Player Discussion David Quinn: Part III

[NYR]

This team does not play playoff hockey.

Thats a management issue.
GM needs to get more balance on the roster.
Coach needs to do a much better job .... you know coaching.

Haven't had a competent 4th line since JG took over..

 

[NYR]

Pshh whenever you're ready lol

 

[B17 Apricots]

Too much focus is put on DQ, Gorton and Drury plays a very big part in this too.

We have no balance on the roster. No if’s or buts about it. It’s basic hockey. Who on each line regularly drops down to support the Ds and makes sure on a shift by shift basis that we don’t lose too many players up high?

We are comically short in that department. Our top guys at it are like Panarin, Ziba and Buch.

It’s not easy and you must play the hand you are dealt — but it’s in relation to these stuff a GM that knows what he is doing makes a rough decision that has everyone else wondering a bit at first but that makes sure that the team isn’t fundamentally flawed. Our team is like building a Formula 1 car but only buying 3 wheels.

We had one opening in the top 9, we chose a high forechecker in Gauthier. Ops we only have 3 wheels, but let’s improve the clutch first...

But to me those are things that are instilled into players by good coaching. One thing Sullivan, Tortorella, Trotz, etc. all have in common is they preach good structure and like you mentioned, support from the fowards... playing as an entire unit. Its no surprise the Rangers churned out lots of good 2way players under Tortorella. When people talk about developing players and prospects those are the types of things in play. You can coach players into having a complete game

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I usually agree with most of your takes but this one is just horrifically bad and is clear evidence of armchair coaching/GM'ing without HaViNG pLaYeD tHE gAME.

By the time you reach the NHL you're not going to get better at faceoffs by practicing more. It's a skill you have or you don't. It's like saying, "hey Jack Johnson go jump rope 1,000x before practice every day to get faster". It's just not going to happen.

I agree and disagree with this.

Agree that taking a billion practice face off reps won't do much of anything. Completely disagree what you can't get better though.

These days, face offs are all about using leverage (which is honed through some level of repetition) and knowing how to cheat "legally." It's how Crosby went from awful to awesome.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The responsibilities of a coach to me are: a) to instill a cohesive strategic and tactical structure and sound fundamentals suited to the current roster, b) to promote a unifying culture centered on collaborative accountability, c) to instill good habits in young players and perpetuate the good habits of veterans, and d) to work with management to identify potential acquisitions and divestitures that ensure the preceding.

Have I missed anything? Anyway, I don’t see Quinn & Co doing a particularly good job of any of the above.

Nail on the head stuff right here

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Hayes was the league's worst faceoff guy starting out with us but he might have mostly played wing at BC.

Anyway, I'm not worried about the Rangers playing "playoff hockey." I just want them to play regular season hockey. I'm not sure the coach has found a way to do that besides Zibanejad and Panarin going Harlem Globetrotters and the rest of the guys deferring to them.

 

[NYR]

I agree and disagree with this.

Agree that taking a billion practice face off reps won't do much of anything. Completely disagree what you can't get better though.

These days, face offs are all about using leverage (which is honed through some level of repetition) and knowing how to cheat "legally." It's how Crosby went from awful to awesome.

A billion faceoff reps won't do much of anything?
Faceoffs can dictate an entire game, knucklehead

There are set plays off of offense and defensive faceoffs since the beginning of time.

Just goes to show how little you know lol

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Lol no one is talking about set plays.

The convo was about whether or not practicing faces offs makes you better at faceoffs. OP said they don't really make a difference, I agree with him.

Learn to read before popping off you dummy

 

[duhmetreE]

If Zibs and Chytil practiced against each other every practice.... Refining technique, coordination and movements... they would get better.

Do they have that coaching help in that area? I dont know.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

If Zibs and Chytil practiced against each other every practice.... Refining technique, coordination and movements... they would get better.

Do they have that coaching help in that area? I dont know.

If 2 centers are bad at face off by league standards, would going up against each other really help them improve? Or will they just stay at the same level?

 

[NYR]

Lol no one is talking about set plays.

The convo was about whether or not practicing faces offs makes you better at faceoffs. OP said they don't really make a difference, I agree with him.

Learn to read before popping off you dummy

This is just so idiotic I can't even believe I replied to it.

"Practicing faceoffs dont make you better"

Hahaha

Practicing posting every second of the day and night don't make you a better poster either, dimwit

 

[Machinehead]

I usually agree with most of your takes but this one is just horrifically bad and is clear evidence of armchair coaching/GM'ing without HaViNG pLaYeD tHE gAME.

By the time you reach the NHL you're not going to get better at faceoffs by practicing more. It's a skill you have or you don't. It's like saying, "hey Jack Johnson go jump rope 1,000x before practice every day to get faster". It's just not going to happen.

There are plenty of examples of guys who have gotten better at faceoffs.

