CULTURE

[Beneven Stanciano]

This situation has nothing to do with more scoring depth. The "core" in Toronto isn't good, and I mean that in a leadership capacity. The problem is that the Maple Leafs traded away anyone who could speak up and say something in the dressing room. I get that they brought in Thornton, Spezza, Foligno & Simmonds. "Veteran leadership".

The thing no one is understanding is, in that locker room no matter who you bring in, the pecking order is already set: Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander. No leader of this room has an abrasive, do whatever it takes to win mentality, so no one else is going to play that way. Joe Thornton isn't going to come in and deliver a "Get our heads out of our asses and play" speech, it's not his room. He's been in the loser Sharks dressing room his entire career. Bogosian has only been here a year. You don't just come into a locker room that has superstars Matthews and Marner being payed outrageous money and try to take their team away from them or tell THEM how to play. It doesn't even appear the coach can do that. Kadri would've been the last guy to have any weight to throw around like, "The hell with this type of play this is MY team". No one is going to do that now. Morgan Rielly isn't that type of guy and no one that is in a leadership position in that room seems like a winning leader.

With the big 4 making so much money, Taylor Hall, Nick Foligino, Jack Eichel, none of them are going to come in and take the reigns. Maybe only Sidney Crosby could come in for a brief period of time and give'em the ol "This is how it's done boys get behind me". Who else is going to cut to the front of the line in this locker room? The big dawgs are the big dawgs and until there is some kind of division in the locker room or someone challenges the leadership group, until there is some Tkachuk or Marchand personality that has actual Moxie for the playoffs starts talking louder than the dollar signs of other players, nothing is going to change.

Babcock saw this coming, he saw these flaws with the leadership group. Oh boo-hoo he was a meanie, do you want your coach to be your best friend or do you want to win a Stanley Cup? People are being paid millions to train, compete and be the best. As bad as things have been said about him, not one person has said he was ever less than 100% prepared or lacked focus. He cares about winning ABOVE ALL. Me personally, I would rather have a black-and-white "not good enough and this is why:" instead of "hey you're doing good and pretty soon the bounces will come your way and it's going to be ok" type of coach. And he was cast away because the Roller hockey team didn't like it. I believe he was absolutely at all times trying to win and teach/show this core group that what they think is good enough is not even close to getting it done. And what have they proven without him? What got fixed by getting rid of Mike Babcock? The team sure looks a lot happier today eh?

Until big money is moved out and a different personality is brought in, this will be tough to fix if the big 4 don't want to change their game. The Tampa Bay Lightning had their captain for 2 minutes and 47 seconds of the entire 2020 playoffs. We had ours for 2 minutes and 53 seconds in the first round. Any excuse other than not 'good enough', is going to result in a repeat.

The talent is there, the culture is definitely not.

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[Captain14]

Agree with everything.
It’s a losing culture, but MLSE will never lose money.
We need to do what the Boston fans did years back, stop buying tickets and stop buying merchandise for the franchise to start losing money. That will also never happen.

 

[Gallagbi]

Agree with everything.
It’s a losing culture, but MLSE will never lose money.
We need to do what the Boston fans did years back, stop buying tickets and stop buying merchandise for the franchise to start losing money. That will also never happen.

MLSE is an organization trying to make money. They make money hand over fist when they win in the playoffs. Every round literally doubles in price for revenue. The idea that MLSE wants to make money so bad that it causes them to be complacent with losing has never made any sense.

 

[keonsbitterness]

MLSE is an organization trying to make money. They make money hand over fist when they win in the playoffs. Every round literally doubles in price for revenue. The idea that MLSE wants to make money so bad that it causes them to be complacent with losing has never made any sense.

But they make money hand over fist regardless because their corporate clients keep renewing no matter how much MLSE raises ticket prices.

 

[Donnie740]

Let's not pretend Mike Babcock was a fantastic coach - - with the talent he had in Detroit they badly underachieved in the playoffs and choked multiple years. It's well documented that he spend way too much time and effort trying to screw over certain players he didn't like.

But I completely agree the Leafs culture needs an overhaul.

Pretty certain you'd never see Messier or Marchand get rag-dolled and do nothing but smile ridiculously while they get thrown around.

