Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[Miller Time]

I can say with confidence that Reinbacher has been abysmal so far this year, he's had a horrendous stretch, am I saying he's a bust? No will be become a top 4 Dman? I'm not sure

To make that claim "he's been abysmal", based on a 9 game sample size that included a multi-week injury, yet on his return is getting ~20min/night & PP1 duties, is the epitome of a "bad take".

It's these kinds of takes that aren't so much "difference of opinion" as they are evidence of baseless hyperbole.

 

[Gravity]

And that's all fair and good dude,
But then you have "f*** should of taken michkov" posts in the GDT 4 months after the draft and its like
Wtf are we supposed to do with that lol
It's watching someone else unable to "deal" with their own personal feelings about how they feel about what they THINK is the immediate result of a choice made.. which we wont actually have any results for 2 and a half years at the mininum..

We tell you and a couple others to have patience about the whole thing but it's positively toxic so it's like f*** us i guess then right? lmao.

Listen man, people are allowed to say they want Michkov just like people are allowed to say wait for Rein. Especially after a decade + of poor F drafting. People are allowed to express their opinions. If you don't like those opinions, the ignore button is available. Everyone and their grandmothers knows to reserve complete judgement until both play in the NHL. You don't have divine insight into the matter by preaching patience.

You're making my point. I never labelled anyone as exhibiting toxic positivity nor did I lament for Michkov in GDTs. I simply made a comparison between draft day Juolevi and Reinbacher which then prompted me being labelled as a Reinbacher 'hater' and also somehow managed to clump me into the Slaf, Mesar and Beck hater category. This is tribalism at finest, and frankly hysterical.

 

[Scriptor]

I said so at the time, but the idea that Michkov was high-risk was faulty in my opinion.

Michkov was that low-risk, high upside pick that fell in our lap at 5. Imo, a player like Reinbacher carries a lot more "risk" (in terms of becoming an impact player).

The probability of Michkov becoming a star NHLer is significantly higher than the probability of Reinbacher becoming a star NHLer (obviously, in my opinion). That is why Michkov was lower risk.

Key phrase in most posters' opinions, so,asalways, neither here nor there until the proof rests in the pudding.

Listen man, people are allowed to say they want Michkov just like people are allowed to say wait for Rein. Especially after a decade + of poor F drafting. People are allowed to express their opinions. If you don't like those opinions, the ignore button is available. Everyone and their grandmothers knows to reserve complete judgement until both play in the NHL. You don't have divine insight into the matter by preaching patience.

You're making my point. I never labelled anyone as exhibiting toxic positivity nor did I lament for Michkov in GDTs. I simply made between comparison to draft day Juolevi and Reinbacher which then prompted me being labelled as a Reinbacher 'hater' and also somehow managed to clump me into the Slaf, Mesar and Beck hater category. This is tribalism at finest, and frankly hysterical.

Nobody faults you your right to hate that many players

 

[Gravity]

Key phrase in most posters' opinions, so,asalways, neither here nor there until the proof rests in the pudding.


Nobody faults you your right to hate that many players

I don't hate anybody. Why would I? Reinbacher turning into a 1D is the best situation for this team long-term. Why on Earth would I cheer for anything but his success? Sure he wasn't my #1 choice on draft day but he's what we have now.

 

[Scriptor]

I don't hate anybody. Why would I? Reinbacher turning into a 1D is the best situation for this team long-term. Why on Earth would I cheer for anything but his success? Sure he wasn't my #1 choice on draft day but he's what we have now.

I'm just kidding -- good-naturedly testing at the same time. It's a chat forum, nothing more...

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I said so at the time, but the idea that Michkov was high-risk was faulty in my opinion.

Michkov was that low-risk, high upside pick that fell in our lap at 5. Imo, a player like Reinbacher carries a lot more "risk" (in terms of becoming an impact player).

