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Player Discussion David Quinn: Part V

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Tawnos said:
The bad teams we're talking about here are the Sabres, Devils, and Flyers right?

Rangers PP vs those 3: 26% (vs the other 4: 12%)
Washington: 31% (vs the other 4: 20%)
Boston: 34% (vs the other 4: 15%)
Pittsburgh: 31% (vs the other 4: 15%)

Looks to me like those other three powerplays got to where they are by beating up on the bad teams all season, while the Rangers only started doing it relatively recently. If the Rangers produced PP goals against those 3 teams like the other teams we're looking at did, their season ranking would jump to 18th.

Did you think no one would look at your claims in this post?
Click to expand...
Is 18th supposed to be some sort of “success”? The first 2 months (sorry the first 45 days) of the season the team significantly underperformed with no changes made. It was rinse and repeat.

And all you did was prove my point, that the better PP teams with better PP success/structure have been more consistent all year long. You guys are the ones trying to stake a claim the PP is just fine because of the past month of “success” when the 1st unit, and to a lesser extent the 2nd unit, have the same underlying problems. You want to be blind to that, all the more power to you. Nothings changed in the past month other than the Rangers abusing a pathetic Flyers team.

Lets see how they do against Pittsburgh and the Islanders. They are heavily reliant on making the perfect pass with less shots on net. And they are heavily reliant on Zibanejad’s slapshot. They have so much talent on the 1st unit and really the team. The coaches could you know, intervene, and force these guys to shoot the damn puck. Or put a lefty on the right wall.
 
I was bored this morning and ran some TOI numbers for top picks over the last 15 years. This is 1 & 2 OA forwards in their rookie years. Some general observations:
  • Kakko and Lafreniere are towards the low end of the spectrum on both total / PP TOI relative to other players picked where they were picked.
  • There are likely many contributing factors to this - their abilities at 19 relative to other top picks, the position depth ahead of them on the NYR relative to other teams on this list, the NYR management/coaching philosophy regarding prospect development, and the league as a whole getting faster and more skilled.
  • The most optimistic rationale for Lafreniere/Kakko ranking low on this list would be to look at Tyler Seguin. He developed fine despite low TOI in his rookie year. The question I would pose is, would have have followed the same trajectory in Boston or did the change of scenery pay off? I would also challenge that the 2010-11 Bruins who won the Stanley Cup probably have more of a leg to stand on in terms of giving Seguin a short leash than the playoff bubble 2020-21 NYR.
My 2 cents: Objectively, they are getting less ice time than top picks usually get. Yes, part of this is undoubtedly the unique situation they find themselves in...being drafted by a team that has a lot of talent on the wings during an odd pandemic season. But they NYR ultimately have to own this. They are either explicitly or implicitly choosing this path...a path that is materially different than most teams choose to take. It sure better work.


