Player Discussion Kaiden Guhle

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We have an abundance of LD. Why would we not consider trading Guhle to get that elusive 2C. Like HabsMD97 said, Guhle should not be untouchable like Hutson or Demidov. Completely agree and I also completely agree that Guhle should not be traded, but to say he is an untouchable is a bit over the board. I would completely change my tune if we had no left D, but as a reminder, we have: Hutson, Matheson, Xhekaj, and Engstrom. You have to be willing to give up quality to get quality.

Guhle is worth more than a 2C
 
We have an abundance of LD. Why would we not consider trading Guhle to get that elusive 2C. Like HabsMD97 said, Guhle should not be untouchable like Hutson or Demidov. Completely agree and I also completely agree that Guhle should not be traded, but to say he is an untouchable is a bit over the board. I would completely change my tune if we had no left D, but as a reminder, we have: Hutson, Matheson, Xhekaj, and Engstrom. You have to be willing to give up quality to get quality.
no no you can get Byfield for a 7th round pick! That's what Hfboards taught me.
 
Guhle is a superior player, bar none. Miller has struggled for two years now and Guhle isn't prone to the same mistakes. Guhle has been fantastic whether the team has been a tire fire or not. In any event, there aren't many player of Miller's profile either, as your small list has shown.

If you read what I said it was: "Other players like Lindholm, Sanheim and Brodin were almost untouchable for years". It took 9 years and him being a UFA, a first, a former first and a second to get him, as an impending UFA. This validates what I'm saying. Rare type of player who's rarely available and difficult to replace.

As far as Gavrikov goes, why would he sign with Montreal ? He's been in the US his whole career and there's no reason to think he'll go on a team that already has two LDs with prominent roles. If Montreal can sign anyone, then this discussion doesn't take place, because they'll just sign Bennett with the Gavrikov money right ? No need to trade a young player that's part of the core then. Reality is there are certain profiles that are rare and difficult to acquire. If you're trading them, you better make sure there's a low risk high upside return and a realistic plan that follows.
Did I just find Bergevin's burner account? Trades are hard! No one wants to come to MTL! Playstation! If the habs want to take the next step they'll need to make some good free agent signings. Teams don't win cups with a group of 22 year olds. Young players will 1000% be traded like it or not. Also I named almost a dozen players and some probably missing like Broberg. I recommend watching him tonight and still try to pretend they're aren't players like Guhle that can be had lol. How'd St Louis get him? But yes it's so hard to do anything, might as well sit on our hands.
 
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Guhle is worth more than a 2C
Depends on the 2C. An aging 2C? no. Byfield is worth more, Barzal (if he switches back to C) is worth more, Beniers is worth slightly more, Cirelli is worth more, Lundell is probably equal value if not more, Wright is worth more. They're aren't a whole lot of young 2Cs in the league so they should be worth more. There are less 2Cs under 25 than there are players like Guhle.
 
Depends on the 2C. An aging 2C? no. Byfield is worth more, Barzal (if he switches back to C) is worth more, Beniers is worth slightly more, Cirelli is worth more, Lundell is probably equal value if not more, Wright is worth more. They're aren't a whole lot of young 2Cs in the league so they should be worth more. There are less 2Cs under 25 than there are players like Guhle.

I wouldn't trade Guhle for Berniers or Wright.
 
Guhle is a 3rd defenseman, I would say his value = a good 2nd line center.
Understand where you're coming from but I wouldn't trade him for a 2nd line center. At minimum it'd have to be for a young 2nd line center with the potential to become a first. But a 2nd line center? I'd turn that down.

I can't wait for him and RB to be in the lineup next year with Demidov.
 
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Did I just find Bergevin's burner account? Trades are hard! No one wants to come to MTL! Playstation! If the habs want to take the next step they'll need to make some good free agent signings. Teams don't win cups with a group of 22 year olds. Young players will 1000% be traded like it or not. Also I named almost a dozen players and some probably missing like Broberg. I recommend watching him tonight and still try to pretend they're aren't players like Guhle that can be had lol. How'd St Louis get him? But yes it's so hard to do anything, might as well sit on our hands.

Why are you getting riled up ? This has been a pretty tame discussion up to now. I don't mind continuing, but not if you're going to reply with that kind of tone and condescension.

Like I said, I disagree with your assessments of the players you mentioned and keep mentioning. Guhle has dimensions to his game and an IQ that's superior to both of the similarly aged (well, older) you've brought forth.

I also disagree with the notion that a UFA can be brought up as a realistic option with no context or reason for why he would choose Montreal of all places, because it sounds more like magical thinking than anything else. And if money is the answer, then it defeats the purpose of what management has been building.

I'll also disagree with the relevance of age for this precise player. Guhle has not shown any of the issues you usually find in his age group, for example with players like Miller and Broberg, adding to his value. He will not be 22 once the team is ready to contend either, so this point is also moot. If an alternative to trading Guhle is for that 2C is available, that's what I find should be prioritized.
 
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Understand where you're coming from but I wouldn't trade him for a 2nd line center. At minimum it'd have to be for a young 2nd line center with the potential to become a first. But a 2nd line center? I'd turn that down.

