Craig Berube

[Beef Invictus]

hey Bill, the next time you get a chance can you ask Hextall, to find out what Torts is doing ??

hint hint....

 

[Random Forest]

The exact quote from Chief earlier today in regard to that line was, "“That’s your job. Maybe it limits your chances a little bit, but I’m not sure I agree with that that much. They’re a checking line and out there playing against a very good line, but if they do things right, they’re going to get their chances offensively."

Thanks, Bill.

Still doesn't excuse what he said in any way, though. Sure, Couturier will (and should) always get tough minutes. But he's well beyond "tough minutes". Nobody in the league gets the kind of ice time Couturier gets as regularly as he does.

EDIT: Also, major credit to you for being able to keep your cool in the vicinity of Berube. I know you hate the job he's doing as much as us but are too professional to explicitly state it in print so blatantly.

I'm absolutely with you on this. The NHL is far, far too much of an insider's club.

I guaran-damn-tee there are European coaches that could be great on the NHL level, too.

For sure. And it's even more apparent with GMs, imo. Consider the two most successful GMs in recent memory-- Dean Lombardi and Stan Bowman. Neither played pro hockey. Lombardi, a lawyer, and Bowman, a programmer, were both geeks. You don't have to play NHL hockey to be a massively successful NHL GM.

That's not to say a former player can't be a great GM, but to give such preference to guys who played pro hockey is to choose from a pool of .001% of potential candidates (ie, VERY stupid).

Obviously Bowman was the son of the best coach of all time, but if anything, that proves my point more. You don't have to play in the NHL to be a student of the game. There's no reason to believe NHL players are inherently better at evaluating talent or managing a team than an otherwise brilliant individual who didn't win the athletic lottery.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

For sure. And it's even more apparent with GMs, imo. Consider the two most successful GMs in recent memory-- Dean Lombardi and Stan Bowman. Neither played pro hockey. Lombardi, a lawyer, and Bowman, a programmer, were both geeks. You don't have to play NHL hockey to be a massively successful NHL GM.

That's not to say a former player can't be a great GM, but to give such preference to guys who played pro hockey is to choose from a pool of .001% of potential candidates (ie, VERY stupid).

Obviously Bowman was the son of the best coach of all time, but if anything, that proves my point more. You don't have to play in the NHL to be a student of the game. There's no reason to believe NHL players are inherently better at evaluating talent or managing a team than an otherwise brilliant individual who didn't win the athletic lottery.

Lombardi did play college hockey, granted it was division two but it was some type of competitive hockey.

As you mentioned with Stan his dad was Scotty which is a pretty good in & something that must regular people aren't exposed to.

Honestly Ken Hitchcock is probably the best example out there. He really only played hockey as a preteen in your average rec league. He really didn't have the resources like the other two build relationships with people involved with hockey. He truly started from the bottom & had to work his way up on his own to the NHL.

 

[Random Forest]

Lombardi did play college hockey, granted it was division two but it was some type of competitive hockey.

As you mentioned with Stan his dad was Scotty which is a pretty good in & something that must regular people aren't exposed to.

Honestly Ken Hitchcock is probably the best example out there. He really only played hockey as a preteen in your average rec league. He really didn't have the resources like the other two build relationships with people involved with hockey. He truly started from the bottom & had to work his way up on his own to the NHL.

True, but I'm only saying that you don't have to be a former pro in order to acquire the skills to be an excellent coach or GM.

Essentially, I'm saying that there are highly intelligent lawyers/engineers/programmers/etc. out there that also have deep understanding and passion for hockey and the NHL who most organizations make no effort to find.

Teams invest so many resources in scouting the talent on the ice, but virtually none for scouting managerial and coaching talent.


And then, like Beef said, there's a goldmine of coaching ability over in Europe that the NHL is unwilling to tap into.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

True, but I'm only saying that you don't have to be a former pro in order to acquire the skills to be an excellent coach or GM.

Essentially, I'm saying that there are highly intelligent lawyers/engineers/programmers/etc. out there that also have deep understanding and passion for hockey and the NHL who most organizations make no effort to find.

Teams invest so many resources in scouting the talent on the ice, but virtually none for scouting managerial and coaching talent.


And then, like Beef said, there's a goldmine of coaching ability over in Europe that the NHL is unwilling to tap into.

Well that's just life to be honest, it's not just hockey that works that way. It's like that in everyday jobs as well, it's all about who you know.

 

[Random Forest]

Well that's just life to be honest, it's not just hockey that works that way. It's like that in everyday jobs as well, it's all about who you know.

Who you know is obviously a major factor in any profession, but competence is still of vital importance. Especially in terms of actually holding said job. This is different, though.

Competence isn't valued as it should be for these positions in the NHL. And much of the time, incompetent managers and coaches get recycled over and over again.