 

[Captain14]

MLSE is an organization trying to make money. They make money hand over fist when they win in the playoffs. Every round literally doubles in price for revenue. The idea that MLSE wants to make money so bad that it causes them to be complacent with losing has never made any sense.

I didn’t say that it was the cause of complacency, I said that win or lose, it doesn’t matter, they are still going to be a cash box.
Just take a look at our arena during home games, we price out the real fan by sticking us in the upper bowl if we can even afford that.
Line the lower bowl with the uber rich executives that could care less about the game or the team.
We are the only home arena that is without a doubt, the easiest building for an opposing team to play in. Kind of resembles our roster.

 

[17 Clark]

This situation has nothing to do with more scoring depth. The "core" in Toronto isn't good, and I mean that in a leadership capacity. The problem is that the Maple Leafs traded away anyone who could speak up and say something in the dressing room. I get that they brought in Thornton, Spezza, Foligno & Simmonds. "Veteran leadership".

The thing no one is understanding is, in that locker room no matter who you bring in, the pecking order is already set: Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander. No leader of this room has an abrasive, do whatever it takes to win mentality, so no one else is going to play that way. Joe Thornton isn't going to come in and deliver a "Get our heads out of our asses and play" speech, it's not his room. He's been in the loser Sharks dressing room his entire career. Bogosian has only been here a year. You don't just come into a locker room that has superstars Matthews and Marner being payed outrageous money and try to take their team away from them or tell THEM how to play. It doesn't even appear the coach can do that. Kadri would've been the last guy to have any weight to throw around like, "The hell with this type of play this is MY team". No one is going to do that now. Morgan Rielly isn't that type of guy and no one that is in a leadership position in that room seems like a winning leader.

With the big 4 making so much money, Taylor Hall, Nick Foligino, Jack Eichel, none of them are going to come in and take the reigns. Maybe only Sidney Crosby could come in for a brief period of time and give'em the ol "This is how it's done boys get behind me". Who else is going to cut to the front of the line in this locker room? The big dawgs are the big dawgs and until there is some kind of division in the locker room or someone challenges the leadership group, until there is some Tkachuk or Marchand personality that has actual Moxie for the playoffs starts talking louder than the dollar signs of other players, nothing is going to change. By culture you mean no heart no will last but least No accountability remember the Muskoka five we got the same problem again

Babcock saw this coming, he saw these flaws with the leadership group. Oh boo-hoo he was a meanie, do you want your coach to be your best friend or do you want to win a Stanley Cup? People are being paid millions to train, compete and be the best. As bad as things have been said about him, not one person has said he was ever less than 100% prepared or lacked focus. He cares about winning ABOVE ALL. Me personally, I would rather have a black-and-white "not good enough and this is why:" instead of "hey you're doing good and pretty soon the bounces will come your way and it's going to be ok" type of coach. And he was cast away because the Roller hockey team didn't like it. I believe he was absolutely at all times trying to win and teach/show this core group that what they think is good enough is not even close to getting it done. And what have they proven without him? What got fixed by getting rid of Mike Babcock? The team sure looks a lot happier today eh?

Until big money is moved out and a different personality is brought in, this will be tough to fix if the big 4 don't want to change their game. The Tampa Bay Lightning had their captain for 2 minutes and 47 seconds of the entire 2020 playoffs. We had ours for 2 minutes and 53 seconds in the first round. Any excuse other than not 'good enough', is going to result in a repeat.

The talent is there, the culture is definitely not.

 

[PromisedLand]

Team culture is a country club culture. Before we had Muskoka5 and now we have the present culture.

If you re-watch the 7 game series look at the hustle that every montreal player had

• Puck pursuit
• Attention to detail
• Board Battles/Puck Battles
• Hustle

forget about hits just the above 4 and compare it to the Leafs you will get your answer. We always play passive; hope the skill will overcome the will. Its been 5 years of this core not learning to put WILL before SKILL

Montreal hardly had to deal with any sustained offensive zone pressure. THeir game plan was simple:
- clog neutral zone; deny entries when leafs dump the puck recover/win borard battles and have easy breakouts
- if leafs gain entries then keep them to the outside force a low quality/dumb shot (because leafs will never drive to the net); recover the puck and easy breakouts

I've said it for a long time until this team learns to play against tight checking games, win board battles/puck battles (50-50 pucks); hustle/rush opposition to makes plays fast they will never induce any mistakes by the opposition and it will be easy night for the opposition

The country club culture starts from the GM. Period!

