Datsyuk - Bergeron - Hossa vs Iginla - Forsberg - Lehtinen

[Coffee]

Part of being an HF poll maker is embracing the fact the show must go on, whether you agree with the outcome or not.

6 months ago Datsyuk-Bergeron-Hossa topped out Kariya-Kopitar-Lafleur , declaring them the rightful winner



Now it’s time for the next one, which line do you take for a best of 7 playoff series ?

Pavel Datsyuk
Patrice Bergeron
Marián Hossa

Vs

Jarome Iginla
Peter Forsberg
Jere Lehtinen


(Rest of the roster for both teams is the Montreal Canadiens roster excluding top line)

Click to read more...

 

[norrisnick]

The one with 2 centers.

 

[shello]

Datsyuk option

 

[wetcoast]

The one with 2 centers.

That factor kind of wrecks the poll really.

 

[Coffee]

The one with 2 centers.

That factor kind of wrecks the poll really.

But Datsyuk has to play wing, It’s one line

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

That datsyuk line would be possession gods. I’m taking that one.

 

[bobholly39]

Neither Datsyuk nor Bergeron were particularly strong playoff performers, despite HF popular belief. They were ~ok.

Peter Forsberg is far and beyond the best playoff performer here. So I voted for his trio.

 

[Regal]

Neither Datsyuk nor Bergeron were particularly strong playoff performers, despite HF popular belief. They were ~ok.

Peter Forsberg is far and beyond the best playoff performer here. So I voted for his trio.

Same with Hossa for that matter.


I think this is close value-wise. Lehtinen is a bit of a weak link, but I also think Forsberg is the best player. Bergeron is better than Lehtinen by a more than Forsberg is better than Datsyuk, but I’d say Iginla is also a bit better than Hossa imo, and there’s value in having the best player.

More than that though I think the Forsberg line would probably have better chemistry. Forsberg and Iginla can both work the boards and are a natural playmaker-finisher combo, and Lehtinen is a crafty player who can kind of fit anywhere and had a good shot to finish if teams key in on the other two. Meanwhile Datsyuk didn’t really mesh with Hossa on Detroit.

 

[bobholly39]

Same with Hossa for that matter.


I think this is close value-wise. Lehtinen is a bit of a weak link, but I also think Forsberg is the best player. Bergeron is better than Lehtinen by a more than Forsberg is better than Datsyuk, but I’d say Iginla is also a bit better than Hossa imo, and there’s value in having the best player.

More than that though I think the Forsberg line would probably have better chemistry. Forsberg and Iginla can both work the boards and are a natural playmaker-finisher combo, and Lehtinen is a crafty player who can kind of fit anywhere and had a good shot to finish if teams key in on the other two. Meanwhile Datsyuk didn’t really mesh with Hossa on Detroit.

Yeah, I don't necessarily think it's a slam dunk for Forsberg's line here. There are pros and cons on both sides like you laid out nicely, even though I voted for Forsberg's line.

I just know a lot of people are going to see the names of Datsyuk and Bergeron and think "wow, such strong playoff performers" and vote for them, when that's not the case at all. They were good, but also often quite inconsistent in playoffs.

 

[RedHawkDown]

The first one is elite defensively across the board. Not sure how you score on those 3 guys.

Yeah, I don't necessarily think it's a slam dunk for Forsberg's line here. There are pros and cons on both sides like you laid out nicely, even though I voted for Forsberg's line.

I just know a lot of people are going to see the names of Datsyuk and Bergeron and think "wow, such strong playoff performers" and vote for them, when that's not the case at all. They were good, but also often quite inconsistent in playoffs.

Datsyuk had a bad first 4 playoffs, when he was breaking into the league - you have to remember he was a very, very late bloomer. After 15 pts in his first 41 playoff games, he had 98 pts in his next 111 playoff games.

 

[authentic]

The first one is elite defensively across the board. Not sure how you score on those 3 guys.


Datsyuk had a bad first 4 playoffs, when he was breaking into the league - you have to remember he was a very, very late bloomer. After 15 pts in his first 41 playoff games, he had 98 pts in his next 111 playoff games.

Didn’t Datsyuk play on the 4th line behind that stacked HOF lineup his first 3 seasons?

 

[wetcoast]

But Datsyuk has to play wing, It’s one line

Sure but most people are "cheating" thinking they can switch him to second line in their thinking even if its subconsciously one would think.

I voted for the Dats line but it's really close and like Regal points out foppa is the best playoff performer here and Iggy was also very good so it might be a coinflip.

 

[wetcoast]

Didn’t Datsyuk play on the 4th line behind that stacked HOF lineup his first 3 seasons?

Yes he gets a lot of grief for his overall playoff counting stats but then people gloss over his 21-3-3-6 (+1) line as a 23 year old rookie but he was only playing 10:40 per game that year.

He has a 5 year consecutive prime where he was a selke caliber center great on the dot nearly a PPG and an excellent takeaway/giveaway ratio.

