Player Discussion David Quinn: Part V

[True Blue]

WHo said anything about replacing him with the 19 year old?

he could have slid Chytil into that spot, Double shifted Panarin/Kakko or any of the 4th liners.

You can't preach "we're trying to win games" while only benching only the young players. Vets who aren't performing should be benched too if winning is your objective.

Double shifted Kakko by playing him on his offside? Had Chytil ever played LW?

Was Kreider great? No. Do coaches let some players have longer leashes than others? Yes. Quinn is not unique to this.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Double shifted Kakko by playing him on his offside? Had Chytil ever played LW?

Was Kreider great? No. Do coaches let some players have longer leashes than others? Yes. Quinn is not unique to this.

Again if he’s going to say he’s trying to win games, it shouldn’t matter if a guy is a vet or not.

Kreider was horrendous last night. Playing him hurt the team. If winning is priority A-Z he shouldn’t have played. I don’t think a player playing on his “off side” bothers them as much as you think it does. People move around the ice all the time. What I do know is that kreider, in his usual position was flat out terrible yet not only was he not demoted, he was rewarded with 3v3 time.

I have a problem with him talking out of both sides of his mouth. And no not every coach will do this. Good coaches will not.

 

[True Blue]

Again if he’s going to say he’s trying to win games, it shouldn’t matter if a guy is a vet or not.

Kreider was horrendous last night. Playing him hurt the team. If winning is priority A-Z he shouldn’t have played. I don’t think a player playing on his “off side” bothers them as much as you think it does. People move around the ice all the time. What I do know is that kreider, in his usual position was flat out terrible yet not only was he not demoted, he was rewarded with 3v3 time.

I have a problem with him talking out of both sides of his mouth. And no not every coach will do this. Good coaches will not.

Quinn is trying to win games and he is trying to win games with the players that he believes will do that, not by conducting late game experiments by shifting people out of position.

And if you do not believe that virtually all coaches give longer leashes to established vets than younger players, then I am not sure of what to tell you. And let's face it, you are going to have a problem with anything he does including which leg hits the ground first when he gets out of bed.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The most bewildering thing to me is that we have a bunch of people on the internet who are 100% certain they know how to develop a prospect better than the entire brain trust of an NHL organization, while at the same time willfully ignoring the progress made by other prospects in that same organization.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

The most bewildering thing to me is that we have a bunch of people on the internet who are 100% certain they know how to develop a prospect better than the entire brain trust of an NHL organization, while at the same time willfully ignoring the progress made by other prospects in that same organization.

Or that the same braintrust has some underlying agenda of not seeing the prospects ever develop.

 

[CLW]

The most bewildering thing to me is that we have a bunch of people on the internet who are 100% certain they know how to develop a prospect better than the entire brain trust of an NHL organization, while at the same time willfully ignoring the progress made by other prospects in that same organization.

Eh, I haven't seen claim they know best or "willfully" ignoring anything. Appeal to authority, weak troll attempt.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Or that the same braintrust has some underlying agenda of not seeing the prospects ever develop.

It's crazy, what do they have to gain from ruining Laff or Chytil or whoever? What motive could they have, they want to get fired? Same guys were behind Kakko's transformation. And Miller and Fox and Buch.

Eh, I haven't seen claim they know best or "willfully" ignoring anything. Appeal to authority, weak troll attempt.

Oh no? Do you go into the gameday threads? Who is appealing to authority? Deferring to the professionals who actually are around these kids everyday and know them on a personal level is a troll attempt?I get you think you know better but hint, you don't. You don't know shit when it comes to running, coaching, developing, NHL teams and players. The quicker you realize it, the happier you'll be as a fan.

 

[CLW]

It's crazy, what do they have to gain from ruining Laff or Chytil or whoever? What motive could they have, they want to get fired? Same guys were behind Kakko's transformation. And Miller and Fox and Buch.



Oh no? Do you go into the gameday threads? Who is appealing to authority? Deferring to the professionals who actually are around these kids everyday and know them on a personal level is a troll attempt?I get you think you know better but hint, you don't. You don't know shit when it comes to running, coaching, developing, NHL teams and players. The quicker you realize it, the happier you'll be as a fan.