I'm not naive enough to believe we could ever reach a point where who you know doesn't matter (nor do I necessarily believe it shouldn't matter), but that doesn't mean we have to ignore the reality that there are FAR better options out there than what the NHL is currently populated with.


It would be one thing if the guys in charge were passable. But we're talking about people who believe it's appropriate to give Clarkson 5.25m per year for seven years or that 19.9% OZone starts shouldn't have an impact on offensive production (ie, inexcusable errors in judgment). That's incompetence. These are errors that people get fired for in the real world.

 

[SgtJoseph*]

I'm willing to give Berube the benefit of the doubt here. It's clear that this year is all about keeping their "heads above water" so to speak, so I get why he's not using all the players he can. I'm sure he and Hextall have talked about this year being a transition year and that they're basically running a year long test to see who can function in what role and who ever can't, won't be back next year.

As for Berube not being ready to be a head coach, he's been an assistant in the AHL for two seasons (2004 - 2005, 2005 - 2006), an assitant coach in the NHL for multiple seasons (2006 - 2007, 2007 - 2008, 2008 - 2009, 2009 - 2010, 2010 - 2011, 2011 - 2012, 2012 - 2013) and was a head coach in the AHL for the 2007 - 2008 season and has been the Flyers head coach for most of the 2013 - 2014 season up to now. I don't know how much more time he needed to prove he can handle a head coaching position.

I think what Berube needed was some experienced assistants who had head coaching experience in the past. That's what kind of perplexes me about the Flyers letting John Paddock walk or why they haven't brought up Terry Murray to assist him. I think having someone who can help him with line matching and lineups would have been ideal for him.

Anyways, I think it's fair to give Berube a chance to see what he can do with a lineup full of players that he'll help have a say in. He was given a mess of a situation to deal with last year and he managed to dig the Flyers out of a mess. I think he's earned enough to have the benefit of the doubt with regards to what he's trying to accomplish.

Well said ! I agree with you . If things take a terrible turn etc, i would take a good hard look at perhaps swaying Mike Babcock to come to Philly if he is still available next year ......Having said that, i like Berube overall and am pulling for him and our club to get on a nice roll before too long .

 

[Akanon]

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Who you know is obviously a major factor in any profession, but competence is still of vital importance. Especially in terms of actually holding said job. This is different, though.

Competence isn't valued as it should be for these positions in the NHL. And much of the time, incompetent managers and coaches get recycled over and over again.

I'm not naive enough to believe we could ever reach a point where who you know doesn't matter (nor do I necessarily believe it shouldn't matter), but that doesn't mean we have to ignore the reality that there are FAR better options out there than what the NHL is currently populated with.


It would be one thing if the guys in charge were passable. But we're talking about people who believe it's appropriate to give Clarkson 5.25m per year for seven years or that 19.9% OZone starts shouldn't have an impact on offensive production (ie, inexcusable errors in judgment). That's incompetence. These are errors that people get fired for in the real world.

I hear what you're saying overall but there's always going to be bad GM's or Coaches in the league. It's like that in every professional sport. We even see good GM's & Coaches make fatal mistakes & never recover from them which ultimately leads to their dismissal.

I honestly think if the analyticals improve & begin to be used more you'll see it be used as an avenue for outside guys to get their foot in the door.

 

[Random Forest]

I hear what you're saying overall but there's always going to be bad GM's or Coaches in the league. It's like that in every professional sport. We even see good GM's & Coaches make fatal mistakes & never recover from them which ultimately leads to their dismissal.

That's true. I just think it's a damn shame just how poor some of them are at their jobs relative to how much better a non-connected, bright individual could be. I don't follow other sports like I follow hockey, so I can't speak to how competent they are, but in non-sports industries, this discrepancy exists, but it's just not nearly as big since incompetence almost always leads to dismissal before long.

I honestly think if the analyticals improve & begin to be used more you'll see it be used as an avenue for outside guys to get their foot in the door.

I began a post on this, but decided not to since I didn't want to get too carried away, but this is certainly my hope, and I can see the paradigm shifting before long.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Youtube snip

I love that the video repeats for an hour.

 

[Curufinwe]

The PK totally falling apart has to be on Berube. It's far more of a problem than anything he's done with the forward lines.

 

[Cootsfanclub]

The PK totally falling apart has to be on Berube. It's far more of a problem than anything he's done with the forward lines.

I couldn't believe it when Berube said they had to be more aggressive for the PK. Lappy needs some of that blame too though.

 

[Appleyard]

I don''t know why the PK has changed... it is really apparent with the defencemen.

