Crowdcoaching
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Maple Leaf
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- Sep 18, 2009
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makbeer
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- Sep 28, 2006
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Yes to Thornton off the ice, or at least off the PP.
Yes to trying to split Matthews and Marner.
Didn't have much issue with Sandin.
PP1 yes.
Nyalnder more TOI yes.
Engvall switch with Hyman no.
Also, I would have pulled Jack at 3-0 in game 5. For two reasons.
One, let him get a little rest he just played a B2B. Maybe that helps him reset and get back to his game 1-4 form.
Second, get Freddy into the series and see if he'd found his game yet.
In the end they had no choice and rode .892 sv% goaltending across 3 elimination games.
HamiltonNHL
Resigning Marner == Running it back
- Jan 4, 2012
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HamiltonNHL
Resigning Marner == Running it back
- Jan 4, 2012
- 22,710
- 13,885
I would have put Marner in the third line.
He wasn't a functional player this year.
It wasn't recognized he was in full mental collapse mode. Keefe tried to have him play through but that didn't work.
Matthews is largely ineffective when no one else on his line is a threat to score.
He wasn't a functional player this year.
It wasn't recognized he was in full mental collapse mode. Keefe tried to have him play through but that didn't work.
Matthews is largely ineffective when no one else on his line is a threat to score.
I like that he does that, he stays fresh. Matthews and Marner stay out too long
HamiltonNHL
Resigning Marner == Running it back
- Jan 4, 2012
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Depends on the player.
I will say I bet the winger after him has higher TOI than expected
Most of the playoffs that was Simmonds - he played 10:12 per game at even strength. Also Nylander's average shift length in the playoffs was 44 seconds, ahead of all his linemates; Kerfoot (40seconds), Galchenyuk (36 seconds), Foligno (37 seconds). Powerplay time probably skews those numbers a bit though.
hotpaws
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2009
- 22,109
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how about
-moving Hyman off the top line where he was doing nothing
-moving Spezza up with M and M to provide that line another scoring threat so they couldn't just key on Mathews
-sitting Thornton and Simmonds since they're both completely cooked
-moving Hyman off the top line where he was doing nothing
-moving Spezza up with M and M to provide that line another scoring threat so they couldn't just key on Mathews
-sitting Thornton and Simmonds since they're both completely cooked
Guy Boucher
Registered User
- Oct 22, 2008
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I would've considered putting Matthews, Marner and Nylander on different lines.
It's funny that Dubas would compare the Leafs salary structure with Pittsburgh - but Pittsburgh but Crosby, Malkin and Kessel on separate lines while the Leafs always try to overload their top line(s).
Against Columbus in g5 they put JT, Matthews and Marner on the same line. Against Montreal in g7 they ended up putting Nylander, Matthews, Marner together for large stretches. Way to make it easy for the opposition to line match.
It's funny that Dubas would compare the Leafs salary structure with Pittsburgh - but Pittsburgh but Crosby, Malkin and Kessel on separate lines while the Leafs always try to overload their top line(s).
Against Columbus in g5 they put JT, Matthews and Marner on the same line. Against Montreal in g7 they ended up putting Nylander, Matthews, Marner together for large stretches. Way to make it easy for the opposition to line match.
Galchenyuk - Kerfoot - Nylander
Hyman - Matthews - Foligno
Mikheyeve - Engvall- Marner
Simmonds- Nash - Spezza
we have no one to play with Matthews. So help me god you say Robertson
Hyman - Matthews - Foligno
Mikheyeve - Engvall- Marner
Simmonds- Nash - Spezza
we have no one to play with Matthews. So help me god you say Robertson
LastOne2100
Registered User
- Jan 2, 2017
- 8,699
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A few changes:
1) Swap Nylander and Marner for at least some time. Nylander was getting the most out of his linemates - maybe he would've gotten enough out of Matthews to wake him up.
