Player Discussion David Quinn: Part III

[True Blue]

That overachievement really showed up in the bubble, huh? Really showing up now, huh?

The overachievement showed up over the course of the entire season. The bubble situation, the time leading up to it and the environment surrounding it was not normal and should not be judged as normal.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Except that most of the pp time kakko got was in that last sequence when Mika got hurt.

Kakko's PP time was a facade.

It came in like 15-20 second chunks after the top unit basically called it quits for most of them. By the time the entire unit changed and they started to try to move up ice, it was closer to 10-15 seconds of PP time with 0 chance to get anything set.

But hey, who needs a different look when Ryan Strome is out there for 8 minutes doing nothing but turning the puck over?

 

[SA16]

The issue is that there is only accountability for certain players, it doesn't apply across the roster.

Exhibit A: Ryan Strome, who played about as bad a game last night as he has since he's been here but still ended up with 21+ minutes and LOADS of PP time even though he single handedly killed a bunch of them.

Well it shouldn't apply across the roster. If Panarin has a few bad games he should still be getting his regular usage. Same for Zibanejad. Same for Kreider. The issue is the guys who aren't good (like Strome) getting that sort of treatment.

 

[Inferno]

Except that most of the pp time kakko got was in that last sequence when Mika got hurt.

Fair enough but it's a fact. And like it or not no coach in the world is playing kakko over panarin kreider mika fox deangelo or buch

Zero.

You can argue strome howden lafreniere and lemieux but it also depends on what the role that is being played.

The top pp unit played almost the full 2 mins on most attempts because they had the puck almost the entire time.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I always preach patience yet question my position when i see Hughes floating around the ice making an impact while our kids with more experience and some vets appear still trying to figure things out.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Kakko's PP time was a facade.

It came in like 15-20 second chunks after the top unit basically called it quits for most of them. By the time the entire unit changed and they started to try to move up ice, it was closer to 10-15 seconds of PP time with 0 chance to get anything set.

But hey, who needs a different look when Ryan Strome is out there for 8 minutes doing nothing but turning the puck over?

Id absolutely agree, the time came in 15 second chunks. The only serious time was that last minute when Mika was out. And that pp looked terrible.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Fair enough but it's a fact. And like it or not no coach in the world is playing kakko over panarin kreider mika fox deangelo or buch

Zero.

You can argue strome howden lafreniere and lemieux but it also depends on what the role that is being played.

The top pp unit played almost the full 2 mins on most attempts because they had the puck almost the entire time.

Im not saying kakko should be on the first pp, I’m arguing that the time split should be slightly more even. 1:45 seconds of pp for pp1 should then lead to pp2 getting the bulk of the next. Give kids time to set up and figure it out.

 

[Inferno]

Kakko's PP time was a facade.

It came in like 15-20 second chunks after the top unit basically called it quits for most of them. By the time the entire unit changed and they started to try to move up ice, it was closer to 10-15 seconds of PP time with 0 chance to get anything set.

But hey, who needs a different look when Ryan Strome is out there for 8 minutes doing nothing but turning the puck over?

One can argue that strome is also on the top pp for a 2nd faceoff man if mika gets tossed.

Not saying it's a good argument but it's a valid argument.

Also..again as has been said cou tless times...the top pp scored twice...and was basically the best unit in the league last year after they were put together. Strome set up kreider for a beautiful a plus chance...if he scored there what are we saying.

And again I'll say this...if strome is coming off buch is going on. So kakko ain't playing the top pp unit until strome AND buch are gone.


If mika stays you better get used to kakko bit playing the top pp unit because panarin kreider and mika will always be there over him. Then the only other forward spot will be between him and lafreniere if buch and strome are gone

 

[IDvsEGO]

One can argue that strome is also on the top pp for a 2nd faceoff man if mika gets tossed.

Not saying it's a good argument but it's a valid argument.

Also..again as has been said cou tless times...the top pp scored twice...and was basically the best unit in the league last year after they were put together. Strome set up kreider for a beautiful a plus chance...if he scored there what are we saying.

And again I'll say this...if strome is coming off buch is going on. So kakko ain't playing the top pp unit until strome AND buch are gone.


If mika stays you better get used to kakko bit playing the top pp unit because panarin kreider and mika will always be there over him. Then the only other forward spot will be between him and lafreniere if buch and strome are gone

Kreider can and does win draws.