 

[authentic]

Yes he gets a lot of grief for his overall playoff counting stats but then people gloss over his 21-3-3-6 (+1) line as a 23 year old rookie but he was only playing 10:40 per game that year.

He has a 5 year consecutive prime where he was a selke caliber center great on the dot nearly a PPG and an excellent takeaway/giveaway ratio.

I remember watching him in the 2011 playoffs and thinking this was the best player in the world, along with Crosby of course

 

[wetcoast]

I remember watching him in the 2011 playoffs and thinking this was the best player in the world, along with Crosby of course

Yes I had the same feeling as he was at the top of his game that post season.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Bruins could have won more than one cup if Bergeron was better offensively. I'm taking team B.

 

[norrisnick]

Didn’t Datsyuk play on the 4th line behind that stacked HOF lineup his first 3 seasons?

Correct, he didn't. He was 2nd line or higher his 2nd season and beyond.

 

[bobholly39]

The first one is elite defensively across the board. Not sure how you score on those 3 guys.


Datsyuk had a bad first 4 playoffs, when he was breaking into the league - you have to remember he was a very, very late bloomer. After 15 pts in his first 41 playoff games, he had 98 pts in his next 111 playoff games.

98 points in 111 games is still only a 72 point pace over 82 games.

In 14 playoff runs - he only surpassed a point per game 3x, and a 4th time was exactly at 1.0 ppg.

Which is my point - he's an ~okay playoff performer. I'm not saying he was bad, but generally his reputation vastly overstates his performances.

Forsberg often gets overrated on HF, but for playoffs it's one area where his stellar reputation is warranted.

 

[Regal]

The first one is elite defensively across the board. Not sure how you score on those 3 guys.


Datsyuk had a bad first 4 playoffs, when he was breaking into the league - you have to remember he was a very, very late bloomer. After 15 pts in his first 41 playoff games, he had 98 pts in his next 111 playoff games.

They’re better defensively but the other line is no slouch either. Lehtinen was elite defensively as well, and Forsberg, while a bit overrated defensively was also really good. If we’re talking about ‘04 Iginla under Sutter, he was quite good as well for a winger, even if not the level of the others. Forsberg and Iginla were also dominant possession players, and Forsberg is the best offensive player and Iginla the best goal scorer. I think it’d be quite a battle

 

[authentic]

98 points in 111 games is still only a 72 point pace over 82 games.

In 14 playoff runs - he only surpassed a point per game 3x, and a 4th time was exactly at 1.0 ppg.

Which is my point - he's an ~okay playoff performer. I'm not saying he was bad, but generally his reputation vastly overstates his performances.

Forsberg often gets overrated on HF, but for playoffs it's one area where his stellar reputation is warranted.

That still includes his last season at nearly 38, on one leg where he had 0 points in 5 games. I’m trying to get a breakdown of the top players in points and points per game from 2005-15 in the playoffs, because I know he’s higher up than people would imagine among players with a decent enough sample size combined with his defensive game. I don’t know anyone who seriously watched him during that timeframe and didn’t see a dominant player in the playoffs quite often. He wasn’t a Forsberg where he could dominate offensively while injured but his defensive game was always top notch. Hockey reference makes you pay now I’ll see if I can find it somewhere else.

 

[bobholly39]

That still includes his last season at nearly 38, on one leg where he had 0 points in 5 games. I’m trying to get a breakdown of the top players in points and points per game from 2005-15 in the playoffs, because I know he’s higher up than people would imagine among players with a decent enough sample size combined with his defensive game. I don’t know anyone who seriously watched him during that timeframe and didn’t see a dominant player in the playoffs quite often. He wasn’t a Forsberg where he could dominate offensively while injured but his defensive game was always top notch. Hockey reference makes you pay now I’ll see if I can find it somewhere else.

NHL's website is great for that. Here you go - minimum 25 playoff games played, sorted by PPG from 2005-2006 season to 2014-2015 season:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Datsyuk is 17th.

Like i said, he's ~okay as a playoff performer, just not as great as people on HF sometimes think he is.

 

[authentic]

NHL's website is great for that. Here you go - minimum 25 playoff games played, sorted by PPG from 2005-2006 season to 2014-2015 season:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Datsyuk is 17th.

Like i said, he's ~okay as a playoff performer, just not as great as people on HF sometimes think he is.

NHLs website wasn’t letting me select playoff games. Huh.

With the minimum games played at 25? That’s really good for 100+ games and the level of defense he brought... I would bump that minimum games up to atleast 40 or 50 for a more fair comparison, since you know selecting a certain 25 or so games of Datsyuk himself in this timeframe could see him at over a point per game. Also his reputation on this website is mostly that of a horrible playoff performer judging by most of the comments I see in every Datsyuk thread.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Not a very fair poll.

Lehtinen sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Peak Forsberg and Iginla were the two best players in this poll.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I mean Iginla and Forsberg were guys who were either or in contention for being the best players in the NHL at some point. Lehtinen is a clear weak link here, but in terms of pure peak Forsberg is the best player here, especially in the playoffs.