Lol, I'm sure surrendering your own judgment and brown-nosing people in charge works well for you

 

[True Blue]

Or that the same braintrust has some underlying agenda of not seeing the prospects ever develop.

My favorite is that Quinn runs the franchise with an iron first and neither Gorton nor JD are involved with what happens to the prospects.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

The most bewildering thing to me is that we have a bunch of people on the internet who are 100% certain they know how to develop a prospect better than the entire brain trust of an NHL organization, while at the same time willfully ignoring the progress made by other prospects in that same organization.

It just seems very short sighted to play Blackwell in OT there over Kaapo. We probably aren't going to win the cup this year and have pretty unfavorable odds to make the playoffs as it is. I understand they want to make the playoffs this year and that is probably a big part of DQ's performance review/end of year meetings with management.
But at the same time, the pathways to NYR winning a cup within the next 10 or so years all include Laf and Kaapo reaching their ceiling or close to it. These guys need to actually PLAY to get better. This push for the playoffs that puts Blackwell on in OT over Laf/Chytil/Kaapo and playing the 4th line more than the 3rd line etc actually hurts the team in the long run more than anything else.

 

[True Blue]

Lol, I'm sure surrendering your own judgment and brown-nosing people in charge works well for you

Ohhhhhh, Nellie....Whoaaaaaa.

The hits just keep on coming.

Ok. I am game. Who on the Rangers is brown-nosing the people in charge and how? I cannot wait for you to share your insight on this.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

My favorite is that Quinn runs the franchise with an iron first and neither Gorton nor JD are involved with what happens to the prospects.

Vladavid Puquinn.

 

[True Blue]

It just seems very short sighted to play Blackwell in OT there over Kaapo. We probably aren't going to win the cup this year and have pretty unfavorable odds to make the playoffs as it is. I understand they want to make the playoffs this year and that is probably a big part of DQ's performance review/end of year meetings with management.
But at the same time, the pathways to NYR winning a cup within the next 10 or so years all include Laf and Kaapo reaching their ceiling or close to it. These guys need to actually PLAY to get better. This push for the playoffs that puts Blackwell on in OT over Laf/Chytil/Kaapo and playing the 4th line more than the 3rd line etc actually hurts the team in the long run more than anything else.

Maybe players like Lafreniere simply need to let their play speak for themselves??

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

It just seems very short sighted to play Blackwell in OT there over Kaapo. We probably aren't going to win the cup this year and have pretty unfavorable odds to make the playoffs as it is. I understand they want to make the playoffs this year and that is probably a big part of DQ's performance review/end of year meetings with management.
But at the same time, the pathways to NYR winning a cup within the next 10 or so years all include Laf and Kaapo reaching their ceiling or close to it. These guys need to actually PLAY to get better. This push for the playoffs that puts Blackwell on in OT over Laf/Chytil/Kaapo and playing the 4th line more than the 3rd line etc actually hurts the team in the long run more than anything else.

I agree that Kakko should have gotten shift(s) in the OT, that's a reasonable complaint. But Laff? He barely deserved the ice time he got, let alone in OT. Chytil, I don't know, my guess is they didn't think he was doing enough on defense to get ice late in the game. People keep saying Laf should have played in OT, but say he's on the ice for a goal against? I think that's worse for him than not getting a shift. Make a mistake, let the team down and cost them the game? No thanks. I don't fault Quinn or any coach for playing the hot hand (Blackwell played good last night) and trying to win a game you dominated for two periods. Development isn't just about the shifts you get, if that's all it took to help a kid get to the next level, they'd be double shifting Laff every game. Not playing in the third isn't going to keep him from reaching his ceiling.

Regardless of what their odds are to make the playoffs or win The Cup, these games are good for young players. Let them learn what it's like to make a push and what's required of them to contribute. Again, I'd rather Laff get 10 minutes a night in high-pressure games than 20 in pond hockey exhibitions when the team knows the season is already over.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Maybe players like Lafreniere simply need to let their play speak for themselves??

