Player Discussion David Quinn: Part III

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Yeah, you can point to some questionable picks like Lias and maybe even Kravtsov but when you have 2 no brainer blue chip talents and they still can't get them going? Its on the organization/coaches.

Even when you look at Lias and Kravtsov...

The 2017 draft, the 4 players picked after Lias are Mittelstadt, Vilardi, Tippett and Rasmussen. Not like they picked the one dud in a bag full of studs.

The 2018 draft, Kravtsov was picked ahead of Bouchard, Dobson, Wahlstrom and Dellandrea. Not exactly a pick I lose sleep over.

In both cases you have to go to the 5th next player (Nečas/Farabee) to find someone you can make an argument we should have picked him but is that fair?

I think our drafting is criticized unfairly, while the actual development (or lack thereof) isn't being addressed.
 
I try not to make knee jerk reactions after every game, but the early goals directly into a penalty practically every game since he came here is unforgivable. Every single time it happens the beats need to ask him about it, much like when a dog shits on the rug and you keep having to rub their nose in it. He needs to be publicly embarrassed by it over and over again until he fixes it.

Gorton should bench Quinn for a game. And if we win our next match, bench him for another game like he idiotically benched ADA tonight.
 
I think I’ve been Kupo long enough...

Might have to change my name to GoAwayQuinn. Or, WeNeverGetAGoodQuinn.

Decisions decisions...

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Even when you look at Lias and Kravtsov...

The 2017 draft, the 4 players picked after Lias are Mittelstadt, Vilardi, Tippett and Rasmussen. Not like they picked the one dud in a bag full of studs.

The 2018 draft, Kravtsov was picked ahead of Bouchard, Dobson, Wahlstrom and Dellandrea. Not exactly a pick I lose sleep over.

In both cases you have to go to the 5th next player (Nečas/Farabee) to find someone you can make an argument we should have picked him but is that fair?

I think our drafting is criticized unfairly, while the actual development (or lack thereof) isn't being addressed.

It sounds like you are just saying we are extremely unlucky which is an egregious shift of blame
 
Time to get a real coach. Before he ruins the highest picks we've ever had and any shot at winning going forward. Then blackball this guy. This guy is so bad I almost rather have Torts back over him. I'd rather have 2018 AV back over this guy.
 
I don't think Krav's development has even been bad?

He has a really good D+1 season, a lost season last year and a pretty strong showing this year while being Sedlak'd.

Now whether or not he has a future here is a different story, but hes definitely improved.
 
I’m actually extremely curious to know if any of our in the know posters have any indication of how Quinn is viewed by management.

My fear is that since he’s Gorton and Drury’s “guy” (which he is, they love him) that he’s going to get insanely long leash and since we’ve been rebuilding there’s the old self fulfilling prophecy of low expectations thing. I fear that when maybe a better coach could be ascending the team towards contender status we will be wallowing in mediocrity with a directionless coach who is out of his depth. And that Gorton and Drury will wait too long to get rid of him and it will lead to talent not developing and the team missing it’s chance to turn into a contender. We’ve had countless examples that just stacking up with young talent is not enough a la Edmonton, Buffalo, Florida et al.


I’m not happy with Quinn but we’re not at that point yet IMO. I just worry that because of personal relationships between Gorton, Drury and Quinn that they may hesitate to make the right decision at the right time.
 
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I’m actually extremely curious to know if any of our in the know posters have any indication of how Quinn is viewed by management.

My fear is that since he’s Gorton and Drury’s “guy” (which he is, they love him) that he’s going to get insanely long leash and since we’ve been rebuilding there’s the old self fulfilling prophecy of low expectations thing. I fear that when maybe a better coach could be ascending the team towards contender status we will be wallowing in mediocrity with a directionless coach who is out of his depth. And that Gorton and Drury will wait too long to get rid of him and it will lead to talent not developing and the team missing it’s chance to turn into a contender. We’ve had countless examples that just stacking up with young talent is not enough a la Edmonton, Buffalo, Florida et al.


I’m not happy with Quinn but we’re not at that point yet IMO. I just worry that because of personal relationships between Gorton, Drury and Quinn that they may hesitate to make the right decision at the right time.

No, but only because JD is here.

JD has been around and understands things too well to allow this to happen. If this persists and Gorton/Drury are too afraid to fire their boy, all 3 of them will be gone. He's no dummy.

Simple solution would be for Quinn to stop coaching like an asshat. His decisions so far have been deplorable, like AV levels of bad.
 
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No, but only because JD is here.

JD has been around and understands things too well to allow this to happen. If this persists and Gorton/Drury are too afraid to fire their boy, all 3 of them will be gone. He's no dummy.

