro league. I believe 95% of the AHL is owned by NHL teams so they are not as concerned with winning unlike the pro leagues that is mostly all they care about.

Though for my money the SHL is the best league outside the NHL as I don't know the NL that well due to it not being a league you often see prospects in.

But I'm glad you made the point about production is only one part and not the most important as that is something I think many miss as they put way too much into stats.

the top scorer on his team was a bad qmjhl player lol

i knew his team was bad but didn’t realize how rough it was lol

I wouldn't go blaming the team here, he's making some very basic mistakes that I didn't see him make last year but it's not been that many games as he's kind of bounced around between being over here and then going back a few weeks into the season over there and then getting injured the 3rd game and being out a couple weeks. So we'll see as I don't care how bad your team is, you can't make these kinds of errors consistently.

 

[Miller Time]

there's no harm in being disappointed if it's after 1 game. Being disappointed means nothing, he's either going to get back on track and improve or he won't, no one knows and it often takes a good bit of time to find out.

We all saw the tons of shit that "fans" threw at KK for years, and when Caufield had 1 goal or after the WJC's, how quickly fans turn on prospects, how little patience so many have. So we are always going to have to put up with nonsense posting as clearly so, so many fans seem to speak from emotions not from logic.

I don't know how anyone can watch these games and not be a little concerned or disappointed as we were sold at the draft that he's this high end defender but almost every game he's turning over the puck and some of them are just bad mistakes that he should not be making. But we don't know how much the injury has impacted him, or why he's struggling as in the games I saw last year he didn't have this kind of problems so often.

But I don't see any issues with being a little concerned or disappointed, it's a long process and he just needs to make improvements. He either will or he won't.

Don't disagree at all... It's a bit semantics, a bit differences of opinion on how development works.

I don't really see much point in "being a little concerned/disappointed" in a 12-game, injury affected sample size... Particularly one where he's still getting usage and production far ahead of the curve for a player his age in the league he's competing in.

He'd "look" better, undoubtedly, were he playing in the NCAA or OHL against weaker competition. The context matters more than some expectations seem to consider.

Is Hunter Brzustewicz a success & RB a disappointment because one is dominating a lesser league & the other having less of an impact in much harder league

What level of impact/production would RB need to show to be considered average vs a concern? What about excelling?

Expectations should align with standards & context (injury, team deployment, league quality et) ... I'm not sure I get the standards by which his play this year is concerning or disappointing... But I also expected that he'd have an ongoing learning progression that includes smaller ups & bigger downs than teens playing in CHL or NCAA .

 

[montreal]

Don't disagree at all... It's a bit semantics, a bit differences of opinion on how development works.

I don't really see much point in "being a little concerned/disappointed" in a 12-game, injury affected sample size... Particularly one where he's still getting usage and production far ahead of the curve for a player his age in the league he's competing in.

He'd "look" better, undoubtedly, were he playing in the NCAA or OHL against weaker competition. The context matters more than some expectations seem to consider.

Is Hunter Brzustewicz a success & RB a disappointment because one is dominating a lesser league & the other having less of an impact in much harder league

What level of impact/production would RB need to show to be considered average vs a concern? What about excelling?

Expectations should align with standards & context (injury, team deployment, league quality et) ... I'm not sure I get the standards by which his play this year is concerning or disappointing... But I also expected that he'd have an ongoing learning progression that includes smaller ups & bigger downs than teens playing in CHL or NCAA .

Of course context always matters and to me goes without saying. But I find people mistake calling things a success when they base it off points vs play. So is Brzustewicz a success? I would have to look at how he played last year vs this year, the games i've seen he's looked better and I was surprised he fell to where he did.

If Reinbacher was in the OHL like Dvorsky had to after struggling in the SHL from what i've read as don't know much about him, but if he was in the OHL and putting up tons of points but turning the puck over night after night then no I wouldn't call it a success.

Take Mesar as an example. Fans are hyped on him because of all the points he's put up this year, if you watch his game last year and then this year, what's different? What's improved that warrants the hype or is it because his team is playing much better. And then as a playmaker mostly, he can't be blamed if his linemates say can't convert on what players at the next level would be able to convert.

 

[admiralcadillac]

He's one point behind the top scoring defenceman on his team in 17 less games. I just don't think the team is very good at the offence thing tbh

Lmao this needs to be repeated ad nauseum

 

[admiralcadillac]

It’s convenient that Reinbacher was praised and pumped for doing well in a pro league in his D year but now the usual (incredibly annoying) voices say that Reinbacher’s underperformance should be excused because he happens to be playing in a pro league in his D+1. The playing well in the pro league is the whole reason he was drafted at 5OA.

I think it’s entirely fair and normal to expect growth/progression from a top5 draft pick, one who allegedly smoked the Swiss League last season and earned a bunch of hype.

It isn’t “hater” to notice that the hype (for Reinbacher) has switched to scorn (against fans) just as it does every time when there is a disappointing event.