[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD="align: center"]
Rank ​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Player​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Rookie Year​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Age​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Total Avg TOI​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
1​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Eichel​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2015-16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19:07​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
2​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
McDavid​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2015-16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
18:53​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
3​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Landeskog​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2011-12​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
18:37​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
4​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
P Kane​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2007-08​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
18:22​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
5​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Hall​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2010-11​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
18:13​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
6​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Tavares​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2009-10​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
18:00​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
7​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Laine​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2016-17​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
17:55​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
8​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
RNH​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2011-12​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
17:37​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
9​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Matthews​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2016-17​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
17:37​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
10​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
MacKinnon​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2013-14​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
17:20​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
11​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Barkov​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2013-14​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
17:06​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
12​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Reinhart​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2015-16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
16:51​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
13​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Hischier​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2017-18​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
16:18​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
14​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
J Hughes​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2019-20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
15:52​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
15​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
J Staal​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2006-07​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
14:56​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
16​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Stamkos​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2008-09​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
14:56​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
17​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Svechnikov​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2018-19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
14:39​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
18​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Yakupov​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2012-13​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
14:34​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Kakko​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2019-20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
14:17​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
20​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Lafreniere​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2020-21​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
13:57​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
21​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Patrick​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2017-18​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
13:44​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
22​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
JVR​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2009-10​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
21​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
12:57​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
23​
[/TD][TD="align: center"]
Seguin​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2010-11​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
12:13​
[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD="align: center"]
Rank​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Player​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Rookie Year​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Age​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
PP Avg TOI​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
1​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Tavares​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2009-10​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
4:08​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
2​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
P Kane​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2007-08​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
3:57​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
3​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
J Hughes​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2019-20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
3:11​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
4​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Eichel​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2015-16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
3:02​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
5​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
RNH​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2011-12​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
3:01​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
6​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
McDavid​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2015-16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:58​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
7​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Reinhart​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2015-16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:56​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
8​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Stamkos​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2008-09​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:50​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
9​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Hall​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2010-11​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:44​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
10​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Laine​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2016-17​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:44​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
11​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Barkov​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2013-14​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:40​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
12​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Yakupov​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2012-13​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:29​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
13​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Matthews​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2016-17​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:27​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
14​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
MacKinnon​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2013-14​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:20​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
15​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Kakko​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2019-20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:14​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Landeskog​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2011-12​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:09​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
17​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Hischier​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2017-18​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:03​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
18​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Svechnikov​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2018-19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1:55​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Patrick​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2017-18​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1:50​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Lafreniere​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2020-21​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1:38​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
21​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
JVR​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2009-10​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
21​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1:25​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
22​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Seguin​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2010-11​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1:22​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
23​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
J Staal​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2006-07​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1:12​
[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
 
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RGY said:
Is 18th supposed to be some sort of “success”? The first 2 months (sorry the first 45 days) of the season the team significantly underperformed with no changes made. It was rinse and repeat.

And all you did was prove my point, that the better PP teams with better PP success/structure have been more consistent all year long. You guys are the ones trying to stake a claim the PP is just fine because of the past month of “success” when the 1st unit, and to a lesser extent the 2nd unit, have the same underlying problems. You want to be blind to that, all the more power to you. Nothings changed in the past month other than the Rangers abusing a pathetic Flyers team.

Lets see how they do against Pittsburgh and the Islanders. They are heavily reliant on making the perfect pass with less shots on net. And they are heavily reliant on Zibanejad’s slapshot. They have so much talent on the 1st unit and really the team. The coaches could you know, intervene, and force these guys to shoot the damn puck. Or put a lefty on the right wall.
Click to expand...

The only thing I was saying regarding 18th is that a few more PP goals... literally 3... drastically changes the way things would look. Instead of the numbers looking awful, they'd look mediocre. That's it.

"Nothing's changed in the last month other than the Rangers abusing a pathetic Flyers team" literally contradicts the point you were making, which was that the good powerplays don't have good numbers because they abuse the bad teams. That's exactly why the good powerplays in the division have good numbers. It's a really, really, really dumb point to criticize the Rangers powerplay for figuring out a way to do what the good powerplays do just because they weren't doing it right away. The point is that they're doing it now and they've been doing it since Febraury 18th. They didn't on Thursday against the Sabres, but it's one game.

Pittsburgh? The Rangers PP is a respectable 21.1% against the Penguins this season. We were awful against the Islanders earlier in the year, but we also haven't played them since the season started to turn around.

Now, all of that being said, there's definitely still room for improvement on the powerplay. I agree that another lefty shot, preferably Buchnevich, should be getting time on PP1. And I completely agree with the Brooks column about PP1 usage. I also think that the lack of shooting we see at times stems more from a lack of pace in the passing than from players actively deciding not to shoot. The faster the pace of the passes, the more open shooting lanes the players are going to have. This is where I think DeAngelo is a better PP fit than Fox. Sometimes Fox is very deliberate, and when you combine that with the same trait in Strome, it leads to everything slowing down. That's another place where having fresh players on the ice would help. Simply telling the players to shoot more without upping the pace is just going to lead to more blocked and missed shot attempts.

