Unless you actually analyse how "justified" every single one of those penalties was, those numbers are meaningless. The argument wasn't "Crosby draws a lot of penalties", but "Crosby draws penalties other players wouldn't be able to". And the "because you dislike him" part can easily be turned around - because you like him, you glance over the little extra things he benefits from that other people notice.
Crosby's Hit on Boychuk
- Thread starter MattMartin
- Start date
Unless you actually analyse how "justified" every single one of those penalties was, those numbers are meaningless. The argument wasn't "Crosby draws a lot of penalties", but "Crosby draws penalties other players wouldn't be able to". And the "because you dislike him" part can easily be turned around - because you like him, you glance over the little extra things he benefits from that other people notice.
Isles Junkie
Registered User
Definitely not suspension worthy IMO. It should have been a penalty though as Boychuk didn't have the puck.
PK Cronin
Bailey Fan Club Prez
- Feb 11, 2013
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I take no offense to any of your posts, they're always thorough and insightful.
As someone else mentioned, it's not necessarily that he's drawing them, but the kind that gets drawn. It's completely possible, and honestly likely, that I do see more because I dislike him (aided by the fact that he's in the same division, so I naturally see more of him). I do think I dislike him because he complains an awful lot, or used to (he's gotten better over the years), and because he gets these calls that are so outlandishly bad sometimes, which ends up hurting my team. That may not be fair, but at least I'm honest enough to acknowledge it.
Do you happen to know what his penalties drawn per 60 are over the course of his career compared to some other high profile guys is? I'd look myself but I'm not sure where to check that.
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
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Logically, it doesn't make sense for that to be the case, though. Not unless you think he doesn't draw all that many "legitimate" penalties.
Because, if you think about it, if he's drawing a total of 1 penalty per 60 minutes and your theory that he draws a bunch of bogus ones, that means he's almost never actually drawing legitimate ones. What I mean by that is, his penalties drawn number is so relatively low that, if 50% of them or whatever were BS phantom calls made in his favor, then that means he's only drawing 0.5 penalties per game that are legitimate.
Considering the fact that other "star" players draw anywhere from 0.9 (Tavares) to 1.3 (Giroux) penalties per game, and Crosby draws 1.0 penalties per game, for your theory to be correct about his totals being inflated by getting more favorable calls than anyone, that would also logically mean he's getting LESS legitimate calls than any other star player in the league.
Does that really seem likely? That if you took away every "bogus" call you believe he gets to inflate his totals, that he's drawing about half the legitimate calls that every other star player gets?
IMO, the numbers just don't back it up.
It would be one thing if he lead the league in penalties drawn, at Kadri's 2.6 drawn per game. Then you could maybe argue that half of those were bogus "because it's Crosby" types, which would still leave him at 1.3 "legitimate" draws, which is about par for a star player. But him drawing a measly 1.0 per game means that if he's getting all these bogus penalties, then it also suggests he's drawing next to zero legitimate ones.
I had to do it by individual seasons and then average them out as I couldn't find a site that did cumulative. I did a 5 year average as it would take quite a while to do all seasons for all the following. 5 years should give a pretty good indication about how each draws penalties.
Crosby's penalties drawn per 60 over the past 5 seasons:
1.14
Tavares (5 year avg):
1.08
Giroux (5 year avg):
1.3
Kane (5 year avg):
0.9
Ovechkin (5 year avg):
1.12
Giroux draws the most, Crosby, Ovechkin and Tavares are within spitting distance of each other, and Kane draws the least.
So going back to the above, if Crosby draws way more bogus calls than any other player in the league, then that would mean he also gets way less legitimate calls going his way than any star player in the league. Logically, it just doesn't make sense.
Logically? Maybe you meant to say - *I* don't think it makes sense. Because there's nothing in the numbers to support this.
A player can clearly influence how many penalties he draws. Kadri's no elite player, yet he's elite at drawing penalties. The skill of drawing penalties is probably separate from and not dependant on the general talent level of the player, so I don't see how saying - other star players draw this many penalties on average - has any bearing on Crosby's situation. Not to mention we could probably find a couple of star players who draw half as much. I see Bergeron at 0.62, Sedins at 0.66-0.67, Kessel at 0.59 (last 5 years) for example.
Again, without examining the penalties and identifying what it is in the player's playstyle that makes him good/bad at drawing penalties, these numbers don't tell a lot. Who's to say Crosby isn't simply below average at drawing legitimate penalties? We don't have the stats for this so it IS a matter of opinion, but is it unimaginable or illogical? Hardly.
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I watched that play a few times now and its a sneaky move on Crosby's part. Its not like he mauled an unsuspecting player, but Boychuk has every right to expect a guy in Crosby's position to attempt to play the puck and not take him out. Because of that, Boychuk is pretty much unprotected and vulnerable. Crosby purposely lets the puck go by and him and instead plays the body on Boychuk. It happens very fast and relatively close to the puck so I understand why the ref doesn't call it (especially at that time in the game) but its pretty clear what Crosby does. I don't think its vicious and certainly not worthy of a suspension but its pretty textbook interference.
Its a pretty heady play, to be frank, but catching a guy like that when he's not ready could potentially be dangerous, even if you don't have an elbow raised or otherwise hit him high.
I'm sure Boychuk will remember that for next time.
Its a pretty heady play, to be frank, but catching a guy like that when he's not ready could potentially be dangerous, even if you don't have an elbow raised or otherwise hit him high.
I'm sure Boychuk will remember that for next time.
Kevin27nyi
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2009
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Don't really have a problem with it for Boychuk or Crosby but I hate this NHL of picks. This ain't basketball, and Crosby was not in pursuit of the puck. Call interference.
Letang is one of the worst people for this, Del Zotto too, when the puck is against the boards and dmen throw a reverse hit on a forechecker 3 feet away from the puck. Crack down on that too.
Letang is one of the worst people for this, Del Zotto too, when the puck is against the boards and dmen throw a reverse hit on a forechecker 3 feet away from the puck. Crack down on that too.
