Daniel Sprong Containment Thread Part 3 | Mod Warning Post #1

[Ogrezilla]

Also an assist.. but it was on the PP so it doesn’t count.

has anybody said PP points don't count at all? Or just that they don't count for much when deciding where he belongs at 5v5?

 

[Ryder71]

which you also realize is true for Simon, Rust, and Horny, right? And they are all more rounded players who are scoring as much or more than Sprong is.

Look, I think Sprong is solid. But we had too many RW's, so we traded one.

Rust struggled mightily and with our better centers for quite a spell there. I'm not so sure Sprong would be that anemic with high skilled guys for so long. I don't know that about him, but with Rust I do. And it wouldn't be real difficult to outperform him the first 25 games or so. Sprong wasn't given that chance. To say there wasn't a legitimate or viable path at some point earlier in the season to give Sprong a look there is being intellectually dishonest. Not saying you're doing that. but you get my point.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Rust struggled mightily and with our better centers for quite a spell there. I'm not so sure Sprong would be that anemic with high skilled guys for so long. I don't know that about him, but with Rust I do. And it wouldn't be real difficult to outperform him the first 25 games or so. Sprong wasn't given that chance. To say there wasn't a legitimate or viable path at some point earlier in the season to give Sprong a look there is being intellectually dishonest. Not saying you're doing that however but you get my point.

But when Rust has that issue, he's not useless. He can still penalty kill. He can still forecheck and play defense. Sprong can't afford dry spells. Personally, I don't like having one-dimensional guys like that. It takes a lot of scoring to make up for that lack of versatility imo.

 

[Ryder71]

But when Rust has that issue, he's not useless. He can still penalty kill. He can still forecheck and play defense. Sprong can't afford dry spells. Personally, I don't like having one-dimensional guys like that. It takes a lot of scoring to make up for that lack of versatility imo.

There was a lot of angst about Rust. If I remember correctly I think JR made a comment about Rust after getting his new contract and the fact he was under performing. I honestly don't remember him being a revelation away from the puck earlier this season either. But maybe we want to think that way about him because Rust plays the way we like and fits our uneven and blatant agenda! Yeah, that's more like it.

 

[Ryder71]

has anybody said PP points don't count at all? Or just that they don't count for much when deciding where he belongs at 5v5?

This is the thing I don't understand about you 5v5 disciples. If someone is garnering PP time in whatever manner or capacity they get it, doesn't it stand to reason that such players have good offensive acumen? I mean, isn't that common sense. Wouldn't by extension such guys do better with players who have similar abilities and skillsets and with added ice time? Sprong strikes me as such a player. And that's why when in PIT he wasn't aptly given that chance some had an issue with it.

 

[Ogrezilla]

This is the thing I don't understand about you 5v5 disciples. If someone is garnering PP time in whatever manner or capacity they get it, doesn't it stand to reason that such players have good offensive acumen? I mean, isn't that common sense. Wouldn't by extension such guys do better with players who have similar abilities and skillsets and with added ice time? Sprong strikes me as such a player. And that's why when in PIT he wasn't aptly given that chance some had an issue with it.

He's playing with the same guys on the PP as he is in the top 6 5v5 with the Ducks, so I don't think so. Playing on the powerplay is way different than playing 5v5.

 

[Ryder71]

He's playing with the same guys on the PP as he is in the top 6 5v5 with the Ducks, so I don't think so. Playing on the powerplay is way different than playing 5v5.

But if you have good and skilled linemates and you yourself have skill, it stands to reason you'll produce at a higher rate than you would in being mired with some lowly ham n eggers on the 4th line.

If your center is Crosby or Malkin as opposed to say Sheahan, you're more likely to produce with Sid. Really for anyone but in particular a skilled guy who can finish.

 

[Ogrezilla]

But if you have good and skilled linemates and you yourself have skill, it stands to reason you'll produce at a higher rate than you would in being mired with some lowly ham n eggers on the 4th line.

If your center is Crosby or Malkin as opposed to say Sheahan, you're more likely to produce with Sid. Really for anyone but in particular a skilled guy who can finish.

Sure you are. But again, so are all of the guys Sprong was competing for a spot with. The goal was never to maximize Sprong, it was to win hockey games.

 

[Ryder71]

Sure you are. But again, so are all of the guys Sprong was competing for a spot with.

But Rust by comparison was playing with such players and for the longest time didn't produce. He's also not a highly skilled guy TBTH. Sprongs style suits those types of centers better.

 

[Vujtek]

Sprong has four 5v5 goals since joining the Ducks. Only Kase (8 goals) has more in same time period.

Sprong has 0.97 goals/60 on 5v5 since joining the Ducks. You know who else has that exact same number in the same time period? Phil Kessel for Penguins.

Lot of nitpicking on Sprong's 5v5 production here but seems to me he's more than carrying his weight on a struggling team, after still getting used to a new team/system/city after a mid-season trade while also still just playing his first full NHL-season.

Then why does he continue to get dropped down the lineup?

What exactly is this based on? Since joining the Ducks Sprong's TOI has never dipped below 12 minutes in a game. He's consistently getting around 14-15 minutes per game on ice time. His 5v5 TOI/game is 12:19 which is more than it is for Kesler and Silfverberg. Overall that's 8th highest amongst Ducks forwards (really 7th highest since one of the players ahead him is Åberg who they traded away and other one is Shore who they traded for, so both don't really count simultaneously).