I think the difference between those saying "things have been fine" and people who are critical is more of a matter of degree than a true disagreement. I don't think the PP is a major problem that needs to be solved, even if it could stand to improve. You do think it's a major problem. And on the topic for this thread, it's a difference between "Quinn is doing ok, but could be better" and "Quinn sucks."
 
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Reactions: HatTrick Swayze
Tawnos said:
The only thing I was saying regarding 18th is that a few more PP goals... literally 3... drastically changes the way things would look. Instead of the numbers looking awful, they'd look mediocre. That's it.

"Nothing's changed in the last month other than the Rangers abusing a pathetic Flyers team" literally contradicts the point you were making, which was that the good powerplays don't have good numbers because they abuse the bad teams. That's exactly why the good powerplays in the division have good numbers. It's a really, really, really dumb point to criticize the Rangers powerplay for figuring out a way to do what the good powerplays do just because they weren't doing it right away. The point is that they're doing it now and they've been doing it since Febraury 18th. They didn't on Thursday against the Sabres, but it's one game.

Pittsburgh? The Rangers PP is a respectable 21.1% against the Penguins this season. We were awful against the Islanders earlier in the year, but we also haven't played them since the season started to turn around.

Now, all of that being said, there's definitely still room for improvement on the powerplay. I agree that another lefty shot, preferably Buchnevich, should be getting time on PP1. And I completely agree with the Brooks column about PP1 usage. I also think that the lack of shooting we see at times stems more from a lack of pace in the passing than from players actively deciding not to shoot. The faster the pace of the passes, the more open shooting lanes the players are going to have. This is where I think DeAngelo is a better PP fit than Fox. Sometimes Fox is very deliberate, and when you combine that with the same trait in Strome, it leads to everything slowing down. That's another place where having fresh players on the ice would help. Simply telling the players to shoot more without upping the pace is just going to lead to more blocked and missed shot attempts.

I think the difference between those saying "things have been fine" and people who are critical is more of a matter of degree than a true disagreement. I don't think the PP is a major problem that needs to be solved, even if it could stand to improve. You do think it's a major problem.
Click to expand...
This I can meet you more in the middle on.

I agree or can compromise with much of you are saying in the 2nd half of your post.

Maybe to some it isnt a major problem. And maybe it isnt in general. I think my frustrations is the coaching staff refuses or has refused to make even the simplest of changes such as putting another lefty on the right wall to see if it helps the PP be even 2-4% points better overall. I mean that could be the difference in winning and losing hockey games. I really believe it is the difference right now from them being in a playoff spot. I do. Special teams are so important in this league. You get PPs pretty much every game. Just last game they had two chances to put Buffalo away in the 3rd period. They didnt convert. And for me, they just simply do not shoot enough. Its too passive for a unit that hasn’t earned the patience of the fans when they are ranked 25th in the league. And I go back to what I have said before, what the hell do we have coaches for? What is Oliver doing? All too often the PP and his plays drawn up during a timeout with goalie pulled leave you wanting to rip your hair out.
 
HatTrick Swayze said:
I was bored this morning and ran some TOI numbers for top picks over the last 15 years. This is 1 & 2 OA forwards in their rookie years. Some general observations:
  • Kakko and Lafreniere are towards the low end of the spectrum on both total / PP TOI relative to other players picked where they were picked.
  • There are likely many contributing factors to this - their abilities at 19 relative to other top picks, the position depth ahead of them on the NYR relative to other teams on this list, the NYR management/coaching philosophy regarding prospect development, and the league as a whole getting faster and more skilled.
  • The most optimistic rationale for Lafreniere/Kakko ranking low on this list would be to look at Tyler Seguin. He developed fine despite low TOI in his rookie year. The question I would pose is, would have have followed the same trajectory in Boston or did the change of scenery pay off? I would also challenge that the 2010-11 Bruins who won the Stanley Cup probably have more of a leg to stand on in terms of giving Seguin a short leash than the playoff bubble 2020-21 NYR.
My 2 cents: Objectively, they are getting less ice time than top picks usually get. Yes, part of this is undoubtedly the unique situation they find themselves in...being drafted by a team that has a lot of talent on the wings during an odd pandemic season. But they NYR ultimately have to own this. They are either explicitly or implicitly choosing this path...a path that is materially different than most teams choose to take. It sure better work.


