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Player Discussion David Quinn: Part III

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Here is what I found on a preliminary investigation on faceoff % for a player over time. I chose some random players, probably chose too much high end talent for this very small sample size. I took out post-season entirely, but I left some years in such as rookie year where some players did not take many faceoffs at all.
CNhsUm1.png

I will make it into a python script over the weekend and chart the whole league
 
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duhmetreE said:
Do they have that coaching help in that area?

If I'm training BJJ, I have my instructor and practice against him or against someone else while he watches and coaches us both.

Once again, back to coaching, instructing etc.
Click to expand...
You tryna roll?
 
Coaches should be replaced every couple years. I'm not sure why that would be a controversial statement given that is what pretty much happens everywhere in the NHL. Does it matter if the next coach too is a transition coach? 6 games into this season may be a little premature, yet what is the threshold of games where it become appropriate?

I guess the things that bother me about how Quinn has handled this season so far, he had ideas out of camp, lines, pairs, special teams, was he all wrong there and now is correct or was he correct then and now is all wrong? Cause none of his original stuff or his modified stuff has seemed to make a whole lot of difference.
 
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B17 Apricots said:
But to me those are things that are instilled into players by good coaching. One thing Sullivan, Tortorella, Trotz, etc. all have in common is they preach good structure and like you mentioned, support from the fowards... playing as an entire unit. Its no surprise the Rangers churned out lots of good 2way players under Tortorella. When people talk about developing players and prospects those are the types of things in play. You can coach players into having a complete game
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To some extent I agree, but its not in the cards for Gauthier or Chytil for example. Gauthier is a high forechecker, he has no advantages if he assumes a 3rd man back role. Chytil must get on the board some at least. I mean there are 9 players in our top 9. Some players has to take a back-seat to others offensively and on the forecheck, its as simple as that. Its not going to be Laf or Kakko. Kreider is a forechecker. Strome isn't good at it. Howden is just running around. That leaves Ziba, Panarin and Buch and we are at 9.

So my point is more or less, sure, from this perspective we were dealt an awful hand with our roster, most decisions were already made. We have strengths and we have weaknesses -- but all spots on our roster are not set. You don't move or a Laf or a Kakko, Buch stays put unless you get a really good offer -- and so forth. But there are other openings, and we have a -- monumental -- flaw on the roster. I've been very supportive of Gorton for a long time, but this is just one of those things that really makes me question the front-offices ability to grasp what it takes to be successful in this league.

I can guarantee that many many of the stronger hockey minds out there around the NHL would have gone lengths to address this flaw before the season starts. Fans wouldn't have been thrilled about it, do we really need that guy? We need more size etc. But just a couple of guys in the lower parts of our top 9 would have changed the outlook of this team a lot and really supported the kids better.

Ultimately we will rebound and have really good stretches mixed in with better stretches with this team. But I am already seeing worrying signs. We are more conservative with the puck. We take much fewer risks. If we have the puck and need to change lines, we never keep possession and instead just goes up to the redline and dumps it in without being pressured. We are starting to play to minimize mistakes -- because the smallest mistake we make the lack of balance cost us and we are screwed -- and that is the opposite of what this team should be doing,
 
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TheGortonConspiracy said:
Here is what I found on a preliminary investigation on faceoff % for a player over time. I chose some random players, probably chose too much high end talent for this very small sample size. I took out post-season entirely, but I left some years in such as rookie year where some players did not take many faceoffs at all.
CNhsUm1.png

I will make it into a python script over the weekend and chart the whole league
Click to expand...

Would you be able to separate results based on guys who stuck in the league before their 21st birthday and those who didn't stick until after?
 
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Machinehead said:
I'll be impressed if you can name a single instance of a star player coming into the league at 18/19 and doing nothing. Maybe Joe Thornton almost 24 years ago now?

I was expecting ups and downs. I wasn't expecting 70+ points right away. But we're not talking about just ok. Kakko just had the worst season since analytics are being tracked.

If Lafreniere doesn't get going, we have to face and address the reality that this organization is systemically incapable of developing forward talent. I think we all knew this. We blamed draft position. Fair enough.

If it doesn't work this time, we can't blame draft position anymore.
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So no, you actually cannot name a single instance of a player starting his NHL career the way that Lafreniere did. Not one instance of remotely close similar circumstances.

What you are doing is completely pretending that he has arrived in the league under the same normal conditions that all other draft picks have. You are certainly free to do so, but pretending that all is the same is not being in touch with reality.
 
Consider Gorton hired him for times like these... him and JD emphatically foretold of the ups and downs of re-building three years ago. Many folks thought Laf and Kakko, in years 1 and 2, would catapult us to contention. Gorton has assembled the worst defense corps since the Purinton-Karpa age, and I think he knows it.

What I see is players who don't trust each other and don't think as a group... and Jack Johnson. Most of that starts in locker rooms. Re-signing DeAngelo was a mistake, as was Strome but at least we've seen him to be good in the locker room. Laf slow stat but Kakko hasn't been what we hoped. Kreider is only a leader during press conferences, Z not even... and Jack Johnson.

Quinn will e the coach for awhile, and I'm OK with that, myself. I actually don't even think he's the problem. Shesterkin is taking a shit and I personally didn't think Georgiev was all that great even about a year ago. Both playing in front of Smith-DeAngelo... and Jack Johnson.
 
How about this solution for this season:

fire Greg Brown
demote David Oliver to Wolfpack

Hire proven people instead like Boudreau and somebody else.

After season ends let Quinn go or demote him to Wolfpack and let Boudreau take over as head coach.
 
Are we assuming the Rangers do not extend JJ?

Or that they will not sign or trade for another Staal, JJ, type to play for those next two years?
 
Kakko Schmakko said:
is there some issue Boudreau? Who do you want to coach this team?
Click to expand...

The issue is rather you giving Boudreau as an example of an accomplished coach ... in the AHL maybe, but in the NHL he wasn't. He had one Jack Adams award twelve years ago and hasn't accomplished jack all, except for memes.

Idk anything really about hockey strategies and such, so I stay reserved towards coaching debates, as to who is right and not.

Regardless, I like Rod Brind'amour for example. League veteran and Stanley Cup champion. That's what teams need, veteran Stanley Cup champs.
 
Semi off topic, but this team is bad at handling the puck. As an Org why don't they think outside the box? If a program can help your team/org, why not incorporate it? They always hype up Prentiss, what about a 'Prentiss' of actual on-ice training? Maybe, we will actually be able to handle the puck. Whether its in the off-season or incorporated during season...

Bring in PEP-type people to give the team some on-ice skill training. I do not notice any other NHL teams struggle with puck as much as I do with the Rangers. It's been extremely evident the first 6 games
 
TheGortonConspiracy said:
Here is what I found on a preliminary investigation on faceoff % for a player over time. I chose some random players, probably chose too much high end talent for this very small sample size. I took out post-season entirely, but I left some years in such as rookie year where some players did not take many faceoffs at all.
CNhsUm1.png

I will make it into a python script over the weekend and chart the whole league
Click to expand...

You should do 5v5 only when you do this. The PK only and PP only guys will have their numbers biased if you keep that in because average 5v4 FO% is something like 55%. Obviously there will still be strength of competition involve but might as well get rid of the one factor you can that causes issues.
 
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