The probability of Michkov becoming a star NHLer is significantly higher than the probability of Reinbacher becoming a star NHLer (obviously, in my opinion). That is why Michkov was lower risk.

The reasons for passing on Michkov can not be dismissed as of yet and he certainly was a high risk pick for Montreal when he was not so secretly meeting with Philadelphia.

There were and still are serious flags with Michkov and I am not as impressed as some by him once again not being deemed good enough for SKA and playing what is very likely irresponsible, one dimensional hockey on a bottom feeder.

There were and are very serious questions about his attitude and I can guarantee you that the Habs know much more about that than any of his ardent supporters on this board.

This is not to say that I was against taking him at all. I just believed, as I did with Wright that he was very likely the best talent available but if HuGo dug deeper than any of us remotely can and found worms then I was ok with passing on them.

As of today Michkov still represents the same perceived risk that he carried with him on draft day and pretending that this has somehow been conclusively put to rest is an opinion without supporting evidence.

 

[Redux91]

Lol alright jesus relax big guy, I get you feel a little 'targeted'
But when you say something like

I simply made a comparison between draft day Juolevi and Reinbacher

What exactly are you trying to instigate if not the Mr. M and Mr. R debate? What replies are you expecting exactly..?
Like help us out here lol

So you don't want to hear about "be patient with Reinbacher for at least a couple years" that's cool, I get it
Youre right theres 0 guarantee being patient means Reinbacher will turn into a hall of famer

But you compare him to an as of the moment bust...?
I mean what are we supposed to take away from the post??

 

[Gravity]

Lol alright jesus relax big guy, I get you feel a little 'targeted'
But when you say something like


What exactly are you trying to instigate if not the Mr. M and Mr. R debate? What replies are you expecting exactly..?
Like help us out here lol

So you don't want to hear about "be patient with Reinbacher for at least a couple years" that's cool, I get it
Youre right theres 0 guarantee being patient means Reinbacher will turn into a hall of famer

But you compare him to an as of the moment bust...?
I mean what are we supposed to take away from the post??

Juolevi is a bust because of injuries. In his draft year (drafted 5th OV), he was touted as a highly intelligent 2-way D with a great breakout pass. Perhaps I should've phrased my initial statement better to "How do Reinbacher's tools compare to say a Juolevi?".

I phrased it ambiguously so that is a mea culpa.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Juolevi is a bust because of injuries. In his draft year (drafted 5th OV), he was touted as a highly intelligent 2-way D with a great breakout pass. Perhaps I should've phrased my initial statement better to "How do Reinbacher's tools compare to say a Juolevi?".

I phrased it ambiguously so that is a mea culpa.

To be fair Juolevi was and is only an average skater and his offensive totals were inflated while playing with London, especially in his draft year. Average skater, average skills and soft in his own end......Reinbacher is quite literally better in every facet of the game although I do have concerns about his offensive upside but it is still early in his development and he could very well take off.

My concerns with Reinbacher have never been about him busting but becoming more of a Noah Hanifin type who end up looking like a low upside, safe pick that seems to be too safe for a 5th OA selection. If he ends up being a 2nd pairing dman it would not be the end of the world by any means but I think most of us hope for more with such valuable draft capital.

 

[nhlfan9191]

The reasons for passing on Michkov can not be dismissed as of yet and he certainly was a high risk pick for Montreal when he was not so secretly meeting with Philadelphia.

There were and still are serious flags with Michkov and I am not as impressed as some by him once again not being deemed good enough for SKA playing what is very likely irresponsible, one dimensional hockey on a bottom feeder.

There were and are very serious questions about his attitude and I can guarantee you that the Habs know much more about that than any of his ardent supporters on this board.

This is not to say that I was against taking him at all. I just believed, as I did with Wright that he was very likely the best talent available but if HuGo dug deeper than any of us remotely can and found worms then I was ok with passing on them.

As of today Michkov still represents the same perceived risk that he carried with him on draft day and pretending that this has somehow been conclusively put to rest is an opinion without supporting evidence.

