Player Discussion David Quinn: Part V

[aufheben]

Seems like Quinn wants to get Blackwell ice time, and I am fine with that, yet he should also want to get Chytil ice time. So stick them together.

Gauthier I think is also trying to find his way and needs some ice time yet him with Rooney apparently would also get him some of that., Rooney usually plays a little less 5on5 than Chytil, last night withstanding.

Put Lafreniere with either line on LW and he by default would get some ice time too. Leaves Howden, Kravtsov, Giuseppe to fill the last roster spot, and we all know it will be Howden.

Blackwell, Di Giuseppe, Rooney...those guys are literally playing for their lives every night.

 

[kovazub94]

The Rangers have the number 12 ranked PP over the last month at 21.1%. Over the last two weeks we have the number 2 ranked PP at 28.1%. I'm a bit confused about why we are constantly complaining about the PP usage.

Because Strome is there and Kakko & Lafreniere are not. On PlayStation with these two on PP1 the Rangers PP is at 72% and so Quinn is an idiot.

 

[duhmetreE]

Who led forwards in ES toi? Of course linemates are close to each other, the point is he got as much toi as possible without being on PP1, which I do agree he should be on.

All of PP2 has limited time because the first unit is insanely effective at holding the zone. I’m not sure what the coach can do or should do to purposely make them less effective at that, but Kakko should be on PP1. Having said that, Strome is putting up crazy production and not having a specific guy on the first unit isn’t some unusual coaching sin, it’s the kind of stuff everyone has with every coach ever.

Laf was invisible. Kakko has been good, he gets minutes. Miller has been good, he gets minutes. Maybe Laf should move his feet and play at least as well as the journeymen grinders. I suspect if he did that, he’d also see more minutes.

He doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt but he doesn’t deserve to have every minuscule decision and routine difference of opinion between fan and coach looked at through the lens of him being totally incompetent and then blown up to a catastrophic problem, either.

Mika did. It seemed like he played the last 3 minutes of regulation

I’ve been pretty consistent. The kids belong on the PP. they are creative and highly skilled. It’d be playing to their strengths and in turn helping the team. It’s exacerbated when our PP has been bottom tier all season.

1 shift in a period against Buffalo is unacceptable. When Quinn says there’s “not enough ice time to go around” it further agitates the situation.

he’s not in control and makes a lot of obvious missteps. I defended him last season, as his purpose was “development”. It has now turned into “win now” and it exposes his glaring short comings and takes away any slack he had . He’s not a good NHL coach. His offense this season is embarrassingly bad for the talent we have. Still no adjustments. Still saying the same things in post game. Nothing changes.

His time has expired. Unfortunately, I don’t think he’s fired until the offseason

 

[SA16]

Because Strome is there and Kakko & Lafreniere are not.

Ah yes, yes...because the right move is to take off the forward who leads the team in 5v4 points and is T-12 in the league. That should do it. I never even liked Strome, or thought it made sense to have him on PP1, but it has worked.

 

[kovazub94]

Ah yes, yes...because the right move is to take off the forward who leads the team in 5v4 points and is T-12 in the league. That should do it. I never even liked Strome, or thought it made sense to have him on PP1, but it has worked.

Same and it made me a convert.

 

[SA16]

Same and it made me a convert.

The logic against it, which was always my concern, is it makes them one dimensional because the play basically has to right right to left to get the shot. However they have had amazing success with the Fox -> Strome -> Mika play in front of the net which would not be a viable play if there was a lefty over there.

 

[kovazub94]

The logic against it, which was always my concern, is it makes them one dimensional because the play basically has to right right to left to get the shot. However they have had amazing success with the Fox -> Strome -> Mika play in front of the net which would not be a viable play if there was a lefty over there.

My thoughts - Strome is EXTREMELY accurate passer whose hands are ALSO good enough to convert on backdoor chances when necessary. He does threaten on occasion when he goes to blue line and then comes into vacated space around right circle. His main attribute is that he can read and doesn’t spoil plays from Panarin, Zibanejad and Fox. Buchnevich is second in this aspect, Kakko third.

 

[True Blue]

Even ice time last game

Chytil 9:52
Rooney 10:31

As was pointed out, Chytil and his line struggled in their own end. Noticeably. As such, is it really that much of a surprise?

 

[True Blue]

Who did they play again over the last month? How about last 2 weeks? Can you remind us who those teams were....

Who care who the teams were? Are we grading wins on a curve now?

 

[haveandare]

Why vacuum? IMO it doesn’t matter if it takes 30 sec or 1.5 min to score a goal so I will take 2-3 solid chances per PP as a unit of measurement. Especially in the Rangers particular case, our PP2 doesn’t deserve arguments for more ice time.

Like, if you say a player scored 30 goals, that’s good in a vacuum. If that player is Ovechkin, that’s not great. If your pp gets 2-3 chances, that’s good in a vacuum. If that PP is Panarin, Fox, Mika, and Kreider and it has 1:45 of non stop possession, that’s not great.