Simple solution would be for Quinn to stop coaching like an asshat. His decisions so far have been deplorable, like AV levels of bad.
Let me preface by saying that by the end I really didn’t like AV. But! At least AV got us to the SCF and ECF his first two seasons here so when he made completely bullshit stupid ass decisions at least you could understand why he was so sure his way was right. I disagreed at times but at least he could point to recent quantifiable success.

Plus he was here as the win-now coach which brings more pressure and a different mindset going in. David Quinn was specifically touted as a rebuild and kid friendly coach. There’s no excuse for his handling of the young talent to be a major blind spot of his. Plus compare the young talent that Quinn has to what AV had. We were losing our minds over Glass playing over Lindberg and a Buchnevich that was a shadow of what the current Buchy is. Still egregious but he didn’t have anyone close to the levels of Lafreniere or Kakko.

And at least we could quantify what AV hockey was. Quick strike counter attack, make the extra pass in the offensive zone, man to man in the d zone to try and force turnovers and quick strike the other way. That’s what he preached and you could see it on the ice, whether you liked it or not, it’s undeniable that there actually was a system. Under Quinn it’s hard to even define what his system is.
 
I think he has done an uneven job since coming on. Some guys have taken steps forward, others haven't really progressed, and there are a whole lot of questionable decisions that I just can't understand. I don't think he's terrible, but to this point he hasn't done anything to make me think he should be brought back for another year.
I was never expecting a great coach but I was expecting something different from the same old "here's the three or four guys I love for no reason, everyone else can kick rocks!"

I know every coach does that but I'm willing to just accept that when the core of the team is developed. I'm beginning to worry that Quinn is mortgaging our future to invest in Ryan Strome.
 
He already potentially ruined Lias Andersson who did have high potential ( and probably still does on the right team). Don’t let him stay long enough for Lafreniere and Kakko to regress.
 
I dont get it. This team isn't going to win Stanley Cup.

So why doesn't he let those kids play? Those kids are future. f***ing let them play! Yes they are going to make mistakes and even cost games, but that is the price you have to pay. Instead of constantly benching them and punishing them from their mistakes, let them play, tell them what they did wrong and what you want them to do instead... You know actually coach them? f***ing anyone can just bench someone when they do mistake.
 
I like Quinn and he's done some good stuff here.

However, his in game decisions regarding ice time, usage of time outs or lack thereof, starting lines, line changes etc are not nhl level

And I'm not happy with what I'm seeing regarding his prospect management. Especially after a great first year where he seemed to really connect with the young guys on the team by all accounts (Lias notwithstanding)

It's gotten to the point where sheltered minutes and limited ice time isn't going to help these kids develop. Eventually, you have to put their feet to the fire, increase their minutes and give them an actual opportunity with good players and against good players, for better or worse. Instead I see him riding guys who aren't in the long term plans for this club like Strome, Johnson, Lemieux (whom I like but is being overplayed) etc. Like we're in the 3rd round of the playoffs and don't want to play rookies
 
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Let me preface by saying that by the end I really didn’t like AV. But! At least AV got us to the SCF and ECF his first two seasons here so when he made completely bullshit stupid ass decisions at least you could understand why he was so sure his way was right. I disagreed at times but at least he could point to recent quantifiable success.

Plus he was here as the win-now coach which brings more pressure and a different mindset going in. David Quinn was specifically touted as a rebuild and kid friendly coach. There’s no excuse for his handling of the young talent to be a major blind spot of his. Plus compare the young talent that Quinn has to what AV had. We were losing our minds over Glass playing over Lindberg and a Buchnevich that was a shadow of what the current Buchy is. Still egregious but he didn’t have anyone close to the levels of Lafreniere or Kakko.

And at least we could quantify what AV hockey was. Quick strike counter attack, make the extra pass in the offensive zone, man to man in the d zone to try and force turnovers and quick strike the other way. That’s what he preached and you could see it on the ice, whether you liked it or not, it’s undeniable that there actually was a system. Under Quinn it’s hard to even define what his system is.

This is an excellent post and hits the nail on the head for me
 
Let me preface by saying that by the end I really didn’t like AV. But! At least AV got us to the SCF and ECF his first two seasons here so when he made completely bullshit stupid ass decisions at least you could understand why he was so sure his way was right. I disagreed at times but at least he could point to recent quantifiable success.

Plus he was here as the win-now coach which brings more pressure and a different mindset going in. David Quinn was specifically touted as a rebuild and kid friendly coach. There’s no excuse for his handling of the young talent to be a major blind spot of his. Plus compare the young talent that Quinn has to what AV had. We were losing our minds over Glass playing over Lindberg and a Buchnevich that was a shadow of what the current Buchy is. Still egregious but he didn’t have anyone close to the levels of Lafreniere or Kakko.

And at least we could quantify what AV hockey was. Quick strike counter attack, make the extra pass in the offensive zone, man to man in the d zone to try and force turnovers and quick strike the other way. That’s what he preached and you could see it on the ice, whether you liked it or not, it’s undeniable that there actually was a system. Under Quinn it’s hard to even define what his system is.

