Could the players revolt? (MOD: if no NHL participation in Pyeongchang)

[Confucius]

Yes, i am aware and he has earned that right after playing for them so damn much all these years.

The guy is 44 now after all.

Too bad he went back to Europe for 3 or 4 years could have been only the 2nd player to break 2000 points. Considering he has played mainly after the live puck era his accomplishments probably equal Gretzky's. Seems strange to say but Jagr is was underrated. All things being equal (had he been playing on Edmonton instead of Gretzky's) he may well have been the great one.

My favorite player.

Well other than the big M

 

[JackSlater]

Too bad he went back to Europe for 3 or 4 years could have been only the 2nd player to break 2000 points. Considering he has played mainly after the live puck era his accomplishments probably equal Gretzky's. Seems strange to say but Jagr is was underrated. All things being equal (had he been playing on Edmonton instead of Gretzky's) he may well have been the great one.

My favorite player.

Well other than the big M

I hope you aren't serious. If you don't adjust for era, Gretzky's accomplishments are far greater than Jagr's. If you do adjust for era... Gretzky's accomplishments are still far beyond Jagr's.

 

[snipes]

The Olympics is the competition with the longest ever heritage & with the greatest prestige, where folks compete against all the nations of the whole world for the sake of the sport. It is known & respected by pretty much every living soul that live in civilized society. Hence, it is a privilege to be an Olympian; probably the highest honor there is in sport. THIS is the whole point of going to the Olympics.

Absolutely.

The players want to go. Canada's head coach Mike Babcock himself said "The World Cup is great. It's not the Olympics. Let's not get that confused".

The Olympics matter very much to Canadians. But, I think a lot of us understand the reality that if the IOC don't cover the insurance and travel costs, the NHL won't foot the bill. The IOC covering the costs has taken place at every Winter Olympics since 1998.

I still think a deal gets done, you can't beat the Olympics.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Football the world's biggest sport doesn't let it's players go. The teams aren't required to release them to the Olympics even tho they can only take 3 guys over 23.

Please... You don't know what you are talking about.

First of all, soccer players don't need any permission by their clubs to participate at the Olympics because all the soccer pro leagues & international club competitions (Champions League, Europa League) are done by the time the summer Olympics begin. So soccer players that could be at the Olympics wouldn't be in breach of any contract/obligation with their clubs.
In fact, soccer at the Olympics is the way it is because it has always been a youth oriented tournament (that's why there is that no more than 3 over 23 rule). It has absolutely nothing to do with players being released or not.

Second, you are obviously not aware of how soccer pro leagues interact with international entities and competitions. I will tell you how that works: pro soccer leagues (and all other pro leagues in Europe too, including hockey) allow their players to go to all sort of games that happen during the regular season, also. Examples? Friendly tune-up games... Qualifiers for Euro Cup or World Cup... Etc etc
I understand that this doesn't happen in the NHL and therefore it's an alien concept to North Americans, but if you want to talk about something, get informed FIRST.

In conclusion, if you want to bring soccer as an example of clubs/leagues not releasing their players, it's the worst possible example. The reality is actually opposite to what you think: they release their players during the season for pretty much everything and in the off season they have zero say in what a player does sport-wise.

 

[BruinLVGA]

A good example where the World Cup means much more than Olympic gold.

The only problem is that the hockey's World Cup and the soccer's World Cup only share the name and nothing else.

One is a strictly invitational 6 teams tournament with gimmicky made up team (team Europe, team NA), age limitations (team NA), entities being represented twice (the USA, Canada & team NA), always supposed to be held in 1 nation (<- unfair advantage for the home team).

The other is a non-invitational tournament with strictly national teams only, no gimmicky and/or redundant teams, who go through a thorough qualification path (it already started for the 2018 World Cup. 2 years before the World Cup...) that sees nations from the WHOLE world compete to reach the final stage of 32 teams. The World Cup is never supposed to be held in the same nation.