 

[NYR]

The PP:
Ultimately I'd like to keep lines intact but this team just doesn't have the depth.
Zbad and Bread should be separated as they both shoot from the same position.
Kreids in front of the net on PP1 and Kakko in front of the net on PP2.
#RocketScience

 

[RGY]

Who care who the teams were? Are we grading wins on a curve now?

I guess it doesnt matter that a large majority of their PP success has come against the worst defensive teams in the East. Or does that not matter because it doesnt fit your Quinn defense? We should just consider the PP resolved because they beat on bad teams that cant defend.

What a lazy response.

 

[RGY]

Pitsburgh Boston washington philly new jersey and Buffalo....the same teams we play allllllllllll year.

Yea lets not look who their actual PP success was against. Just group it all together and yell FIXED!

 

[smoneil]

The Rangers have the number 12 ranked PP over the last month at 21.1%. Over the last two weeks we have the number 2 ranked PP at 28.1%. I'm a bit confused about why we are constantly complaining about the PP usage.

Because context matters. In that span, the Rangers have 10 powerplay goals. One was against Washington. Two were against Buffalo. SEVEN were against Philadelphia in the Slaughterhouse 5 series.

And even with padding the PP stats against Philly and Buffalo, this team's powerplay is still 25th league wide, nearly a full percentage point behind Arizona. I think we can all agree that going off for 8 or 9 goals every night isn't exactly the new normal for this team, but rather an aberration. As such, that "in the last two weeks" business doesn't mean much, though it does show exactly how miserable the PP is on a normal night, because 7 free PP goals still isn't enough to boost their percentage out of the lowest tier of the league.

 

[NYR]

.

 

[RGY]

Rangers PP over the last month:

2/9 vs BUF = 22%

2/6 vs NJ = 33%

2/12 vs WAS = 17%

1/4 vs PIT = 25%

0/9 vs BOS = 0%

5/16 vs PHI = 31%


12/56 Overall @ 21% success rate. Take out the Philly domination and its at 17%. This is not some amazing PP that has figured things out. It struggles against better teams. Heck it struggled last night. The 1st unit refuses to shoot the puck. They still have too many righties on it. And that is a coaching issue. The Coaches are there for a reason. And if you cannot get your players, stars or not, to buy into a game plan as simple as shooting the puck then you shouldnt be the f***ing coach. And if you are not providing any change in approach or gameplan then you really shouldnt be the coach.

Take out PHI/BUF/NJ and they are 3/25 or 12% against playoff teams.

Stop being so ignorant.

 

[SA16]

Because context matters. In that span, the Rangers have 10 powerplay goals. One was against Washington. Two were against Buffalo. SEVEN were against Philadelphia in the Slaughterhouse 5 series.

And even with padding the PP stats against Philly and Buffalo, this team's powerplay is still 25th league wide, nearly a full percentage point behind Arizona. I think we can all agree that going off for 8 or 9 goals every night isn't exactly the new normal for this team, but rather an aberration. As such, that "in the last two weeks" business doesn't mean much, though it does show exactly how miserable the PP is on a normal night, because 7 free PP goals still isn't enough to boost their percentage out of the lowest tier of the league.

Those numbers aren't right. Since March 17th (9-0 Flyers win) they have 9 powerplay goals.

Flyers: 5
Caps: 2
Sabres: 2

Those are also the only 3 teams they have played in that time period.

5 powerplay goals in 3 games against the Flyers is not some outrageous amount that's never been done before.

 

[smoneil]

Those numbers aren't right. Since March 17th (9-0 Flyers win) they have 9 powerplay goals.

Flyers: 5
Caps: 2
Sabres: 2

Those are also the only 3 teams they have played in that time period.

5 powerplay goals in 3 games against the Flyers is not some outrageous amount that's never been done before.

Tolled it up by taking a quick look at the game reports. I probably counted a shorty as a power play goal. The point in the rest of the post still stands. Almost the entirety of this PP Renaissance came against Buffalo and an imploding Flyers team.

Case in point--here's our PP% by team in our little division:

Buff: 13.3% (2 goals in 15 opportunities)
Bos: 4.2% (1 goal in 24 opportunities)
Caps: 15% (3 goals in 20 opportunities)
Isles: 7.1% (1 goal in 14 opportunities)
Pens: 21.1% (4 goals in 19 opportunities)
Phila: 30.8% (8 goals in 26 opportunities)

Turns out even Buffalo stymies our PP. The only teams where our percentage is higher than our 25th overall average are the Pens and the Flyers. I know that 3 of those 4 PP goals against the Pens came in the first 9 games of the season (Fox, Kreider, and Panarin). Strome had the 4th on 3/9.

So basement to "Top 2" is actually wholly related to that whacky Flyers series.

 

[aufheben]

Those numbers aren't right. Since March 17th (9-0 Flyers win) they have 9 powerplay goals.

Flyers: 5
Caps: 2
Sabres: 2

Those are also the only 3 teams they have played in that time period.