He’s coming back from injury and his team is somehow really bad this year. There are plenty of built-in excuses for his struggles this year. His age and his league at not excuses — he was better in the same league least year. Have some standards.

The only thing that’s incredibly annoying is people who don’t watch prospects look up hockeydb then shit all over an 18 year old, sometimes several thousand times over.

 

[ReHabs]

The only thing that’s incredibly annoying is people who don’t watch prospects look up hockeydb then shit all over an 18 year old, sometimes several thousand times over.

In a rebuilding effort all we have to discuss are our prospects. Some break down tape, others break down stats and analytics. It’s rather fun.

Nobody should be insulting young players or any players. Nor other commentators, for that matter. This is meant to be a discussion board, some civility and sympathy goes a long way.

 

[admiralcadillac]

In a rebuilding effort all we have to discuss are our prospects. Some break down tape, others break down stats and analytics. It’s rather fun.

Nobody should be insulting young players or any players. Nor other commentators, for that matter. This is meant to be a discussion board, some civility and sympathy goes a long way.

The veneer of smug civility wears thin when you call people annoying in the first place. I was responding to your post and I’m sorry some people decide to be excited rather than cynical.

 

[ReHabs]

The veneer of smug civility wears thin when you call people annoying in the first place. I was responding to your post and I’m sorry some people decide to be excited rather than cynical.

You don’t need to apologize for your enthusiasm. Disingenuous toxic optimists have ruined many online sports fandoms. An even keel is best… we just went through 10 years of a cult of personality with Marc Bergevin and to the very last day and beyond he had defenders. The whole “trust the process” stuff is a scam. We shouldn’t be afraid to admit it when our favourite team or its players are not successful in a given situation or for a time.

As for my use of the word annoying, I use the term commentators to mostly refer to the media. They’re not journalists because they don’t report or research… they just commentate. Glorified posters. They’re terrible.

 

[Scriptor]

You don’t need to apologize for your enthusiasm. Disingenuous toxic optimists have ruined many online sports fandoms. An even keel is best… we just went through 10 years of a cult of personality with Marc Bergevin and to the very last day and beyond he had defenders. The whole “trust the process” stuff is a scam. We shouldn’t be afraid to admit it when our favourite team or its players are not successful in a given situation or for a time.

As for my use of the word annoying, I use the term commentators to mostly refer to the media. They’re not journalists because they don’t report or research… they just commentate. Glorified posters. They’re terrible.

Disingenuous toxic optimists

WTF is that supposed to be?

I agree that posters should post with an even keel,but your definition of an even keel must vary greatly from mine?

It sounds alarmingly like posters who say they are realists, as opposed to other posters, implying, quite bluntly, that, if you don't agree with them, you're fabulating or, quite simply, wrong.

Can't agree with your take that you are inherently right and that those that disagree with you are out to lunch.

 

[ReHabs]

WTF is that supposed to be?

I agree that posters should post with an even keel,but your definition of an even keel must vary greatly from mine?

It sounds alarmingly like posters who say they are realists, as opposed to other posters, implying, quite bluntly, that, if you don't agree with them, you're fabulating or, quite simply, wrong.

Can't agree with your take that you are inherently right and that those that disagree with you are out to lunch.

Not at all. Don’t worry. I don’t think I am inherently right — there would be no reason to post on a discussion forum if one felt they were always correct.

Toxic Optimists are a groupthink/hivemind phenomenon made most famous in the socially online era. The phrases “trust the process” or “in [GM] we trust!” come to mind. Every fanbase has them, they are fanboys or homers but more aggressive. Otherwise, it is perfectly normal for there to be optimistic fans and pessimistic fans and commentators who see upsides to everything and those who see downsides. Absent results, I’m clearly a more pessimistic commentator. I don’t think everybody should have the same opinions as I do... and I know they won’t.

In the case of Reinbacher, the argument that praised him for scoring points as a teenager in a not-development league is now making excuses that Reinbacher shouldn’t be expected to score points because he’s a teenager in a not-development league. That’s a bullshit argument pressed by toxic optimists.

 

[tazsub3]

Not at all. Don’t worry. I don’t think I am inherently right — there would be no reason to post on a discussion forum if one felt they were always correct.

Toxic Optimists are a groupthink/hivemind phenomenon made most famous in the socially online era. The phrases “trust the process” or “in [GM] we trust!” come to mind. Every fanbase has them, they are fanboys or homers but more aggressive. Otherwise, it is perfectly normal for there to be optimistic fans and pessimistic fans and commentators who see upsides to everything and those who see downsides. Absent results, I’m clearly a more pessimistic commentator. I don’t think everybody should have the same opinions as I do... and I know they won’t.

In the case of Reinbacher, the argument that praised him for scoring points as a teenager in a not-development league is now making excuses that Reinbacher shouldn’t be expected to score points because he’s a teenager in a not-development league. That’s a bullshit argument pressed by toxic optimists.

Toxic optimist …. Lol damn I thought I had heard it all . But that sure is new