They used to be tight to the posts and play almost a small box on the back end while the forwards pressed and clogged lanes, with the forward furthest from the play ready to collapse if the puck went down low. Almost like a 'funnel', so the opposition either had to risk a long pass through a lane for a good shot or work it down low and pick a man coming in, also through a lane, or try a jam play.

Now the D men are pressing everywhere and going to the boards not just behind the net... it means that if a D man is beaten on the boards on to a puck it is going to be a 2v1 close in, and if the pass connects a man is unmarked within 5ft of the goal and the forwards have 0 time to collapse. We have seen that happen like ~5 times in the last 7 crappy PKs we let in. The NY one and the Montreal one were almost identical, just D men pressing to far and losing their place on ice, having no lane and meaning there was a slam dunk.

The problem seems biggest when Coburn and Grossmann are together... both seem to be far, far, far too aggressive. One of the goals against one D man was past the faceoff dot I am sure!

 

[Cootsfanclub]

MDZ looks good when he's aggressive because he's fast enough to move around actually get to the puck. Grossmann just gets out of position while the opposing team gets the puck.

 

[Striiker]

You would think if anything that they'd make the PK more passive. When you have terrible defensemen, and have lost a few of the ones who made the PK good last year, you should simplify their jobs instead of giving them more to think about. Especially since mobility isn't their strong point.

But hey, what else would anyone expect our of this coach? Bad decisions are a requirement.

 

[dats81]

The PK totally falling apart has to be on Berube. It's far more of a problem than anything he's done with the forward lines.

Isn't that Lappy's job?

In all fairness Raffl's injury and Read having a down year have a big impact on that. MacDonald and Luke missing time did not help either.
But they need to work hard on getting it back to normal asap.

 

[VanFlyer]

Lombardi did play college hockey, granted it was division two but it was some type of competitive hockey.

As you mentioned with Stan his dad was Scotty which is a pretty good in & something that must regular people aren't exposed to.

Honestly Ken Hitchcock is probably the best example out there. He really only played hockey as a preteen in your average rec league. He really didn't have the resources like the other two build relationships with people involved with hockey. He truly started from the bottom & had to work his way up on his own to the NHL.

I did some research a bit back re: Hitchcock. He had some excellent turtors regarding coaching. As a Flyer fan, there is the love / hate thing for him. After reading what I read about him and his diligence / persaverance, I have respect.

That said, seeing what Lavy is doing in Nashville, I am not sure which ex-flyer coach I repsect more. Its all about getting the most out of your players and putting the right system in for the personnel.

 

[Chicken Chaser]

so ****ing sick of this team running a sports franchise like a family, just because you played for the team umpteen years ago does in no way make you the best to be it's coach at any level in todays NHL.

 

[bennysflyers16]

so ****ing sick of this team running a sports franchise like a family, just because you played for the team umpteen years ago does in no way make you the best to be it's coach at any level in todays NHL.

PK is now garbage as last year Berube didn't have time mid season to change it. Vs Rags he is on record on TV with Pierre saying he wants them to be more aggressive. Most times we get scored on is when we are too aggressive and chase the puck leaving an opponent wide open .

Having this guy as coach again is only setting us back another year. When the new guy comes in , it takes time to,change everything again.

Look at Winnipeg with Noel, now that Maurice is in, he has the same horribly defensive team playing like the Devils in their prime. They are making Pavs, ( who is in Emerys level ) look like an above average starter. Coaching matter guys, we have another ex Flyer who isn't capabale of being a head coach at this level.

 

[dingbathero]

They need 6 forward who constantly can kill. 4 being the main and the other 2 for penalties or a line change is needed. Way too many people on the Pk units.

Coots - read
Umberger - Raffl
Xxx/PEB - Rinaldo.

They need consistency out there. They don't have it in terms of doing a good job. They have it in stinking it up

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

honestly think Hextall is waiting out the Babcock situation in Det.

 

[Embiid]

They need 6 forward who constantly can kill. 4 being the main and the other 2 for penalties or a line change is needed. Way too many people on the Pk units.

Coots - read
Umberger - Raffl
Xxx/PEB - Rinaldo.

They need consistency out there. They don't have it in terms of doing a good job. They have it in stinking it up

It was nice when we had Rusty and Talbot on the Pk........

Unfortunately, Rusty thought too highly of himself and we shipped off Talbot for Clownie....

 

[Psuhockey]

honestly think Hextall is waiting out the Babcock situation in Det.

Babcock is going to have his choice of jobs. Explain why he would come to Philadelphia with no caproom, a bottom 3rd prospect system by most rankings services, and immovable deadweight at the back end of the roster?

 

[Embiid]

Babcock is going to have his choice of jobs? Explain why he would come to Philadelphia with no caproom, and bottom 3rd prospect system by most rankings services, and immovable deadweight at the back end of the roster?

We are going to win the lottery!

As I said.....Lose your honor for Connor!