5 powerplay goals in 3 games against the Flyers is not some outrageous amount that's never been done before.

God, people are still arguing about this?

Here’s context: Zibanejad’s shooting percentage on the Power Play last year was 25.00%.

It’s like people want the team to have issues or something.

 

[SA16]

Tolled it up by taking a quick look at the game reports. I probably counted a shorty as a power play goal. The point in the rest of the post still stands. Almost the entirety of this PP Renaissance came against Buffalo and an imploding Flyers team.

Case in point--here's our PP% by team in our little division:

Buff: 13.3% (2 goals in 15 opportunities)
Bos: 4.2% (1 goal in 24 opportunities)
Caps: 15% (3 goals in 20 opportunities)
Isles: 7.1% (1 goal in 14 opportunities)
Pens: 21.1% (4 goals in 19 opportunities)
Phila: 30.8% (8 goals in 26 opportunities)

Turns out even Buffalo stymies our PP. The only teams where our percentage is higher than our 25th overall average are the Pens and the Flyers. I know that 3 of those 4 PP goals against the Pens came in the first 9 games of the season (Fox, Kreider, and Panarin). Strome had the 4th on 3/9.

So basement to "Top 2" is actually wholly related to that whacky Flyers series.

You can't just...not count them. They earned those PP goals. And if you're doing that you should do that for all the other teams. It's probably similar. It's not going to just be 20% against everyone.

 

[n8]

I wish they'd let LAF play left point on PP2 like he did in juniors. Really want him getting time on that unit. We have to invest in more playing time for the kid.
Trouba has zero ppp so far so not sure he's doing a whole lot for us there.

 

[smoneil]

You can't just...not count them. They earned those PP goals. And if you're doing that you should do that for all the other teams. It's probably similar. It's not going to just be 20% against everyone.

I'm not saying "don't count them." You're the one who keeps saying we should "not count" the lack of production through the whole season until the Philly bloodbath. Beating a team senseless isn't common. The aberration seems to be pretty clear here. The Rangers PP isn't "fixed." It isn't "good." It was lucky to run into Philly at the right time. And even with those gaudy Philadelphia numbers, the team's PP is 25th in the league. You look at that info and seem to think "hey, we should ONLY count the aberration and pretend that we have the #2 pp in the league." I look at this information and think, "our overall numbers clearly show that we have an unsuccessful powerplay, and if you take into account the bump they got from thrashing Philly, the PP is actually probably even closer to the bottom of the league."

Which of our positions seems logical to you?

 

[SA16]

I'm not saying "don't count them." You're the one who keeps saying we should "not count" the lack of production through the whole season until the Philly bloodbath. Beating a team senseless isn't common. The aberration seems to be pretty clear here. The Rangers PP isn't "fixed." It isn't "good." It was lucky to run into Philly at the right time. And even with those gaudy Philadelphia numbers, the team's PP is 25th in the league. You look at that info and seem to think "hey, we should ONLY count the aberration and pretend that we have the #2 pp in the league." I look at this information and think, "our overall numbers clearly show that we have an unsuccessful powerplay, and if you take into account the bump they got from thrashing Philly, the PP is actually probably even closer to the bottom of the league."

Which of our positions seems logical to you?

I never said we shouldn't count the whole season. I said it's strange that people are continuing to complain about the PP when it has very good results for the last months/two weeks. Doesn't mean it will or won't continue.

 

[aufheben]

Spoiler: 2019-20 - xGoals,Shot Attempts 5v4

Spoiler: 2020-21 - xGoals,Shot Attempts 5v4

Spoiler: 2019-20 - Shots Taken PP

Spoiler: 2020-21 - Shots Taken PP

 

[RGY]

God, people are still arguing about this?

Here’s context: Zibanejad’s shooting percentage on the Power Play last year was 25.00%.

It’s like people want the team to have issues or something.

What do you mean still arguing about this? The PP has been a horror show all season up until this past month. But when you look at who they played, you simply cannot just say the PP is no longer a problem and neither is Oliver or Quinn. It is so disingenuous to point to their stats over the last month and ignore all the facts that led to those stats, to puff your chest out and say see FIXED.

Yeah Zib has finally been getting some breaks and has more jump in his game, but I mean cmon, on one of his PPG against the Flyers it was a cluster f*** in front of the net. The goalie (forget if it was Hart or Elliot, I think Hart) was completely being turned around, lost his stick and had no idea where the play was. Thats what happens when you play a shit show of a hockey team. Thats the freaking point. Nothing is actually fixed. They still have too many righties on the 1st unit. They have no opportunity to tee up a one timer on the right wing boards with the lefty shot because thats where Strome is. It doesn’t keep the PKers honest, they can favor one side knowing where the shot is coming from 95% of the time. And against better teams, there numbers drop a lot.

So I guess sure, if its not important to have the PP actually improve to be able to be a difference maker against better teams then by all means bask in this. Settle for just ok.