I’ve said this on repeat but if we’re going off only talent, Michkov was by far the 2nd most talented player in that draft outside of Bedard. The fact 3 teams before us passed on him was a bit of a red flag in and of itself. There may have been a drop off in talent after the first 4 picks, but there was clearly something that was scaring GM’s off of the player. We weren’t the only ones seeing it.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I’ve said this on repeat but if we’re going off only talent, Michkov was by far the 2nd most talented player in that draft outside of Bedard. The fact 3 teams before us passed on him was a bit of a red flag in and of itself. There may have been a drop off in talent after the first 4 picks, but there was clearly something that was scaring GM’s off of the player. We weren’t the only ones seeing it.

I liked Carlsson much more than Michkov and think he will be a better offensive player in the NHL and a far superior over all player. IMO Carlsson was closer to Bedard than Fantilli or Michkov were closer to Carlsson. That being said, there was little doubt that Michkov was the most talented player available when Montreal drafted but I am absolutely ok with passing on him if HuGo had uncovered serious concerns about his character. I want to win championships and care very little about individuals....especially prima donnas who put themselves above the team.

Perhaps Michkov turns out to be a great team player and rivals Bedard for scoring championships, I just think there were likely too many red lags to suggest this to be an likely scenario. I know nothing more than anyone else about Michkov but I do know that Montreal has very good connections with those that do and it seems as though something certainly spooked them.

Reinbacher vs Michkov is far from settled and I am content to wait for more evidence before digging in and taking sides on the issue.

 

[Sorinth]

I said so at the time, but the idea that Michkov was high-risk was faulty in my opinion.

Michkov was that low-risk, high upside pick that fell in our lap at 5. Imo, a player like Reinbacher carries a lot more "risk" (in terms of becoming an impact player).

The probability of Michkov becoming a star NHLer is significantly higher than the probability of Reinbacher becoming a star NHLer (obviously, in my opinion). That is why Michkov was lower risk.

But you're only factoring in one kind of risk. What if Michkov ends up going back and forth between NHL and KHL like Radulov did. Nashville got basically 2 seasons and a playoff run out of drafting Radulov. So there's a very real argument that despite being the BPA at that pick Nashville would have been better off taking a worse player who would've actually ended up playing for them. Or what if at the first disagreement with the coach he's going demands a trade like PLD? Hard to argue he's the right pick in that situation.

Now I have no special insight into whether that's something Michkov would do and since I don't put much stock into the "bad character" rumors it's easy for me as a fan to simply dismiss that stuff and only look at the talent/skill. And that's why Michkov was the guy I wanted us to pick. But if it was actually my job on line making those decisions I wouldn't simply dismiss that stuff out of hand, I would very much need to dig into it to get a real sense of the person and not just the player. And frankly that character assessment is an important aspect even when there aren't rumors and drama surrounding the player.

 

[Gravity]

To be fair Juolevi was and is only an average skater and his offensive totals were inflated while playing with London, especially in his draft year. Average skater, average skills and soft in his own end......Reinbacher is quite literally better in every facet of the game although I do have concerns about his offensive upside but it is still early in his development and he could very well take off.

My concerns with Reinbacher have never been about him busting but becoming more of a Noah Hanifin type who end up looking like a low upside, safe pick that seems to be too safe for a 5th OA selection. If he ends up being a 2nd pairing dman it would not be the end of the world by any means but I think most of us hope for more with such valuable draft capital.

Thanks for the info. So it seems like Hanifin low end and Pietrangelo high end.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Thanks for the info. So it seems like Hanifin low end and Pietrangelo high end.

I would say Hanifin is more mid range than low end and yes, I think Pietrangelo is close to a perfect comp for his high end. Perhaps Brett Pesce or Adam Pelech would be closer to lower end expectations.

