Player Discussion David Quinn: Part IV

[True Blue]

Any coach can ride a superstar player or two and hot goaltending. The problem is that outside of that Quinn really is not showing anything inspiring or noteworthy. He's just lost.

This has nothing to do with riding anything. I can very easily turn this around and say that any coach that is not named Quinn would have the team with the exact same record, given the circumstances.

Last night, you would have had Scotty Bowman, Toe Blake and the Almighty behind the bench and you know what happens? The Rangers loose 4-0.

Quinn is not fixing problems, he is not teaching the kids NHL hockey or helping them become better etc. It's one thing to have ready made players and tell them "go out there and show me what you can do", something else entirely to actually coach them and help them reach their potential. The reason the Rangers brought in Martin are self evident, and thank heavens they did, but that has not solved the root problem.

I am sure he is not teaching kids. Kakko's awareness this year just came naturally to him. The way Chytil was playing just came naturally to him. Buchnevich becoming a top line player just came naturally. We can go on here.....

The real problem is that most on here look at the scoresheet and decide that THAT is the way that they are going to determine if the kids are being taught or developed. Of course feel free to think that way, but to me that is a very shortsighted way of looking at it.

Not really sure why you are sticking Martin in here. All he does run Quinn's system with his own tweaks on it. Players like Fox and Lindren were taking their major steps forward before him. Of course he has helped this year, but he is still not the coach.

Even with missing Chytil for as long as they did, even with the play in goal allowing for beach balls to get in 40% of the games, even with Panarin missing over 40% of the season, if Mika was only 80% of the player he was back in 2018, this very, very flawed team would be knocking on the doors of the playoffs.

There are legit things to be laid at Quinn's feet, but the development of the youngsters is not one of them. And if you want to talk about sheer wins and losses, tell me what coach overcomes the issues that I outlined.

 

[Edge]

@Edge

when
Is
Quinn
Gone!!?

Well, the question as posed to me three weeks ago was whether there's a move potentially on the horizon. The answer then was no. I think the Rangers wanted to get their guys back, see how the team responded, etc.

Today, I would say that the Rangers strong preference is still not to make an in-season move. However, that desire is not an infinite get out of jail free card for Quinn. With Panarin coming back, they will be watching to see how the team responds. And it is entirely possible that the next week or so could determine Quinn's fate.

In that scenario, I would be very surprised if Martin isn't named the interim coach. I don't think they'd go outside the organization, not at this time at least.

 

[LOFIN]

Well, the question as oppossed to me three weeks ago was whether there's a move potentially on the horizon. The answer then was no. I think the Rangers wanted to get their guys back, see how the team responds, etc.

Today, I would say that the Rangers strong preference is still not to make an in-season move. However, that desire is not an infinite get out of jail free card for Quinn. With Panarin coming back, they will be watching to see how the team responds. And, it is entirely possible that the next week or so could determine Quinn's fate.

In that scenario, I would be very surprised if Martin isn't named the interim coach. I don't think they'd go outside the organization, not at this time at least.

Makes sense, a move within the organization for the rest of the season. Then make a good hire off season.

I don't think it's wrong to say the Rangers are a lucrative team for a coach. Team has a good mix of young talent, and is a potential contender in the future. Of course, the things that come with being a coach for the Rangers as well, but purely from roster and future pipeline perspective we ought to be lucrative.

 

[tailgunner]

for all you tony haters check out this video, esp the .31 mark

 

[Whoot Whoot]

Kakko isn't living up to expectations
Laf isn't living up to expectations

#1 and #2 picks
both not working? the math says no - its the coach

 

[JHS]

Quinn has got to go- no doubt about that-- but I think an in season move would be a mistake. The Rangers can can him and let Martin finish the season out( seems obvious enough) but I hope they don't make the same mistake again and hire a full time replacement before they know who could be available after the season. That's the same mistake they made when hiring Quinn( could not wait a few weeks to see who would be available after the season ended resulted in the team missing out on the chance to hire Trotz.) I'd be happy to see Quinn out but the only logical next step is to wait to find the replacement until the off season to hire the next coach.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

He gave Mika covid and hid all his sticks, hid Sheaterkins water bottle and dehydrayed him into a groin pull, got Nazarov to make a story about Panarin and was instrumental in Chytil and Miller getting hurt and made sure Kakko got covid, so ya this season is because of tony.

Don't forget how he stole Miller's first goal puck

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Kakko isn't living up to expectations
Laf isn't living up to expectations

#1 and #2 picks
both not working? the math says no - its the coach

4 top-10 picks in a row having trouble adjusting and/or struggling with what this coaching staff is asking them to do.

