Player Discussion David Quinn: Part III

[Doriva]

How on earth Quinn expects guys to get chemistry together when he chops and changes lines every period is beyond me. Tinkering with combos every game is bad enough, but when guys aren't even kept together for 15 mins of ice time it's an indicative of a desperate coach IMO.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

And lost their starting goalie in warmup

yes, I forgot about that, I think it was Sorokin's first game in NHL.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

How on earth Quinn expects guys to get chemistry together when he chops and changes lines every period is beyond me. Tinkering with combos every game is bad enough, but when guys aren't even kept together for 15 mins of ice time it's an indicative of a desperate coach IMO.

I've been saying this from the start. He rolls out the same lines in camp and scrimmages and sticks with it tbut in game 1 it takes all of 1 period to make a change.

Then he makes lineup changes for each of the last 4 games and several in game changes throughout each game. If he is so desperate for finding the right combinations he should've tried them in the scrimmages.

Its not showing much confidence in the team... and not good to bounce the youngens around. I think Laffy and Kakko have both been on 12 different line combinations combined.

What will we see on Thursday? Howden with Panarin? Laffy centering the 4th line? Its even worse now with Chytil out 4-6. Could have demoted Strome and put Chytil with Panarin. It's a shit show.

 

[Synergy27]

How on earth Quinn expects guys to get chemistry together when he chops and changes lines every period is beyond me. Tinkering with combos every game is bad enough, but when guys aren't even kept together for 15 mins of ice time it's an indicative of a desperate coach IMO.

This is my second biggest problem with him, JMFJ being problem #1. I will forever be tainted by my experience watching relatively untalented Devils teams win the Cup over and over again. They did this because of systems play, chemistry, and roster continuity.

The cap forces roster continuity somewhat. The Rangers can’t go out and grab whatever hired gun they want anymore. But, when you’re changing lines every period you’re preventing your team from reaping gains that can be achieved thru continuity. If a line shows something in practice and makes sense strategically, let it go thru some growing pains for f***s sake.

 

[Profet]

I know how we're all frustrated... but I'm curious how much of a leash DQ has with management at this point.

 

[True Blue]

Am not sure how Quinn is responsible for two goalies to be subpar, despite high danger shots being limited (evidence of defensemen learning how to play better in Martin's system). Not sure how he is responsible for Panarin's lazy play, missed passes and shots. Not sure how he has transformed Strome to his Edmonton version. Not sure how he is responsible for for ZBad's or Kreider's disappearing act. That comprises 5 of your top 6 forwards and both of your goalies. Sure, not coming out prepared to play is on him. That used to drive me crazy under AV. But let's realize that if they simply got average play from their goalies, the youngest team in the league would be sitting at 4-2 despite 5 of the top 6 veteran forwards being out to lunch.

 

[True Blue]

I know how we're all frustrated... but I'm curious how much of a leash DQ has with management at this point.

The whole season would have to go off the rails and the young players would have to regress. The young players have not been regressing. In fact, quite the opposite. And, like I said, if they just got average play from their goalies, the season would be in better early shape.

 

[RGY]

Even if it is on the Veterans for the struggles to start the season, it is the Coaches job to get the most out of ALL of his players. Not just the young ones. You cannot fire 23 players, you can fire 1 Coach.

 

[Jayan]

Is this an actual quote? If so this is the demeanor of a coach who is about to get fired.

Not word by Word, check the presser

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Am not sure how Quinn is responsible for two goalies to be subpar, despite high danger shots being limited (evidence of defensemen learning how to play better in Martin's system). Not sure how he is responsible for Panarin's lazy play, missed passes and shots. Not sure how he has transformed Strome to his Edmonton version. Not sure how he is responsible for for ZBad's or Kreider's disappearing act. That comprises 5 of your top 6 forwards and both of your goalies. Sure, not coming out prepared to play is on him. That used to drive me crazy under AV. But let's realize that if they simply got average play from their goalies, the youngest team in the league would be sitting at 4-2 despite 5 of the top 6 veteran forwards being out to lunch.

They should be better than this even with all of the underperforming from the veterans.

He can't control guys sucking, shitty puck luck, etc but he can control how he uses those guys.