 

[montreal]

Seems that being concerned means negative. Yet, I reserve the right to look at Jacob Fowler having maybe 2 bad games in a row and still feel that this guy is the real deal or has a REAL potential of a NHL starter. Just like I reserve the right to look at Mesar having a heck of start in the OHL and not be sure about his NHL potential.

Yeah, everything is about waiting and seeing. Yes, we have to wait 4-5 years before we have an opinion. Strangely, when we come back after 4-5 years, we are being told that it's hindsight. Or that....what's the point it's in the past. All of this on a message board. Strange.

I will always believe that ANY claim of a prospect being a bust or an all-star till D+3 is premature. Obviously. But if positively we could be excited, I think we could also be concerned and have doubts. No idea why we can't.

Also, it's not about being right. 'Cause if we say all this on this board, just a quick search and it's easy to know if somebody said something or not...lol

Let's be honest though...right now the issues are NOT about Slaf and Reinbacher. They are about who was passed over and who RIGHT now looks better. Which in the end, might or might not mean anything when it counts the most. But it's normal right now for any human being who sees Michkov, Benson, Kulich or anybody that does well to hate seeing it....ESPECIALLY when this Habs team have all the trouble in the world to have any kind of offensive game since Damphousse, Turgeon and freakin Stéphane Richer...

My issues are more with the picks and not who they picked, so I don't do much scouting outside of a game that a Hab prospect is playing in. I didn't want Michkov or Wright.

It's so early but I have to say I struggle to make heads or tails of Reinbacher so far. I've just been surprised at what i've seen and it's not good. On the other hand you can easily dream on the tools and see how in 5 years he could be a stud top pairing D. It's just that this season he doesn't look like someone I would want to pick top 20 so it's a little concerning with how poorly we have done in the 1st round drafting/developing.

I've stated I'm no Mesar fan as I would not have picked him, not a fan of his game at all other then he can really dish it and can enter the zone with the puck at high speed, something we badly need. But he's so soft and gets pushed off pucks so easily. I don't care how many points he puts up in juniors, if he doesn't get his nose dirty more I can't see him being anything close to say Drouin was (who when healthy could be a 50 pt guy).

Slaf I just haven't paid much attention to as I try to catch the Habs but i hate seeing them lose and they just flat out suck to watch as it's no fun at all as I just don't see much good on this team and think we could be in very serious trouble here. Slaf I hear he's looking much better of late but when I watch I see someone that the game looks too fast for, he can't think quick enough, the playmaking hasn't impressed me, he looks sluggish at times. I like the shot but not much else. But again I barely get to see the Habs.

 

[Hacketts]

My issues are more with the picks and not who they picked, so I don't do much scouting outside of a game that a Hab prospect is playing in. I didn't want Michkov or Wright.

It's so early but I have to say I struggle to make heads or tails of Reinbacher so far. I've just been surprised at what i've seen and it's not good. On the other hand you can easily dream on the tools and see how in 5 years he could be a stud top pairing D. It's just that this season he doesn't look like someone I would want to pick top 20 so it's a little concerning with how poorly we have done in the 1st round drafting/developing.

I've stated I'm no Mesar fan as I would not have picked him, not a fan of his game at all other then he can really dish it and can enter the zone with the puck at high speed, something we badly need. But he's so soft and gets pushed off pucks so easily. I don't care how many points he puts up in juniors, if he doesn't get his nose dirty more I can't see him being anything close to say Drouin was (who when healthy could be a 50 pt guy).

Slaf I just haven't paid much attention to as I try to catch the Habs but i hate seeing them lose and they just flat out suck to watch as it's no fun at all as I just don't see much good on this team and think we could be in very serious trouble here. Slaf I hear he's looking much better of late but when I watch I see someone that the game looks too fast for, he can't think quick enough, the playmaking hasn't impressed me, he looks sluggish at times. I like the shot but not much else. But again I barely get to see the Habs.

What weaknesses are you seeing this season?