[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD="align: center"]
Rank ​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Player​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Rookie Year​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Age​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Total Avg TOI​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
1​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Eichel​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2015-16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19:07​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
2​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
McDavid​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2015-16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
18:53​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
3​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Landeskog​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2011-12​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
18:37​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
4​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
P Kane​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2007-08​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
18:22​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
5​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Hall​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2010-11​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
18:13​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
6​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Tavares​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2009-10​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
18:00​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
7​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Laine​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2016-17​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
17:55​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
8​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
RNH​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2011-12​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
17:37​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
9​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Matthews​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2016-17​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
17:37​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
10​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
MacKinnon​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2013-14​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
17:20​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
11​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Barkov​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2013-14​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
17:06​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
12​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Reinhart​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2015-16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
16:51​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
13​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Hischier​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2017-18​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
16:18​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
14​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
J Hughes​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2019-20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
15:52​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
15​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
J Staal​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2006-07​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
14:56​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Stamkos​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2008-09​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
14:56​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
17​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Svechnikov​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2018-19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
14:39​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
18​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Yakupov​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2012-13​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
14:34​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Kakko​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2019-20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
14:17​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Lafreniere​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2020-21​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
13:57​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
21​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Patrick​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2017-18​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
13:44​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
22​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
JVR​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2009-10​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
21​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
12:57​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
23​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Seguin​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2010-11​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
12:13​
[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD="align: center"]
Rank​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Player​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Rookie Year​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Age​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
PP Avg TOI​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
1​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Tavares​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2009-10​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
4:08​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
2​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
P Kane​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2007-08​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
3:57​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
3​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
J Hughes​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2019-20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
3:11​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
4​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Eichel​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2015-16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
3:02​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
5​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
RNH​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2011-12​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
3:01​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
6​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
McDavid​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2015-16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:58​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
7​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Reinhart​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2015-16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:56​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
8​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Stamkos​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2008-09​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:50​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
9​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Hall​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2010-11​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:44​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
10​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Laine​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2016-17​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:44​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
11​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Barkov​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2013-14​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:40​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
12​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Yakupov​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2012-13​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:29​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
13​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Matthews​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2016-17​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:27​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
14​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
MacKinnon​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2013-14​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:20​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
15​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Kakko​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2019-20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:14​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
16​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Landeskog​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2011-12​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:09​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
17​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Hischier​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2017-18​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2:03​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
18​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Svechnikov​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2018-19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1:55​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Patrick​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2017-18​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1:50​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
20​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Lafreniere​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2020-21​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1:38​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
21​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
JVR​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2009-10​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
21​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1:25​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
22​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
Seguin​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2010-11​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1:22​
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD="align: center"]
23​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
J Staal​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
2006-07​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
19​
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1:12​
[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
Click to expand...

No arguments, with this post, though I would point out that Seguin established himself as a top-6 player, and borderline 1st liner in Boston, rather than in Dallas. He averaged 62 points per 82 games in his 2nd and 3rd years with the Bruins.
 
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Reactions: kovazub94 and HatTrick Swayze
RGY said:
This I can meet you more in the middle on.

I agree or can compromise with much of you are saying in the 2nd half of your post.

Maybe to some it isnt a major problem. And maybe it isnt in general. I think my frustrations is the coaching staff refuses or has refused to make even the simplest of changes such as putting another lefty on the right wall to see if it helps the PP be even 2-4% points better overall. I mean that could be the difference in winning and losing hockey games. I really believe it is the difference right now from them being in a playoff spot. I do. Special teams are so important in this league. You get PPs pretty much every game. Just last game they had two chances to put Buffalo away in the 3rd period. They didnt convert. And for me, they just simply do not shoot enough. Its too passive for a unit that hasn’t earned the patience of the fans when they are ranked 25th in the league. And I go back to what I have said before, what the hell do we have coaches for? What is Oliver doing? All too often the PP and his plays drawn up during a timeout with goalie pulled leave you wanting to rip your hair out.
Click to expand...