The conclusion is obvious: one is a serious, righteous tournament (the soccer's World Cup)... The other is a Stars on Ice type exhibition. If the soccer's World Cup was to be transformed into a tournament with the rules of the hockey's World Cup for who is there, how they get there and where it is always held, no one would care either.
Bottom line, these are two great examples of how to do well a tournament at global scale (soccer's World Cup) and how instead to botch it completely (the hockey's World Cup).

 

[BruinLVGA]

I told you I did not care what the committee of the I.O.C represents in regards to the actual competition itself, have you not read what I have been writing?.

I mentioned the corruption of the I.O.C in regards to this supposed universal respect that you say all human beings have for the olympics as an institition!!

Do you get that this time? hopefully so.

I am not going to have some keyboard wimbledon match with you forever, I have clearly stated why an olympic hockey gold without the best playing has far lesser value then one which includes the best players.

I could not make it any more plain, if you think otherwise I don't know what to tell you. I guess you have very low standards for olympic gold medals and what they are supposed to signify.

you can go on about rankings and whatever other foolishness and dance in the aisles for the next year for all i care. It does not change a thing in regards to the value of a gold medal regarding NHL player participation.

The end.

A missed chance for you to learn something. Oh well, I tried.

Ta ta.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Absolutely.

The players want to go. Canada's head coach Mike Babcock himself said "The World Cup is great. It's not the Olympics. Let's not get that confused".

The Olympics matter very much to Canadians. But, I think a lot of us understand the reality that if the IOC don't cover the insurance and travel costs, the NHL won't foot the bill. The IOC covering the costs has taken place at every Winter Olympics since 1998.

I still think a deal gets done, you can't beat the Olympics.

good post.

 

[jj cale]

A missed chance for you to learn something. Oh well, I tried.

Ta ta.

Yeah, i really missed an opportunity there!!! Don't know how I will live with myself.

Regards, the voice of reason.

 

[Xokkeu]

Please... You don't know what you are talking about.

First of all, soccer players don't need any permission by their clubs to participate at the Olympics because all the soccer pro leagues & international club competitions (Champions League, Europa League) are done by the time the summer Olympics begin. So soccer players that could be at the Olympics wouldn't be in breach of any contract/obligation with their clubs.
In fact, soccer at the Olympics is the way it is because it has always been a youth oriented tournament (that's why there is that no more than 3 over 23 rule). It has absolutely nothing to do with players being released or not.

Second, you are obviously not aware of how soccer pro leagues interact with international entities and competitions. I will tell you how that works: pro soccer leagues (and all other pro leagues in Europe too, including hockey) allow their players to go to all sort of games that happen during the regular season, also. Examples? Friendly tune-up games... Qualifiers for Euro Cup or World Cup... Etc etc
I understand that this doesn't happen in the NHL and therefore it's an alien concept to North Americans, but if you want to talk about something, get informed FIRST.

In conclusion, if you want to bring soccer as an example of clubs/leagues not releasing their players, it's the worst possible example. The reality is actually opposite to what you think: they release their players during the season for pretty much everything and in the off season they have zero say in what a player does sport-wise.

Soccer was not always a youth orientated tournament. The age limit dates back to 1992. Before that they had a weird restriction that only players from South America and Europe could play only once in the Olympics. Whereas people from the rest of the world could play as many times as they wanted. Before the 1980s the Olympics were for amateurs which was the main reason that the FIFA World Cup vaulted it in popularity. Then in the 1980s FIFA sought to head off the Olympics having a rival competition with the above geographic and later age restrictions.

 

[snipes]

good post.

Thanks .

You liked one of my earlier posts talking about European history/nationalism and the need for us over here to not view Europe as a single continent with one identity.

I think sometimes Canadians get misunderstood here, we have a long history with the NHL. It's been "our" league and the NHL have always stood by Canadians. Canadians also have deep loyalties to their "club" teams in a near nationalistic way, does that make sense? We're tribal about our favourite NHL teams.