 

[17 Clark]

Team culture is a country club culture. Before we had Muskoka5 and now we have the present culture.

If you re-watch the 7 game series look at the hustle that every montreal player had

• Puck pursuit
• Attention to detail
• Board Battles/Puck Battles
• Hustle

forget about hits just the above 4 and compare it to the Leafs you will get your answer. We always play passive; hope the skill will overcome the will. Its been 5 years of this core not learning to put WILL before SKILL

Montreal hardly had to deal with any sustained offensive zone pressure. THeir game plan was simple:
- clog neutral zone; deny entries when leafs dump the puck recover/win borard battles and have easy breakouts
- if leafs gain entries then keep them to the outside force a low quality/dumb shot (because leafs will never drive to the net); recover the puck and easy breakouts

I've said it for a long time until this team learns to play against tight checking games, win board battles/puck battles (50-50 pucks); hustle/rush opposition to makes plays fast they will never induce any mistakes by the opposition and it will be easy night for the opposition

The country club culture starts from the GM. Period!

Couldn’t agree more about the country club I think this one’s worse then Muskoka five At least they had some heart

 

[AvroArrow]

Agree with everything.
It’s a losing culture, but MLSE will never lose money.
We need to do what the Boston fans did years back, stop buying tickets and stop buying merchandise for the franchise to start losing money. That will also never happen.

In a perfect world. But that'll never happen in this market.

 

[Aus34Matt]

Foligno: "Our captain is laying on the ice. I know it's accidental, but I'm still going to fight Perry."

Leafs: "Ok...... But why?"

 

[Gallagbi]

I didn’t say that it was the cause of complacency, I said that win or lose, it doesn’t matter, they are still going to be a cash box.
Just take a look at our arena during home games, we price out the real fan by sticking us in the upper bowl if we can even afford that.
Line the lower bowl with the uber rich executives that could care less about the game or the team.
We are the only home arena that is without a doubt, the easiest building for an opposing team to play in. Kind of resembles our roster.

They make a lot of money, like most corporations, they want to make more.

But they make money hand over fist regardless because their corporate clients keep renewing no matter how much MLSE raises ticket prices.

Similar to the above, do you think most corporations are sitting around suggesting they've made enough money? And are those type of companies, the ones not driven by cash, the ones who want to spite their stakeholders?

 

[keonsbitterness]

Similar to the above, do you think most corporations are sitting around suggesting they've made enough money? And are those type of companies, the ones not driven by cash, the ones who want to spite their stakeholders?

Want more, sure, but it seems they're more than happy with what they're making now.

 

[Gallagbi]

Want more, sure, but it seems they're more than happy with what they're making now.

Based on this what? Aren't we spending tons of money on non-capped hockey opportunities like coaching, scouting and development?

 

[Stephen]

The Shanaplan seems to have deferred to the kids when it comes to culture, handing the keys to the franchise over the Kyle Dubas, our Theo Epstein supposedly, which in turn gave the franchise to the young scoring stars...

We had some old school structure in place but there was always a lot of tension between the crowd that wanted the dekes and dangles and big glamorous numbers vs a more program based approach Lamoriello and Babcock may have been after. Always the fear that the coach would upset them. They would sign and they’d leave town the moment they hit free agency.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Based on this what? Aren't we spending tons of money on non-capped hockey opportunities like coaching, scouting and development?

One can also argue they have been trying to build a team for deep playoff runs in the post-Richard Peddie era. So they're either complacent, or incompetent.

 

[Gallagbi]

One can also argue they have been trying to build a team for deep playoff runs in the post-Richard Peddie era. So they're either complacent, or incompetent.

Incompetent seems like the right one. Complacent is difficult with the changes they've made over the years.

 

[Legendary]

The current culture is you can’t hurt their fee fees no matter what.