I can't wait for him and RB to be in the lineup next year with Demidov.
Who in the world would trade a young 2C with potential to be a 1C for Guhle? Would you have traded Suzuki after the 21-22 season for Guhle?
 
Who in the world would trade a young 2C with potential to be a 1C for Guhle? Would you have traded Suzuki after the 21-22 season for Guhle?
Guhle's a 23 year old bluelliner who's already playing at a really high level. I think he's got 1st pairing potential. Does everything well. Is phyiscal, can score... yeah. So yeah, I'm not trading him for a guy who doesn't have first line potential.

To be honest, I don't want to trade him at all.
 
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Why are you getting riled up ? This has been a pretty tame discussion up to now. I don't mind continuing, but not if you're going to reply with that kind of tone and condescension.

Like I said, I disagree with your assessments of the players you mentioned and keep mentioning. Guhle has dimensions to his game and an IQ that's superior to both of the similarly aged (well, older) you've brought forth.

I also disagree with the notion that a UFA can be brought up as a realistic option with no context or reason for why he would choose Montreal of all places, because it sounds more like magical thinking than anything else. And if money is the answer, then it defeats the purpose of what management has been building.

I'll also disagree with the relevance of age for this precise player. Guhle has not shown any of the issues you usually find in his age group, for example with players like Miller and Broberg, adding to his value. He will not be 22 once the team is ready to contend either, so this point is also moot. If an alternative to trading Guhle is for that 2C is available, that's what I find should be prioritized.
Well I apologize if it seems like I'm riled up, what did I say that was out of line?
Miller was literally the #2 defenceman on the presidents cup winning team last year. Guhle over Miller is just pure homerism i'm sorry, one down year doesn't change that.
 
Guhle's a 23 year old bluelliner who's already playing at a really high level. I think he's got 1st pairing potential. Does everything well. Is phyiscal, can score... yeah. So yeah, I'm not trading him for a guy who doesn't have first line potential.

To be honest, I don't want to trade him at all.
You didn't answer my question though. Suzuki became a true #1 C last year, before that he was a good young 2C. Do you think today's Guhle has as much value as Suzuki had back then?
 
You didn't answer my question though. Suzuki became a true #1 C last year, before that he was a good young 2C. Do you think today's Guhle has as much value as Suzuki had back then?
Back then? Yes.

It's situational though. Is the team stacked with forwards or blueliners? That will change the equation. But all things being equal you have a potential 1C for a potential 1D. Makes sense to me unless you don't believe in the potential.
 
Back then? Yes.

It's situational though. Is the team stacked with forwards or blueliners? That will change the equation. But all things being equal you have a potential 1C for a potential 1D. Makes sense to me unless you don't believe in the potential.
Well I guess it comes back to our respective evaluation of Guhle. I don't think he has #1 D potential, I also don't think you should take a #1D over a #1C. It's easier to get defenceman than it is to get Centers. Just look at Florida, their #1 D was picked off of waivers. A defenceman has less impact on a team's defence than a center has to a teams offence.
 
Well I guess it comes back to our respective evaluation of Guhle. I don't think he has #1 D potential, I also don't think you should take a #1D over a #1C. It's easier to get defenceman than it is to get Centers. Just look at Florida, their #1 D was picked off of waivers. A defenceman has less impact on a team's defence than a center has to a teams offence.
I don't think it's ever that simple. I'll take a winger over a center or a goalie over a defenseman or whatever if I believe in the player.

You don't believe Guhle has number one potential? That's okay. I think he's going to be limited in terms of offensive opportunities because Hutson's going to eat up that time. But that's usage, not ability. Guhle is pretty freaking great for being 23 years old. Most blueliners are just breaking into the league at that age.
 
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Well I apologize if it seems like I'm riled up, what did I say that was out of line?
Miller was literally the #2 defenceman on the presidents cup winning team last year. Guhle over Miller is just pure homerism i'm sorry, one down year doesn't change that.

It isn't pure homerism. Guhle is simply a (far) superior defender defensively and other than one outlier year for Miller up to now, does not give up much offense in comparison. Miller is prone to gaffes and is still a work in progress defensively. Guhle played on a tire fire team defensively last year, but yet we can barely point out his mistakes even if he was consistently thrown to the wolves, including against McDavid and Mackinnon. He did it while being two years younger. I don't find Miller's decision making or positioning to be anywhere near Guhles. It's not a matter of homerism (which is about as strange a comment to say to me considering some of my opinions on our players vs others), but simply of watching both play extensively. Miller I've been watching since his draft year. And while it isn't a very solid piece of evidence, simply go through the Miller thread on the Rangers board from last season to this season and see how they feel about his defensive abilities.

Edit: I cannot even imagine someone saying something like this about Guhle :
"I hate to even say it because I was so damn high on this player but K'Andre just has a 10 cent head. Thats his biggest issue. The second issue with the player is there is just zero fight in this dog" or having anyone call him soft.
 
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Well I apologize if it seems like I'm riled up, what did I say that was out of line?
Miller was literally the #2 defenceman on the presidents cup winning team last year. Guhle over Miller is just pure homerism i'm sorry, one down year doesn't change that.

K'Andre Miller is not good defensively, if you think he's a #2D and better than Guhle, you should watch him play and ask Rangers fans.
 

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