 

[montreal]

What weaknesses are you seeing this season?

He's struggling with the puck, at times he handles it like a grenade, his decision making, too many turnovers for someone that is said to be his main strength. Even positionally i've seen some mistakes.

For someone that's supposed to elite defensively, so far he's looked anything but. The offense has surprised me a bit as he can move the puck but so far between this season and last he's got 3 goals with a goalie in net so I do wonder how much offensive upside there is.

That said unlike say Romanov when he was in the KHL or Engstrom/Norlinder in the SHL, I knew those leagues way, way better as before Reinbacher we just didn't have prospects in the NL or NLA as it used to be called. So aside from when Hudon was there, I just haven't seen very many games of the NL at all but by the end of the season I will likely have seen just about every game he plays so I will know the league much better.

 

[Miller Time]

I’ve said this on repeat but if we’re going off only talent, Michkov was by far the 2nd most talented player in that draft outside of Bedard. The fact 3 teams before us passed on him was a bit of a red flag in and of itself. There may have been a drop off in talent after the first 4 picks, but there was clearly something that was scaring GM’s off of the player. We weren’t the only ones seeing it.

3 before us & 1 after us... 5 teams passing on a kid that talented certainly does point to a risk factor observed by multiple scouting departments

 

[nhlfan9191]

3 before us & 1 after us... 5 teams passing on a kid that talented certainly does point to a risk factor observed by multiple scouting departments

I don’t count Arizona just because I think they would’ve taken a chance on him if there was any chance he would’ve reported. Especially since we took Reinbacher. But that was a little odd as well. Him basically having a list he would report too reeks of entitlement, even if it is Arizona.

 

[Hacketts]

He's struggling with the puck, at times he handles it like a grenade, his decision making, too many turnovers for someone that is said to be his main strength. Even positionally i've seen some mistakes.

For someone that's supposed to elite defensively, so far he's looked anything but. The offense has surprised me a bit as he can move the puck but so far between this season and last he's got 3 goals with a goalie in net so I do wonder how much offensive upside there is.

That said unlike say Romanov when he was in the KHL or Engstrom/Norlinder in the SHL, I knew those leagues way, way better as before Reinbacher we just didn't have prospects in the NL or NLA as it used to be called. So aside from when Hudon was there, I just haven't seen very many games of the NL at all but by the end of the season I will likely have seen just about every game he plays so I will know the league much better.

thanks

 

[Miller Time]

I don’t count Arizona just because I think they would’ve taken a chance on him if there was any chance he would’ve reported. Especially since we took Reinbacher. But that was a little odd as well. Him basically having a list he would report too reeks of entitlement, even if it is Arizona.

I didn't know that was a confirmed thing lol

If it was, no wonder he fell like that. That kind of entitlement doesn't bode well for him fitting into a Tortorella coached team, he & Briere better hope Torts is long gone before he comes over (whereas I'm grabbing

 

[Habaddict]

Bang on! The fact that people of this board label any criticism as being a 'hater' is rudimentary tribalism at it's finest. No you are not special. Everyone's opinion or questions regarding prospects is valid without them being branded a 'hater' or being 'toxic positive'.

I'm glad you feel that it is fine "tribalism". When a group
of people get together to talk about the same team, that
they all cheer for, and for many it is their home town, it
is "tribalism"

 

[Gravity]

I'm glad you feel that it is fine "tribalism". When a group
of people get together to talk about the same team, that
they all cheer for, and for many it is their home town, it
is "tribalism"

Yes it is. So is nationalism, political beliefs and religious followings. Your point?

 

[Habaddict]

Yes it is. So is nationalism, political beliefs and religious followings. Your point?

Humor, and some just being pedantic.

 

[Habaddict]

Humor, and some just being pedantic.

Although, if you'd like a more sober answer, you're
examples are far more serious ! I posted that for fun.
Using the word sober in a sentence, by me right now,
is an abuse of the english.