2) Thornton stapled firmly to the press box permanently
3) Give Sandin more ice time in the regular season so he was a reasonable option in the playoffs, or, barring that, stick with Dermott exclusively in the playoffs. Nothing against Sandin - he will be huge for us for years - but you could tell he was out of his depth and playing scared.
4) More rotation of our depth players - let the younger guys hungry to prove themselves get out there and play with some of the intensity that a lot of our team lacked.
5) Completely change up the PP personnel and structure at some point during the year when it was clear it wasn't working. Needs more focus on point shots with a ton of traffic in front rather than perimeter passing. Zero players sitting waiting behind the goal line.
1) Swap Nylander and Marner for at least some time. Nylander was getting the most out of his linemates - maybe he would've gotten enough out of Matthews to wake him up.
2) Thornton stapled firmly to the press box permanently
3) Give Sandin more ice time in the regular season so he was a reasonable option in the playoffs, or, barring that, stick with Dermott exclusively in the playoffs. Nothing against Sandin - he will be huge for us for years - but you could tell he was out of his depth and playing scared.
4) More rotation of our depth players - let the younger guys hungry to prove themselves get out there and play with some of the intensity that a lot of our team lacked.
5) Completely change up the PP personnel and structure at some point during the year when it was clear it wasn't working. Needs more focus on point shots with a ton of traffic in front rather than perimeter passing. Zero players sitting waiting behind the goal line.
*H.E.M. line should have been a thing.
*88-15-12 should have stayed a thing.
*If your gonna have a soft top players core then I would have like to seen the 3rd and 4th line be told to just pound the Habs Dmen every shift and soften them up or you don't play. I would have brought in Sabourin, pointed and said hit.
*I was a fan of Simmonds and Thornton early in the year but it was clear as day they were not helpful in any sort of way. Neither guy has wheels or hands anymore so the only thing left is desire and physicality and neither brought that element. If your gonna have two guys on the 4th line that are kinda useless then Id rather have bruisers or speedsters.
*PP....yikes. For me when the pp was working, everything is quick, pass pass shot quick. Leafs receive the puck and take that extra second to make a decision and by that time nothing is available. Drop passes taking up 23 sec of pp time? Marner and Rielly should not be the guys that everything goes through. The fact that the pp was so bad leading up to for a few months and in to the playoffs is not a good look on the coaches. I blamed Manny 1st then it falls on Keefe.
Thornton and Hyman on pp1...really?....really?
Marner played too much and in too many important situations. He needs to be loose to play his style and he was stressed, trying way too hard. I think I would have moved him down the lineup to try and take some of the weight off his shoulders. He isn't ready to handle the responsibilities that we would all expect an 11 milly player to have. He might get there, he might not.
Keefes decisions...I didnt like that Nash came in for the first game over Chuck. That to me was just ill advised. Putting an obviously still not up to speed Hyman on the top line was another mistake I thought.
Keefes unwillingness to separate the dynamic duo no matter what was frustrating. I get it as they are the go to guys but not recognizing when things weren't working and adapating = not good.
Seeing Nylander take it up a notch and end up with 7 min less of ice time than the big 2......why?
*88-15-12 should have stayed a thing.
*If your gonna have a soft top players core then I would have like to seen the 3rd and 4th line be told to just pound the Habs Dmen every shift and soften them up or you don't play. I would have brought in Sabourin, pointed and said hit.
*I was a fan of Simmonds and Thornton early in the year but it was clear as day they were not helpful in any sort of way. Neither guy has wheels or hands anymore so the only thing left is desire and physicality and neither brought that element. If your gonna have two guys on the 4th line that are kinda useless then Id rather have bruisers or speedsters.
*PP....yikes. For me when the pp was working, everything is quick, pass pass shot quick. Leafs receive the puck and take that extra second to make a decision and by that time nothing is available. Drop passes taking up 23 sec of pp time? Marner and Rielly should not be the guys that everything goes through. The fact that the pp was so bad leading up to for a few months and in to the playoffs is not a good look on the coaches. I blamed Manny 1st then it falls on Keefe.