 

[Machinehead]

Bruh.. He was a big part of the solution and reached the ultimate goal.
Ahh.. I'm gonna respectfully bow out here.
You know the rest.. It's just a matter of time until you're ready to admit it.
Ultimately..We see the game in the same light and have the same goal in mind only you like to complicate things 1000x more than they need to be..

I think the key to winning is having a good roster but I'm the one overcomplicating things.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think the key to winning is having a good roster but I'm the one overcomplicating things.

You need depth to compete. When we made it to the final, our 4th line had Boyle-Moore-Dorsett. Now our 4th line has Lemieux-Howden-Rooney/Blackwell.

Our 3rd line that season was Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello. Now it's DiGiuseppe-Chytil-Kakko.

But what's most telling is that our bottom 6 is actually playing better than our top 6. Anyone who expects this team to compete this season is setting themselves up for disappointment. That said, the issues we've seen so far with players simply not being ready for the season, that's 100% on coaching. And there's no excuse. Every team is dealing with the same "no pre season" BS

 

[NYR]

I think the key to winning is having a good roster but I'm the one overcomplicating things.

Hey..I wasn't really for this retool err rebuild and wanted to go about it the traditional way but I'm on board now and we do have a decent roster.
Elite no, but we need to fill in holes which should've been done years ago and we need a coach who knows wtf he's doing.
That simple..

 

[CasusBelli]

Nail on the head stuff right here

I tried to be exhaustive in my description.

 

[duhmetreE]

If 2 centers are bad at face off by league standards, would going up against each other really help them improve? Or will they just stay at the same level?

Do they have that coaching help in that area?

If I'm training BJJ, I have my instructor and practice against him or against someone else while he watches and coaches us both.

Once again, back to coaching, instructing etc.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I tried to be exhaustive in my description.

You were. It all boils down to his job as a coach is to have these guys playing the right way. And he sure as shit doesn't. Whether it's through motivation, systems, in game strategy - any and all of it - he doesn't have it.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Ok question to the Pro Quinn crowd:

Even with the veterans struggling, how do you explain teams like Detroit and Chicago looking better than we do? Their records aren't all the more better, but they look faster and more cohesive than the Rangers have.

Even when Rangers look better than their opponents, they've looked pretty listless. There's a serious lack of any positive emotion in their game, it's almost as if they're treating these games as pre season.

Do they have that coaching help in that area?

If I'm training BJJ, I have my instructor and practice against him or against someone else while he watches and coaches us both.

Once again, back to coaching, instructing etc.

Where do you train at?

 

[CasusBelli]

You were. It all boils down to his job as a coach is to have these guys playing the right way. And he sure as shit doesn't. Whether it's through motivation, systems, in game strategy - any and all of it - he doesn't have it.

At least Torts motivated and instilled good fundamentals. He did not try to be popular or promote pretty hockey. He’s a disciplinarian but defended his players to the end of the world — almost like a stern father. We had a good roster for that style, and instead of tweaking our roster to ensure his style continued to work, we axed him. I supported that at the time, and I’ll admit it was a mistake, but that was my taking our success for granted snd instead focusing on the aesthetic of our game. His departure did allow some players to flourish — CK comes to mind. On the other hand, it led to the AV era, which was the beginning of the end of our end. The flexibility he afforded players might have been refreshing for veterans but was anathema to the development of our players at a critical moment in their careers. Now we pay the price.

 

[NYR]

If 2 centers are bad at face off by league standards, would going up against each other really help them improve? Or will they just stay at the same level?

Question is.. How do you not improve by practicing?
Add to that..In a competitive setting?
By that logic..You're gonna get worse?
Makes no sense..

 

[NYSPORTS]

Question is.. How do you not improve by practicing?
Add to that..In a competitive setting?
By that logic..You're gonna get worse?
Makes no sense..

if you have two posters with limited intelligence do they get smarter by practicing more posting between each other?

 

[duhmetreE]

Ok question to the Pro Quinn crowd:

Even with the veterans struggling, how do you explain teams like Detroit and Chicago looking better than we do? Their records aren't all the more better, but they look faster and more cohesive than the Rangers have.

Even when Rangers look better than their opponents, they've looked pretty listless. There's a serious lack of any positive emotion in their game, it's almost as if they're treating these games as pre season.



Where do you train at?

no where

 

[Crease]

@Edge please tell me this guy is on the hot seat

 

[Kiekura]

I usually agree with most of your takes but this one is just horrifically bad and is clear evidence of armchair coaching/GM'ing without HaViNG pLaYeD tHE gAME.

By the time you reach the NHL you're not going to get better at faceoffs by practicing more. It's a skill you have or you don't. It's like saying, "hey Jack Johnson go jump rope 1,000x before practice every day to get faster". It's just not going to happen.

Umm what? Are you saying If you aren't good at faceoffs when you come to NHL, you are going to suck for ever?

Literally every rookie center usually suck at face offs and get better as time progress and they can practise more.

Mikko Koivu was just teaching Texier how to take face offs. You can and you need to practise them...