 

[Inferno]

Im not saying kakko should be on the first pp, I’m arguing that the time split should be slightly more even. 1:45 seconds of pp for pp1 should then lead to pp2 getting the bulk of the next. Give kids time to set up and figure it out.

And that's a bad argument.

The best pp unit in the league should be playing as much as possible.

That is if you care about winning at all.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Where I am going with this it two fold. First of all the rush to judgement after 3 games. Second of all, I would like for you to give examples of Quinn using the teams worst players ahead of Kakko or Lafreniere.

It's not 3 games, the coaching deficiencies of one NHL job Quinn have been there since jump street.

You're looking for some ice time type of example, but the fact is that Howden is a bad hockey player and he continues to get heaps of praise from the coach, never gets demoted after making mistakes, and is consistently being put out there to start games.

JACK JOHNSON IS PLAYING OVER TONY D. There's a great example. He's playing Brendan Smith over him!

 

[IDvsEGO]

And that's a bad argument.

The best pp unit in the league should be playing as much as possible.

That is if you care about winning at all.

Do you want to win 1 game or win a bunch of games? Quinn was brought in to develop players. Winning one game at the expense of developing players is the opposite of why he was brought in.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Do you want to win 1 game or win a bunch of games? Quinn was brought in to develop players. Winning one game at the expense of developing players is the opposite of why he was brought in.

No. This is wrong. Inferno is 100% correct, here. There is zero need to keep the one of the best PP units off the ice more for the sake of giving others PP time.

 

[True Blue]

It's not 3 games, the coaching deficiencies of one NHL job Quinn have been there since jump street.

You're looking for some ice time type of example, but the fact is that Howden is a bad hockey player and he continues to get heaps of praise from the coach, never gets demoted after making mistakes, and is consistently being put out there to start games.

JACK JOHNSON IS PLAYING OVER TONY D. There's a great example. He's playing Brendan Smith over him!

So no, you still cannot come up with support for your assertions.

DeAngelo was benched for being an idiot and then a double idiot and costing his team. That is called discipline.

 

[True Blue]

Id absolutely agree, the time came in 15 second chunks. The only serious time was that last minute when Mika was out. And that pp looked terrible.

So who do you propose sits so that Kakko gets more PP time? From the top PP unit, which gets the most amount of time, I mean.

Im not saying kakko should be on the first pp, I’m arguing that the time split should be slightly more even. 1:45 seconds of pp for pp1 should then lead to pp2 getting the bulk of the next. Give kids time to set up and figure it out.

The Rangers split for the PP units are the mean league wide

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

One can argue that strome is also on the top pp for a 2nd faceoff man if mika gets tossed.

Not saying it's a good argument but it's a valid argument.

Also..again as has been said cou tless times...the top pp scored twice...and was basically the best unit in the league last year after they were put together. Strome set up kreider for a beautiful a plus chance...if he scored there what are we saying.

And again I'll say this...if strome is coming off buch is going on. So kakko ain't playing the top pp unit until strome AND buch are gone.


If mika stays you better get used to kakko bit playing the top pp unit because panarin kreider and mika will always be there over him. Then the only other forward spot will be between him and lafreniere if buch and strome are gone

Oh I would have ZERO issue with Buch taking over the PP 1 role that Strome currently holds. I'm not even trying to make a case for Kakko on unit 1. I'd like unit 2 to get more ice but thats an entirely different conversation.

This comes down to the whole accountability thing. Him riding Strome on that 1st unit has done much more harm than it's done good and tbh, "they were a top unit in the league last year" is not a good reason to continue to do it. It's not last year anymore and he had very little to do with that group's success, he's had a ton to do with their lukewarm (at best) performance so far this year though.

One nice pass by Strome (and I think it was Zibanejad who beefed it, not Kreider) doesn't excuse the half dozen other bone head things he did while on the PP last night. If you're going to throw your lines in a blender after one period, I expect you to keep that mentality when you have even more data to go off of.

 

[cheech70]

I see that the assortment of Quinn trolls are back and employed after a loss. Funny how they never manage to show up after wins.

Not me...I have said Quinn needs to prove he can coach...Our 3 immediate needs are 2C,1LD and a coach who can handle this team. Quinn doesn't seem to be the one to lead us to the promised land. Weak X and O's and his meritocracy is flawed.