The other thing is his system isn't a system at all. He has preached "RELENTLESS!!!" since the beginning but this team still has no idea how to sustain an effective forecheck. They usually glide into the OZ with no intention of doing anything, or do so with all the aggressiveness in the world but end up in the wrong spots (Howden is the poster child for this.)

Not everything is his fault. But good coach will take a shitty hand and make the best of it, Quinns taken a shitty hand and made it even worse. He is not putting guys in a position to succeed and is relying way to heavily on scuffling veterans because "it worked last year." Playing JJ at all should be a fireable offense, That + His refusal to change anything on the PP led to the loss last night. We didn't play well, but a good coach will find a way to win that game.

 

[IronBloodedLion]

I don’t completely blame everything on Quinn. The lack of LHD and Center depth aren’t his fault. I do have major concerns about his handling of the young forwards. I said in another thread, but Kravstovs interview about coming over and being like “wtf is going on here?” really doesn’t seem so crazy now.

I also think his selective discipline has to be irking guys the wrong way too. I also think he’s shown he’s not great at getting his guys ready to play.

 

[True Blue]

They should be better than this even with all of the underperforming from the veterans.

He can't control guys sucking, shitty puck luck, etc but he can control how he uses those guys.

The other thing is his system isn't a system at all. He has preached "RELENTLESS!!!" since the beginning but this team still has no idea how to sustain an effective forecheck. They usually glide into the OZ with no intention of doing anything, or do so with all the aggressiveness in the world but end up in the wrong spots (Howden is the poster child for this.)

Not everything is his fault. But good coach will take a shitty hand and make the best of it, Quinns taken a shitty hand and made it even worse. He is not putting guys in a position to succeed and is relying way to heavily on scuffling veterans because "it worked last year." Playing JJ at all should be a fireable offense, That + His refusal to change anything on the PP led to the loss last night. We didn't play well, but a good coach will find a way to win that game.

How are they going to be better when 5 of the top 6 forwards is out to lunch? How are they going to be better with subpar goaltending performances? What team would perform? This is not luck. This is a sieve goalie and ZERO from the highest paid forwards on the team.

If the Sather's Edmonton Oilers had Gretzky, Kurri, Messier, Anderson all playing at half speed and Moog/Fuhr being poor, would they still perform the same way? Of course not.

Is he not supposed to use Panarin, ZBad, Kreider,etc? Or is your ire just reserved for Strome? And with Chytil out, now Strome cannot even get demoted. Not unless you want to see Howden there. The top lines can only be so relentless when5 of the top 6 are not showing up and the goalies are allowing scoring that not happen.

Yes, there are things here that can be examined regarding Quinn and rightfully so. But they were outplayed only in the first and last game. And had they even gotten mediocre goaltending, not outright subpar, then the team is 4-2 and the narrative becomes how he has gotten the team to have a winning record without any of his veteran star forwards playing well.

 

[True Blue]

I don’t completely blame everything on Quinn. The lack of LHD and Center depth aren’t his fault. I do have major concerns about his handling of the young forwards. I said in another thread, but Kravstovs interview about coming over and being like “wtf is going on here?” really doesn’t seem so crazy now.

What young forwards are regressing? None. Lafreniere has not dressed for a game in 10 months prior to the season starting. Kakko has looked fine. Chytil was becoming the player we had all hoped for. If Panarin & co would just bring their B game, not even A, that would open up lots of space for the 19 year olds.

 

[East Coast Bias]

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Gotta love the argument of - Player playing well, gotta be the coaching!! Player not playing well, how can you blame the coaching?! The mental hoops you have to jump through to say those things.

 

[LokiDog]

I've been saying this from the start. He rolls out the same lines in camp and scrimmages and sticks with it tbut in game 1 it takes all of 1 period to make a change.

Then he makes lineup changes for each of the last 4 games and several in game changes throughout each game. If he is so desperate for finding the right combinations he should've tried them in the scrimmages.

Its not showing much confidence in the team... and not good to bounce the youngens around. I think Laffy and Kakko have both been on 12 different line combinations combined.

What will we see on Thursday? Howden with Panarin? Laffy centering the 4th line? Its even worse now with Chytil out 4-6. Could have demoted Strome and put Chytil with Panarin. It's a shit show.