 

[Ogrezilla]

But Rust by comparison was playing with such players and for the longest time didn't produce. He's also not a highly skilled guy TBTH. Sprongs style suits those types of centers better.

And the two years prior, and the time since, Rust has produced. And bull shit Rust's style doesn't suit them as well as Sprong's. Rust has been great for us. He produces very well for a guy who doesn't get much powerplay time. And he produces on the PK too.

If the production rates are even close to the same, I will take a guy like Rust over Sprong every time.

 

[Ryder71]

And the two years prior, and the time since, Rust has produced. And bull **** Rust's style doesn't suit them as well as Sprong's. Rust has been great for us. He produces very well for a guy who doesn't get much powerplay time. And he produces on the PK too.

If the production rates are even close to the same, I will take a guy like Rust over Sprong every time.

I get it you like the well rounded guy, even though he can go into a slump for a month at a time. I'm not a huge fan of that.

Just guessing here but you probably prefer Bergeron and Kopitar to Geno. Or Messier to Lemieux. I get it you like two way players.

Jonathan Toews, my lord, that's your guy right there. Captain serious! AINEC!!!

 

[EightyOne]

I get it you like the well rounded guy, even though he can go into a slump for a month at a time. I'm not a huge fan of that.

Just guessing here but you probably prefer Bergeron and Kopitar to Geno. Or Messier to Lemieux. I get it you like two way players.

Jonathan Toews, my lord, that's your guy right there. Captain serious! AINEC!!!

Gross!!!!!

 

[Ogrezilla]

I get it you like the well rounded guy, even though he can go into a slump for a month at a time. I'm not a huge fan of that.

Just guessing here but you probably prefer Bergeron and Kopitar to Geno. Or Messier to Lemieux. I get it you like two way players.

Jonathan Toews, my lord, that's your guy right there. Captain serious! AINEC!!!

no, because those guys are all worse producers than the skilled guy you are comparing them to. Kessel's the best RW on our team even though he isn't as well rounded as Horny or Rust. Sprong hasn't shown to be better than those guys at scoring though, so what is he better at? And here's where you say they get to play with Sid and Geno, and then we start back over

 

[Ryder71]

Gross!!!!!

When you prefer Rust to a rental in Panarin because Rust back checks, that's an easy conclusion to draw.

I like Rust, but I think Sprong got a raw deal here. And there are gaffes in how Rusty played from earlier this season that some want to ignore. And Sprong in the mean time was marginalized by a coach who clearly and completely had it out for him.

 

[Ogrezilla]

When you prefer Rust to a rental in Panarin because Rust back checks, that's an easy conclusion to draw.

that's not why I wouldn't make that trade. So sure, if you make things up, you can draw whatever conclusion you want.

 

[Ryder71]

no, because those guys are all worse producers than the skilled guy you are comparing them to. Kessel's the best RW on our team even though he isn't as well rounded as Horny or Rust. Sprong hasn't shown to be better than those guys at scoring though, so what is he better at? And here's where you say they get to play with Sid and Geno, and then we start back over

How has Rust produced the last 20 games with more ice time and with one of the best players in the world?

 

[Ogrezilla]

I like Rust, but I think Sprong got a raw deal here. And there are gaffes in how Rusty played from earlier this season that some want to ignore. And Sprong in the mean time was marginalized by a coach who clearly and completely had it out for him.

and you're ignoring that even including that rough start, Rust is producing at the same rate that Sprong has with the Ducks.

 

[Ryder71]

that's not why I wouldn't make that trade. So sure, if you make things up, you can draw whatever conclusion you want.

For you to even suggest that makes me sick. Say no to Panarin for a guy like Rust? That's sick!

 

[Ryder71]

and you're ignoring that even including that rough start, Rust is producing at the same rate that Sprong has with the Ducks.

And ones playing with an all world center, on a better team and getting more ice time, yes?

 

[Ogrezilla]

How has Rust produced the last 20 games with more ice time and with one of the best players in the world?

15 points in his last 20 games. 10 goals. All even strength or shorthanded.

 

[Ryder71]

15 points in his last 20 games. 10 goals. All even strength or shorthanded.

I don't care about even or short. So he has 15 points, Sprong has 11 points, getting less ice time, with inferior linemates. So for the last 20 games in the better situation Rust has the edge. You must feel good.

 

[Ogrezilla]

And ones playing with an all world center, on a better team and getting more ice time, yes?

They play almost identical even strength ice time. Sprong gets 2 minutes of PP time a game, Rust gets 10 seconds. Rust gets 2 minutes of PK time a game, Sprong gets none.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Oh, look at that...Pettersson had an absolute ass of a game, yet we can still be hopeful because the kid has promise. Kind of like Sprong with Ducks. Crazy right?

11pts in 20 games, 7 of those goals, good on the kid.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't care about even or short. So he has 15 points, Sprong has 11 points, getting less ice time, with inferior linemates.

That doesn't make any damn sense. Sprong scores on the powerplay, so yeah, give him that powerplay time. But he doesn't score as much as any of our other top 9 RW's at even strength. Not even close. So if he was here, he'd still be on our 4th line, even if he was scoring on the powerplay.