Datsyuk - Bergeron - Hossa vs Kariya - Kopitar - Guy Lafleur

[HFpapi]

This poll is a great example of when two-way play gets way overrated. Datsuyk - Bergeron - Hossa would indeed be an absurd line and a shut down line like no other but Lafleur is BY FAR the best player in this poll and peak Kariya is the second best.

Also, hot take but I think Kopitar > Bergeron and if they switched localities for their career, no one would doubt that. Kopitar not only played on the Pacific coast (thus less attention from media & fans) but played much of his career under one of the most offensively stifling coaches and still was far more offensively prolific than Bergeron while being his equal (or close to it) defensively.

I think this poll is heavily influenced by the cult legend status Bergeron and especially Datsyuk have taken on. Datsyuk was amazing and better than his stats suggest but he was never more than a fringe top 10 player, had a very short peak, and was a mediocre-at-best playoff performer.

 

[Coffees]

The fact that the second trio somehow lost is f***ed up

They didn’t lose, boubs, Poll is still open and I will not give up. We will get justice

If the poll closes and we still lose, then it was not meant to be and we live in a illusion world

 

[BraveCanadian]

The fact that the second trio somehow lost is f***ed up

Two outta three on the first are HFBoards overrated darlings.

Just be glad they didn't put Fedorov in there to go for the sweep.

This is easily line 2 for a few reasons.

 

[wetcoast]

This thread is starting to show just how underrated Lafleur is on these boards. No one in this poll is even close to him. He is the X factor in a list of players who all rank in and around the same level, as a top 20 player of all time, while no one else has a firm case for top 100. His prime is amongst the best ever and he was clutch AF. As Scotty Bowman said "When he was on his game, there was no one better.".

This whole "no one on line 2 would touch the puck" nonsense is just laughable parody. Line 1 would touch the puck plenty of times but a lot of it would be fishing the puck out of their own net.

Sure Lafleur does better in an all time ranking but in a 7 game series with players at their peak Datsyuk and bergeron are pretty good in their own right as was Hossa.

Then again I think Lafleur is over rated because of the circumstances of his 6 year peak already so there is that.

 

[x Tame Impala]

This poll is a great example of when two-way play gets way overrated. Datsuyk - Bergeron - Hossa would indeed be an absurd line and a shut down line like no other but Lafleur is BY FAR the best player in this poll and peak Kariya is the second best.

Also, hot take but I think Kopitar > Bergeron and if they switched localities for their career, no one would doubt that. Kopitar not only played on the Pacific coast (thus less attention from media & fans) but played much of his career under one of the most offensively stifling coaches and still was far more offensively prolific than Bergeron while being his equal (or close to it) defensively.

I think this poll is heavily influenced by the cult legend status Bergeron and especially Datsyuk have taken on. Datsyuk was amazing and better than his stats suggest but he was never more than a fringe top 10 player, had a very short peak, and was a mediocre-at-best playoff performer.

I agree that Kopitar is better than Bergeron. Despite the Selke’s I think he’s the last of the bunch I’d take of: Kopitar, Datsyuk, Toews, Zetterberg shutdown 1C types

 

[HFpapi]

I agree that Kopitar is better than Bergeron. Despite the Selke’s I think he’s the last of the bunch I’d take of: Kopitar, Datsyuk, Toews, Zetterberg shutdown 1C types

Absolutely.

Don't want to sound like I'm hating on him because he was amazing and I respect his game a lot but I feel like there became a lot of revisionist history/romanticization of his career.

For most of his career he was not talked about as being in the upper echelon of centers, he was viewed more as the ultimate #2 center, the elite of the elite #2 C's but not a true superstar #1. Only near the end when he started getting Selke 4 & 5 (which is the ultimate reputation award) did people start talking about him like he was a top 5 C and made that sentiment retroactive.

At their best, Bergeron is a tier below Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Toews, and Kopitar, guys who could shut the other teams best player down as well as Bergy could but also had 80-90+ points in their bag.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Absolutely.

Don't want to sound like I'm hating on him because he was amazing and I respect his game a lot but I feel like there became a lot of revisionist history/romanticization of his career.

For most of his career he was not talked about as being in the upper echelon of centers, he was viewed more as the ultimate #2 center, the elite of the elite #2 C's but not a true superstar #1. Only near the end when he started getting Selke 4 & 5 (which is the ultimate reputation award) did people start talking about him like he was a top 5 C and made that sentiment retroactive.

At their best, Bergeron is a tier below Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Toews, and Kopitar, guys who could shut the other teams best player down as well as Bergy could but also had 80-90+ points in their bag.

If Kopitar and Bergeron were swapped in these lineups would you change your vote?

 

[HFpapi]

If Kopitar and Bergeron were swapped in these lineups would you change your vote?

No I don't think I would because my vote was mostly predicated on how highly I rate Lafleur & peak Kariya. I think both at their very best had arguments for top 3 forward in the NHL which can't be said about any of the others in this poll. (Granted I don't think Kariya would be top 3 either against Crosby, Malkin, or Ovi but still think he peaked 2nd highest among those in this poll).

In either case whether Kopi or Bergeron, they are being centred by a guy who can do the defensive heavy lifting, puck retrieval, and won't be an offensive black hole.

I'm especially high on the Kariya/Lafleur combo because we know how well Kariya played with a speedy goal scorer like Selanne so we know the play styles mesh.

 

[PM88RU]

lol at people saying 1st line couldn’t handle Lafleur.

Haven’t seen Guy live, but I’ve never heard of Lafleur as clear cut #5 above all the other candidates right after big 4, and no one claimed to rename big 4 into big 5 with him.

Dats in his prime could handle with Crosby. Heh, even Rookie Dats robbed Jagr once, and Jagr himself said he can learn from Dats “even in his age”.

Some might have recency bias, sure, but let’s admit that other clearly value non-European before expansion NHL trophies too much.

 

[SirKillalot]

The gap in offensive ability between these lines is just too much for the other line being better defensively to overcome.

You never watched Datsyuk with the puck did you?