Has the play of Chytil and Kaapo earned OT ice time there? How do you suppose Kravtsov earns a lineup spot?...

 

[Kravtsov420]

Yeah, pretty much a load of bull crap. Just look at how afraid Kakko is to make a play. And Buchnevich is utterly terrified.

We’re still going to use Buch ? Hilarious.

 

[haveandare]

Has the play of Chytil and Kaapo earned OT ice time there? How do you suppose Kravtsov earns a lineup spot?...

Why is leas than a minute of 3on3 time such a sticking point?

I can venture a guess that it’s just because that’s all people can point to in regards to Kakko after a game where he led all forwards in even strength TOI, but is there something else to that?

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Why is leas than a minute of 3on3 time such a sticking point?

I can venture a guess that it’s just because that’s all people can point to in regards to Kakko after a game where he led all forwards in even strength TOI, but is there something else to that?

As others have pointed out in the post game thread, this is not about one overtime, but a series of bench management trends such as PP1 personal and usage, Mika playing in the top 5 TOI of all forwards in the league, Gauthier vs PDG usage, etc...

 

[Off Sides]

I think my bigger grip would be Chytil, less even strength ice time than Blackwell, Rooney, and no PP time, well 10 seconds.

If they do not trust Chytil's line-mates, thus play Blackwell more, they should probably change up that line and put Blackwell on Chytil's wing so he gets more of a chance.

 

[duhmetreE]

Why is leas than a minute of 3on3 time such a sticking point?

I can venture a guess that it’s just because that’s all people can point to in regards to Kakko after a game where he led all forwards in even strength TOI, but is there something else to that?

1) he didn't lead forwards at ES TOI; He had roughly the same amount as Panarin and Strome, his linemates. Our bar is so low that we have to celebrate when Quinn does make the obvious decision. This isn't some impressive thing.. Our best forward played.... until he didn't...
2) He got benched late game when he's been the best defensive forward all year
3) was not given an opportunity 3v3
4) extremely limited PP time

Lafreniere allegedly had 1 shift in the 3rd. No PP time. No 3v3 time.

Quinn has been so bad over the past year, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. Our PP is bottom tier btw...

 

[kovazub94]

If it’s all about winning he would have benched Kreider in the 3rd.

Instead of benching Lafreniere or in addition? Could you please play-out lines if Quinn did as you recommended? I’m honestly interested in the lines that would be missing two top-9 LWs.

That’s besides the fact that by definition vets have longer leash than a teenage rookie and even as bad as Kreider was last night, he was still better than Lafreniere.

 

[kovazub94]

I don't really want to see Quinn back next year, but if absolutely nothing else, we need someone to run the PP way, way better than this. It's infuriating how ineffective it is with so much talent.

I know you mean more in general but last night? The Rangers (more like PP1) were generating at least 2-3 dangerous shots in each of four PP opportunities they had. That’s 10 high danger chances on which they converted zero. You know they should’ve had at least one goal there if simply going by the league’s or the team’s average.

 

[kovazub94]

The lack of changes to the PP is truly mystifying. I don’t really know what else to say.

Lack of chances? Can someone post some analytics. I am probably going crazy cause I thought last night PP was very dangerous just unable to convert.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I mean, Kreider has been kinda butt lately and it probably should warrant a lineup change. I’ve said this when Krav came over, but I really like the balance of this top-9

Laf-Mika-Buch
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
Kreider-Chytil-Krav
Blackwell-Rooney-Gauthier

 

[kovazub94]

From what I see, when on the PP Fox is afflicted with everyone else who is playing pass the puck around the perimeter. DeAngelo, while certainly would pass, did not allow for opportunities to be missed by not shooting it. That is largely what is missing. The PP seems to be the same. What is missing is anyone that jumps at the chance to shoot when an opportunity presents itself like DeAngelo did. They would rather pass and wait for a much prettier play.

Only Zibanejad and Kreider could be viewed as shot first players, and still even Zibanejad is guilty of overpassing.