 

[haveandare]

Who cares if they were gimmies or they weren't? They all score the same on the scoresheet.

The fact is that kid has 6 points in his first 3 games and seems to be playing great and getting lots of ice time under Lindy. He's absolutely being given the benefit of the doubt by his coach and it's working for him. Our coach wouldn't give a player the benefit of the doubt unless his starts with "H" and ends with "OWDEN."

I assumed you cared what kind of points they were since you were complaining about him “showboating.”

The facts are he was the first pick because he was more highly regardrd, this team didn’t have a chance to pick him, and his team doesn’t have proven players ahead of him at center like ours does at wing. Should Laf be ahead of Panarin and Kreider based on current play? Should Kakko be ahead of Buchnevich? One of them is in the top 6 right out of the gate, first Kakko and now Laf. Now Kakko is on the third line, which is performing really well. That line should get more minutes but it’s not like there aren’t two lines with elite players ahead of it.

I don’t love Quinn or this start necessarily but we don’t need to manufacture huge issues where they don’t exist imo

 

[True Blue]

Not me...I have said Quinn needs to prove he can coach...Our 3 immediate needs are 2C,1LD and a coach who can handle this team. Quinn doesn't seem to be the one to lead us to the promised land. Weak X and O's and his meritocracy is flawed.

I am not sure that Quinn is here to lead the team to the promised land (depends on what your definition of that is, I guess), to be honest with you. And yes, some people are a lot more credible in their criticisms than others.

But again, barring the wheels completely coming off the bus, Quinn is not getting fired and will start his 4th season behind the bench next year.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Maybe the coach is riding his main guys because they barely had a training camp after a six-month layoffs and no exhibition games.

Maybe the GM is advising the coach to ride the guys they gave big contracts to.

Maybe the coach thinks the younger kids aren’t outperforming the veterans to gain more ice time.

Maybe the coach knows the young guys don’t have chemistry with the veterans after trying it in practice.

Maybe the young kids are happy with their roles and are willing to learn or improve in other areas while the established veterans who succeed under Quinn deserve the bigger roles.

Maybe the fans and media with zero coaching experience created unrealistic expectations for prospects they’ve been pumping for years and are in blame-mode when those expectations aren’t met as fast as they wanted them.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

So no, you still cannot come up with support for your assertions.

DeAngelo was benched for being an idiot and then a double idiot and costing his team. That is called discipline.

I just did, you're ignoring them because it disproves you. Pretty simple actually.

I don't care if Tony flipped off both refs and then shat on the ice, it just goes to show that when some players do things they get punished for it and when others play really shitty hockey they get rewarded with more playing time.

 

[SA16]

Im not saying kakko should be on the first pp, I’m arguing that the time split should be slightly more even. 1:45 seconds of pp for pp1 should then lead to pp2 getting the bulk of the next. Give kids time to set up and figure it out.

Why would you give PP2 more ice time on the next PP after PP1 played a lot on the first? That's just a strategy that makes you less likely to score. I already showed that the Rangers PP TOI distribution is only barely above average skewed to the PP1. I'd like to see the PP1 played even more.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

No thread is complete with out a completely out of touch and arrogant take from Korn and Onions.

Glad that we got that one out of the way.

 

[True Blue]

I just did, you're ignoring them because it disproves you. Pretty simple actually.

No, you have not listed one. Just tell me who the worst players are that are playing ahead of Kakko and Lafreniere. If you have indeed listed them, then apologize and am asking you to re post them. Should not be hard.

I don't care if Tony flipped off both refs and then shat on the ice, it just goes to show that when some players do things they get punished for it and when others play really shitty hockey they get rewarded with more playing time.

You may not care, but I assure you that all NHL coaches do. And who are these really crappy players who do the same things and get rewarded with more ice time?

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Personally, I think Kakko looks like a better player. He just has to wait his turn. Rangers are loaded on the wing which any coach would take advantage of.

The puck movement on the power play is fantastic and thats after no activity for 6 months. A lot of shots are missing the net. Why? They’re rusty lol. Players need repetition to get their hands and timing down. Ever hear of midseason form? Well These guys are in training camp form and the coach — any coach — knows this.

Personally, I’d rather have the veterans see more ice than the kids in the early stages of a season. You aren’t basing your playoff hopes on what teenagers do, or if they play an extra 1:30 a game. Kakko and Lafreniere will play plenty when the time is right. Now isn’t the time.