The 'gimmicks' will be done at the World Cup I suspect. The USA having a terrible team, and lack of buzz once Team Europe reached the finals won't be ignored. I personally have a better understanding of European nationalism through sport, and frankly it doesn't surprise me. It shouldn't be shocking that Europeans are highly nationalistic about their hockey teams representing their ancestral lands. Sometimes we forget that on our side of the Atlantic I think.

I'm still hopeful a deal gets done with the IOC and NHL. I believe in the end, the IOC will cover the insurance costs. The Olympics are the apex of best-on-best hockey in my view. All hockey nations view it as absolutely legitimate best-on-best when we have full NHL participation.

Here's to hoping the deal gets done and big egos get side aside. We need the Olympics.

 

[Jussi]

And it will still be ****.

Just like 1994?

 

[jj cale]

Just like 1994?

Yep, just like that.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Soccer was not always a youth orientated tournament. The age limit dates back to 1992. Before that they had a weird restriction that only players from South America and Europe could play only once in the Olympics. Whereas people from the rest of the world could play as many times as they wanted. Before the 1980s the Olympics were for amateurs which was the main reason that the FIFA World Cup vaulted it in popularity. Then in the 1980s FIFA sought to head off the Olympics having a rival competition with the above geographic and later age restrictions.

Good post.

Thanks .

You liked one of my earlier posts talking about European history/nationalism and the need for us over here to not view Europe as a single continent with one identity.

I think sometimes Canadians get misunderstood here, we have a long history with the NHL. It's been "our" league and the NHL have always stood by Canadians. Canadians also have deep loyalties to their "club" teams in a near nationalistic way, does that make sense? We're tribal about our favourite NHL teams.

The 'gimmicks' will be done at the World Cup I suspect. The USA having a terrible team, and lack of buzz once Team Europe reached the finals won't be ignored. I personally have a better understanding of European nationalism through sport, and frankly it doesn't surprise me. It shouldn't be shocking that Europeans are highly nationalistic about their hockey teams representing their ancestral lands. Sometimes we forget that on our side of the Atlantic I think.

I'm still hopeful a deal gets done with the IOC and NHL. I believe in the end, the IOC will cover the insurance costs. The Olympics are the apex of best-on-best hockey in my view. All hockey nations view it as absolutely legitimate best-on-best when we have full NHL participation.

Here's to hoping the deal gets done and big egos get side aside. We need the Olympics.

I liked it because it was intelligent, I like this one too.

Btw, I have a great sympathy for Canadians. But when the matter goes to hockey, some of them go all Mr Hyde on everyone else.
I understand and respect being "tribal" about one's club team, European also are like that. And that then goes onto the national team too, for us. A player from a rival club is hated when playing for the club and loved when he plays for the national team.
The strong nationalism you see, it's due to a ton of nations - all with their distinct language(s), culture and habits - being jam packed in one continent. We are talking about roughly 30 nations. That is what generate this fierce competitiveness and nationalistic sentiment.

I hope both tournament can coexist as best on best tournaments, that would be my wish.

 

[snipes]

I liked it because it was intelligent, I like this one too.

Btw, I have a great sympathy for Canadians. But when the matter goes to hockey, some of them go all Mr Hyde on everyone else.
I understand and respect being "tribal" about one's club team, European also are like that. And that then goes onto the national team too, for us. A player from a rival club is hated when playing for the club and loved when he plays for the national team.
The strong nationalism you see, it's due to a ton of nations - all with their distinct language(s), culture and habits - being jam packed in one continent. We are talking about roughly 30 nations. That is what generate this fierce competitiveness and nationalistic sentiment.

I hope both tournament can coexist as best on best tournaments, that would be my wish.

We become completely different and have a passion for hockey that really is at odds with how we are in every other area of life. You almost just have to laugh at it, it is a genuine fervent passion and love .