One is an incident
Two is a coincidence
Three? Hard to blame it solely on the players
Four? Yeah, good luck excusing that

If we had drafted Mittelstadt, Wahlstrom, Zegras and Stützle would this team be any better off? Are we sure the problems wouldn't arise then? I honestly feel a lot of fans are giving the organization a pass no matter what happens. It's just too much for me to say this is all on multiple individuals and not on the common denominator

 

[haveandare]

I definitely think it’s time to look at other options. I would hope and assume Gorton and Co have already had these conversations. Frankly I think a lot of the stuff people blame Quinn for on here is pretty baseless, but the big picture is the team isn’t improving and something big has to change because they should be at least taking small steps forward or not being notably worse. The coach is the easiest move to make and Quinn hasn’t been great even if the laundry list of things that people blame him for is largely silly.

I don’t see these guys hiring someone for a few months only to then reevaluate this summer. I’m not sure I see them even letting Martin take over for a bit unless things get really dire. My guess would be they’re hoping Sullivan becomes available in the off-season. Not sure what the plan B would be but I’d think there’d be reticence about another untested coach at this level

 

[Off Sides]

The coach is the easiest thing for them to change.

Yet if they do so any established coach is not likely to want to see them trade out any more vets for youth, likely quite the opposite so I am trying to be careful in what I wish for.

 

[Machinehead]

"We would lose anyway!"

This isn't about wins and losses. Thought we established this.

 

[smoneil]

for all you tony haters check out this video, esp the .31 mark

Wow, OLD Phillies and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Red Barons reference in there with "Greg 'the Leg' McKegg." I didn't think ADA was even old enough to remember Greg Legg.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Quinn has got to go- no doubt about that-- but I think an in season move would be a mistake. The Rangers can can him and let Martin finish the season out( seems obvious enough) but I hope they don't make the same mistake again and hire a full time replacement before they know who could be available after the season. That's the same mistake they made when hiring Quinn( could not wait a few weeks to see who would be available after the season ended resulted in the team missing out on the chance to hire Trotz.) I'd be happy to see Quinn out but the only logical next step is to wait to find the replacement until the off season to hire the next coach.

Dumping Quinn ASAP could be nothing but beneficial. Every day he’s here is a detriment to the future of this club.

 

[RGY]

I just hope and pray every day that Gorton/JD have been compiling a list and having conversations with potential candidates in the background similar to what Calgary did with the process for hiring Sutter

 

[aufheben]

"We would lose anyway!"

This isn't about wins and losses. Thought we established this.

I believe that you feel that way, but I don’t believe everyone else is unconcerned with winning.

 

[aufheben]

The coach is the easiest thing for them to change.

Post of the year.

 

[NYR]

Post of the year.

Refute it..

 

[aufheben]

4 top-10 picks in a row having trouble adjusting and/or struggling with what this coaching staff is asking them to do.

One is an incident
Two is a coincidence
Three? Hard to blame it solely on the players
Four? Yeah, good luck excusing that

If we had drafted Mittelstadt, Wahlstrom, Zegras and Stützle would this team be any better off? Are we sure the problems wouldn't arise then? I honestly feel a lot of fans are giving the organization a pass no matter what happens. It's just too much for me to say this is all on multiple individuals and not on the common denominator

Multiple players like Fox and Chytil?

Like...the amount of NHL draftees that make an immediate impact in the NHL is incredibly small. If the Rangers drafted #1OA for ten-straight years and “this” still happened, then yeah, I’d say it’s possible that there’s a correlation. But even then...the sample size is still only ten players lol.

2 is a coincidence but 4 is evidence? I think it’s more like 400 is evidence. Most prospects don’t even play in the NHL.

 

[aufheben]

Refute it..

Refute what? I completely agree.

 

[NYR]

Refute what? I completely agree.

Oh OK..I didn't get that impression and thought you were being sarcastic

 

[aufheben]

Also are we really counting Lias Andersson as a “top-10” pick? They compared the kid to f***ing Oscar Lindberg on live television, way before the Rangers did anything with him.

Kravtsov clearly was brought over too early, which you can definitely fault the organization for (although the book is far from closed on him to begin with.)

Kakko was f***ing terrible last year, and while it blows that he’s not producing, he is playing astronomically better now. Just one off-season later.

 

[aufheben]

Oh OK..I didn't get that impression and thought you were being sarcastic

No, it absolutely is the easiest thing to change coaches.

And that’s exactly why people pin everything on them.

 

[Machinehead]

I believe that you feel that way, but I don’t believe everyone else is unconcerned with winning.

That's fair.

 

[NYR]

No, it absolutely is the easiest thing to change coaches.

And that’s exactly why people pin everything on them.

I think it goes well beyond that with this specific coach.

How about I pose it like this..

Do you see any logical reason to keep him this long other than having a warm body in the position?

 

[aufheben]

That's fair.

Although, I consider my version ambivalence-towards-wins/losses-but-always-towards-their-play more optimized as it allows me to enjoy watching hockey just because it’s hockey.