I honestly think fixing the usage issue would solve a lot of the problems. Early in the year, the coaches were giving the first unit a lot of time as they tried to work out the struggles... from the totally reasonable standpoint of trusting that they'd figure it out, which in a lot of ways they did. But now, this kind of ice time is just what they do. The urgency isn't quite where it needs to be... in my opinion, as a result of the ice time issue. If they knew they were going to get 30 less seconds of ice time on each PP, wouldn't they press a bit harder to get it done?
 
Tawnos said:
No arguments, with this post, though I would point out that Seguin established himself as a top-6 player, and borderline 1st liner in Boston, rather than in Dallas. He averaged 62 points per 82 games in his 2nd and 3rd years with the Bruins.
Click to expand...

Very interesting to think about Seguin and Hall in the context of the development discussion we have here. Two very closely ranked top prospects in their year where one went to a (perpetually) rebuilding team where he was allowed to “do his thing” and the other went to a contender with a very specific expectations on how he should be playing “the right way” and getting limited minutes in the winning environment. If I recall his trade (which obviously is viewed as a big mistake in hindsight on the part of Boston) was due to Boston dissatisfaction / impatience with the way Seguin was progressing combined with Seguin also being impatient to get a bigger role.
 
Kravtsov on the fourth line and Blackwell on the second as per Mercogliano. Quinn strikes again... Kravtsov got one game basically
 
KirkAlbuquerque said:
Nope. Blackwell top 6, Kids <10 mins and no PP, ride the vets to a sub-.500 record and pray JG doesn't fire you because Youngest team in the league/COVID/Injuries/Hardest division/insert excuse here
Click to expand...
Or maybe see what the actual game brings before the freakout begins?

And weren't people just screaming for Kravstov to be played anywhere including the 4th line?
 
  • Like
Reactions: haveandare
True Blue said:
Or maybe see what the actual game brings before the freakout begins?

And weren't people just screaming for Kravstov to be played anywhere including the 4th line?
Click to expand...
“The fourth line plays too much!”

“Kravstov should play more and also not be on the line that I think plays too much!”
 
86A98996-B569-453A-9BBF-6BF383B7D442.jpeg

Saw this on twitter and its too perfect
 
  • Like
Reactions: KirkAlbuquerque and Rangers in 7
Frustrating, but no surprise. Blackwell may not be what we want to see, but there's no denying how good he has been this year.

I'm most annoyed with PDG in the lineup over Gauthier. I know Rooney with get more TOI than Kravtsov due to the PK, but I'm most interested to see exactly how we jockey the situation so that PDG beats him and/or Lafreniere. We will, of course. But how?
 
When is this dope gonna put a lefty in Strome's spot on the PP? He must be convinced that none of his lefty shots (Buch, KK, Chytil, Laf) can handle that responsibility; or he is just a dope.
 
Harbour Dog said:
Frustrating, but no surprise. Blackwell may not be what we want to see, but there's no denying how good he has been this year.

I'm most annoyed with PDG in the lineup over Gauthier. I know Rooney with get more TOI than Kravtsov due to the PK, but I'm most interested to see exactly how we jockey the situation so that PDG beats him and/or Lafreniere. We will, of course. But how?
Click to expand...
Blackwell has been good converting scoring chances. The rest of his game is AHL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KirkAlbuquerque
Harbour Dog said:
Frustrating, but no surprise. Blackwell may not be what we want to see, but there's no denying how good he has been this year.

I'm most annoyed with PDG in the lineup over Gauthier. I know Rooney with get more TOI than Kravtsov due to the PK, but I'm most interested to see exactly how we jockey the situation so that PDG beats him and/or Lafreniere. We will, of course. But how?
Click to expand...

I would keep Rooney for now and try to trade Blackwell and PDG.
 
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