Completely understand and I think we perhaps on our side don't appreciate that as much. Our history is very different than European history, I mean our Dominion was essentially founded by Scottish Protestants and French Catholics cooperating out of necessity. Hard to survive the harsh Canadian climates without cooperating. I really believe we sometimes don't fully understand the intense nationalism amongst Europeans who value their distinct national character amongst each other.

In any event, I agree. I think we all want the Olympics, keep the faith that the NHL guys will be there. Nothing has been finalized, I'm remaining optimistic until we know for sure either way .

 

[BruinLVGA]

We become completely different and have a passion for hockey that really is at odds with how we are in every other area of life. You almost just have to laugh at it, it is a genuine fervent passion and love .

Completely understand and I think we perhaps on our side don't appreciate that as much. Our history is very different than European history, I mean our Dominion was essentially founded by Scottish Protestants and French Catholics cooperating out of necessity. Hard to survive the harsh Canadian climates without cooperating. I really believe we sometimes don't fully understand the intense nationalism amongst Europeans who value their distinct national character amongst each other.

In any event, I agree. I think we all want the Olympics, keep the faith that the NHL guys will be there. Nothing has been finalized, I'm remaining optimistic until we know for sure either way .

Righteous stuff, my man!

 

[Rob]

I would love to see the players revolt. Mainly because it is the best hockey in the world but secondly too listen to the NHL brass cry. If they dare try to block the players they will look like the ultimate heels.

 

[randomhockeyfan]

Ovechkin isn't the only one who will go to the next Olympics. Kuznetsov said recently "We're going there.". I don't know if by saying "we" he was including someone other than Ovechkin, but I'm sure a few other Russian NHL players will follow them.

They won't be playing against college kids, this isn't "Miracle on Ice" anymore. There are pro players of every citizenship outside of NA, even Canadians. The Olympics will be disputed between the pros from the European leagues + KHL guys + some Russian NHL players.

Good for our Russian brothers. I always admire how much Russians value being able to represent their country! The NHL has too much power right now, to the point that it's hurting the sport.

 

[Jussi]

Yep, just like that.

Guaranteed bronze medal for us! No medal for Russia, again.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Before that they had a weird restriction that only players from South America and Europe could play only once in the Olympics. Whereas people from the rest of the world could play as many times as they wanted.

The restriction for 1984 and 1988 was that European and South American players who played in the World Cup could not play in the Olympics. For example, West German Frank Mill played at both of those Olympics.

 

[Xokkeu]

The restriction for 1984 and 1988 was that European and South American players who played in the World Cup could not play in the Olympics. For example, West German Frank Mill played at both of those Olympics.

I've heard so many different things. Only players with five caps. This. No repeat Olympians. Oh well ...

 

[Tuoppi]

If the best don't go, it will

But the World championship final has close the same ratings in Canada than World cup final. I expect olympics drawing more people even without NHL players.

Another interesting fact: Ovechkins mother is a Mordvin. Their language is related to finnish.

 

[Confucius]

But the World championship final has close the same ratings in Canada than World cup final. I expect olympics drawing more people even without NHL players.

Another interesting fact: Ovechkins mother is a Mordvin. Their language is related to finnish.

I never followed Olympic hockey before the NHL was involved. Yep I missed 1980 but I've seen the tape.
I may have caught a game if it was during the weekend but I never followed the tournament.

 

[Xokkeu]

But the World championship final has close the same ratings in Canada than World cup final. I expect olympics drawing more people even without NHL players.

Another interesting fact: Ovechkins mother is a Mordvin. Their language is related to finnish.

Pretty distant relatives. Like English and Russian.

 

[Tuoppi]

Pretty distant relatives. Like English and Russian.

I know but Finnish has so few relatives.

 

[Reindl87]

If the players agree that no one would play a NHl game during the Olympics, there's absolitely nothing the NHL could do about that.
That being said, I absoluely think that NHL players should pay for their insurance when they play in the Olympics.