Thornton and Hyman on pp1...really?....really?
Marner played too much and in too many important situations. He needs to be loose to play his style and he was stressed, trying way too hard. I think I would have moved him down the lineup to try and take some of the weight off his shoulders. He isn't ready to handle the responsibilities that we would all expect an 11 milly player to have. He might get there, he might not.
Keefes decisions...I didnt like that Nash came in for the first game over Chuck. That to me was just ill advised. Putting an obviously still not up to speed Hyman on the top line was another mistake I thought.
Keefes unwillingness to separate the dynamic duo no matter what was frustrating. I get it as they are the go to guys but not recognizing when things weren't working and adapating = not good.
Seeing Nylander take it up a notch and end up with 7 min less of ice time than the big 2......why?
Polaris1010
Registered User
Polaris1010
Registered User
Mike Babcock used to do that, play the stars on different lines, and that got him fired.
Keefe promised to play the stars together on one line, and that got him hired.
Sort of like the time when they replaced a proven and Stanley Cup winning coach in Randy Carlyle with Peter The Meter Horechek.
Did not think it was possible for it to happen twice under the ShanaPlan era, but it did!
Simple.
Make the whole team sit and watch Avs and TB PP and tell them that’s how the PP going to run, watch and learn.
Then let them watch videos of their previous playoff series vs how Blues and TB played when they won in the playoffs. Then ask the players, can they spot the differences and can they do what the Blues and TB did. If they say yes, tell them to show it on the ice game in and game out.
Forechecking exercise in practice.
If Barb is helping to improve players skating, hire someone to teach the players how to shoot, I am not just talking about Marner but also Reilly, Hyman, Engvall and Soup. Even improving 5% for those five would probably means one more goal for every two games.
Make the whole team sit and watch Avs and TB PP and tell them that’s how the PP going to run, watch and learn.
Then let them watch videos of their previous playoff series vs how Blues and TB played when they won in the playoffs. Then ask the players, can they spot the differences and can they do what the Blues and TB did. If they say yes, tell them to show it on the ice game in and game out.
Forechecking exercise in practice.
If Barb is helping to improve players skating, hire someone to teach the players how to shoot, I am not just talking about Marner but also Reilly, Hyman, Engvall and Soup. Even improving 5% for those five would probably means one more goal for every two games.
But splitting them will probably means no Rocket, no #4 in league scoring….Mike Babcock used to do that, play the stars on different lines, and that got him fired.
Keefe promised to play the stars together on one line, and that got him hired.
Sort of like the time when they replaced a proven and Stanley Cup winning coach in Randy Carlyle with Peter The Meter Horechek.
Did not think it was possible for it to happen twice under the ShanaPlan era, but it did!
Guy Boucher
Registered User
- Oct 22, 2008
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Mike Babcock used to do that, play the stars on different lines, and that got him fired.
Keefe promised to play the stars together on one line, and that got him hired.
Sort of like the time when they replaced a proven and Stanley Cup winning coach in Randy Carlyle with Peter The Meter Horechek.
Did not think it was possible for it to happen twice under the ShanaPlan era, but it did!
Babcock wasn't a picnic either.
The problem with Babcock is that he never wanted to adapt his methods, regardless of circumstance. Sometimes it's good to overload your lines. Sometimes, its good to play Matthews/Marner 22+ minutes. But he was was stubborn about what he wanted to do with them.
The problem is that Keefe is equally stubborn. But he's stubborn doing the exact opposite of Babcock. Never spreading out his stars, never playing them fewer minutes (they were visibly tired in g7 imo, maybe if you play them less in other games they have more left in the tank), never splitting marner/matthews on the pp, etc.
I just want a coach who will adapt and try different things, especially when its not working.
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