Does anyone remember "The stat"? 179-1-22 or something to that extend, when leading after 2 periods. That stat was amazing, and gave this fanbase a reason to sit back and feel confident going into the 3rd with a lead.

This team I wouldn't trust to defend a 3-goal lead going into the 3rd.

My biggest gripe, and you touched on this, is that David Quinn was supposed to be a development coach. they hired a coach with experience working with young players. To then look at this team prioritizing winning at all cost over developing their prospects the right way is frustrating and to me it just feels like this organization will never be in the right state of mind to go through a rebuild successfully. Back in October I told my girlfriend, jokingly, if there is 1 team I put money on to ruin a talent like Lafrenière, it would be the Rangers.

When Lias Andersson was struggling, we all blamed the player, and our drafting.

When Vitaly Kravtsov was struggling, we all blamed the player and our drafting.

Late last season Kakko mentioned in a Finnish podcast that he has trouble understanding Quinn's decisions and that he feels singled out whenever he makes a small mistake. We have Kakko starting on the 2nd line for 1 game. A game where EVERYONE was absolute dogshit. And Kakko is taken off the powerplay, and demoted to the 4th line.

And Lafrenière seems relatively unharmed by Quinn's shenanigans (so far at least). But for how long? How long are we going to wait before Quinn does the same thing to Lafrenière?

This is not to defend Lias for quitting on the team, or Kravtsov pouting and not understanding his demotion, but when it happens to three top-10 picks in a row, it is becoming really difficult to not look at Quinn. If it happens to a 4th, then all bets are off and he should just pack his bags.
 
The Rangers have sucked at drafting for decades. Has little to nothing to do with coaching. Look at Farabee under Vigneault, a coach you guys killed for mishandling Buchnevich.

I see Buchnevich playing great and 19:04 a game under Quinn killed that old narrative, so now who are we crying about? Kakko? Miller?

If you draft the right kids with a strong work ethic and selfless attitude they will adapt under any system.

Brian Leetch flourished under both Michel Bergeron and Roger Nielson — two completely different philosophies. Leetch hit 100 points under Nielsen, a trapping guru.

The Rangers are the youngest team in the league. They outshot the Devils 2:1 a game after blowing out a Cup contender. 50 shots and we’re crying about Kakko usage? Blackwood stole the game for them.

Lafreniere admitted he was not expecting the NHL to be this fast. Think about that. He played in the QMJHL and admitted he needed to adapt to the NHL’s speed.

Fox seems to be developing just fine under Quinn. Panarin, Kreider, Zibanejad, Strome all had career seasons under Quinn. DeAngelo was heading for bust territory and had his career season under Quinn. You think the players don’t know that? Their agents sure do.

Quinn is getting max results from the roster he was given. Youngest team in the league.
 
Lafreniere and Kakko won't ever reach their potential with this coach. I can see invisible question marks on top of their (Kakko/Laf) heads. They are not sure what they should be doing on the ice, and moreover what they can do.

This is more for Kakko, but he is very humble and fairly shy kid. He does exactly what coach want's him to do but i can tell he doesn't feel comfortable with it and it's ruining his game to some extent. All the creativity what he had has been taken away. He should play better but coach doesn't give him a chance, he is so talented that he should be supported more to reach his potential which is huge. Just look at the Hughes, he's in a feeding chair and NJD is not chasing wins to his detriment. Rangers should do this aswell with Kakko and Laf, because stanley cup isn't reality unless this talent pool is reaching their potential.
 
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I was never expecting a great coach but I was expecting something different from the same old "here's the three or four guys I love for no reason, everyone else can kick rocks!"

I know every coach does that but I'm willing to just accept that when the core of the team is developed. I'm beginning to worry that Quinn is mortgaging our future to invest in Ryan Strome.

Well Strome is exactly the type of player that fits into the Quinn mold that he tries to put Kakko and DeAngelo and (hopefully not) Lafreniere in as well. Doesn't try to be too fancy with the puck, hustles back, wins some faceoffs and plays the "safe" game. He'll get you 55-60 points and complements a superstar winger. Doesn't do anything spectacular, but nothing terrible either.
 
Quinn's poor handling of well liked ADA's recent benching probably didn't go over too well with the other players.
His allocation of minutes with the young talent is bad for there development. Look at Hughes flying around all night. Some mistakes but never a question on what his role is moving forward. Kakko needs minutes. Is he gliding too much? Yes...but he has to be out there till he gets it. Ridiculous with how he sticks with Strome when we need to find out about Filip as 2C. Laf on his off wing? ADA LD then benched? Top 6 in what ever fashion has to include
Bread Mika Buch............ Laf Filip K2......its not brain surgery...PS they haven't played in a long time it should be easy to give these 6 minutes close to 20 minutes each and let them learn to play.
 
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