I think this is part of why so many players seem either tuned out or to have no confidence. Particularly forwards. Quinn’s usage and shuffling shows little confidence in these guys. We’ve got Phil DiGiuseppe, Colin Blackwell and Kevin Rooney in the lineup and Julian Gauthier benched how many games? Gauthier is a promising young player with a potential future in this lineup who had looked good in his limited minutes. All of those depth guys have played well, 100%, but if we’re losing and this is supposed to be a development year and a development coach, why aren’t we developing guys in favor of Kevin Rooney and Colin Blackwell?

 

[GigaChad]

It's like this guy tries one line combination for 1 period or less and if there's no chemistry, he tries something else.
A young player makes a mistake, he is punished by benching or lowering him in the lineup.
Young players then are not playing to win, but playing not to lose (their spot in the lineup).

I can't imagine how any of that is fun by any means in the long run.

Oh yeah and if Jack Johnson is in the lineup next game, it's a big middle finger for every kid there.
The punishment only applies to you, not the veterans

 

[Ruggs225]

I think this is part of why so many players seem either tuned out or to have no confidence. Particularly forwards. Quinn’s usage and shuffling shows little confidence in these guys. We’ve got Phil DiGiuseppe, Colin Blackwell and Kevin Rooney in the lineup and Julian Gauthier benched how many games? Gauthier is a promising young player with a potential future in this lineup who had looked good in his limited minutes. All of those depth guys have played well, 100%, but if we’re losing and this is supposed to be a development year and a development coach, why aren’t we developing guys in favor of Kevin Rooney and Colin Blackwell?

not for nothing but blackwell and PDG have actually played well. Rooney is meh but he is a center.

 

[duhmetreE]

LETS PUT JACK JOHNSON IN OVER SMITH

 

[JT Kreider]

I don’t completely blame everything on Quinn. The lack of LHD and Center depth aren’t his fault. I do have major concerns about his handling of the young forwards. I said in another thread, but Kravstovs interview about coming over and being like “wtf is going on here?” really doesn’t seem so crazy now.

I also think his selective discipline has to be irking guys the wrong way too. I also think he’s shown he’s not great at getting his guys ready to play.

It is Gorton's fault but god forbid blame the golden boy who brought us Fox Panarin Kakko and Laf

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Honestly I think theres a very low chance Quinn gets canned or replaced...

But what would the breaking point be? Say another... 3 straight losses? 5? 10 out of the next 12?

When does management step in and say "OK, we need to address the failure of leadership from the coach"?

 

[Harbour Dog]

Aside from Smith being better at the sport of hockey than Banana Pancakes, he is also one of the few guys that brings energy every shift.

He isn't perfect, but he plays with a pride that this team doesn't have right now.

 

[JHS]

They should be better than this even with all of the underperforming from the veterans.

He can't control guys sucking, shitty puck luck, etc but he can control how he uses those guys.

The other thing is his system isn't a system at all. He has preached "RELENTLESS!!!" since the beginning but this team still has no idea how to sustain an effective forecheck. They usually glide into the OZ with no intention of doing anything, or do so with all the aggressiveness in the world but end up in the wrong spots (Howden is the poster child for this.)

Not everything is his fault. But good coach will take a shitty hand and make the best of it, Quinns taken a shitty hand and made it even worse. He is not putting guys in a position to succeed and is relying way to heavily on scuffling veterans because "it worked last year." Playing JJ at all should be a fireable offense, That + His refusal to change anything on the PP led to the loss last night. We didn't play well, but a good coach will find a way to win that game.

A forecheck is a system and despite what it may look like, it relies on consistent practice in order for it to be effective. To me, this team looks terrible at forechecking because:
1. they don't have a system
2. they have a system and don't practice it o
3 the system is impossible to understand and therefore impossible to execute.

See here's the thing, if this was not a team wide problem for the past 3 seasons and individual players were struggling with it, it's easier to lay it on those players. When the entire team is ineffective, it's coaching because clearly not every player is incapable.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Oh he's still not fired?

 

[Kiekura]

Oh he's still not fired?

After first game i gave him 10-15 games before he is fired.