Could the players revolt? (MOD: if no NHL participation in Pyeongchang)

[JackSlater]

[mod]

If we can move on from the feelings of one particular poster, the players have been put into an interesting situation by the NHL. While I doubt that the players are going to take the reported NHL offer straight up, it is the first real sign of negotiation. Interesting to see what develops.

 

[Xokkeu]

[mod]

If we can move on from the feelings of one particular poster, the players have been put into an interesting situation by the NHL. While I doubt that the players are going to take the reported NHL offer straight up, it is the first real sign of negotiation. Interesting to see what develops.

I would say the NHL is just posturing. But this is a league that killed 1.5 seasons in the past decade, so I would never say that they are bluffing.

 

[JackSlater]

I would say the NHL is just posturing. But this is a league that killed 1.5 seasons in the past decade, so I would never say that they are bluffing.

I certainly respect the NHL's negotiating tactics, even though I generally don't like the results. Bettman and company are tough. To me this looks like a calculated offer, since it is unlikely that the players will accept it straight up. It allows the players to take part of the blame for NHL withdrawal from the Olympics now that the IOC insurance scapegoat might be removed. It's smart. We'll see how it plays out before too long I hope.

 

[Xokkeu]

I certainly respect the NHL's negotiating tactics, even though I generally don't like the results. Bettman and company are tough. To me this looks like a calculated offer, since it is unlikely that the players will accept it straight up. It allows the players to take part of the blame for NHL withdrawal from the Olympics now that the IOC insurance scapegoat might be removed. It's smart. We'll see how it plays out before too long I hope.

They always have the leverage. Playing careers are short, most of the NHL owners have other businesses that make them a lot of money. They can shut the NHL down forever and the owners will go on the merry way. The players meanwhile will be in the AHL and KHL. So we all know who is going to win that battle. The only way it hurt the NHL is if the fans stayed away and then caused operating loses for them on return. But the fans have shown they have battered spouse syndrome and they are back year after year no matter what.

 

[JackSlater]

They always have the leverage. Playing careers are short, most of the NHL owners have other businesses that make them a lot of money. They can shut the NHL down forever and the owners will go on the merry way. The players meanwhile will be in the AHL and KHL. So we all know who is going to win that battle. The only way it hurt the NHL is if the fans stayed away and then caused operating loses for them on return. But the fans have shown they have battered spouse syndrome and they are back year after year no matter what.

Yes in a money battle between billionaires and millionaires unsurprisingly the billionaires always win. Now what remains to be seen is if Olympic participation is collateral damage. I will take today's news as a positive, but only a mild one.

 

[Xokkeu]

Yes in a money battle between billionaires and millionaires unsurprisingly the billionaires always win. Now what remains to be seen is if Olympic participation is collateral damage. I will take today's news as a positive, but only a mild one.

What's scary is to think ifthe players say no, that means they are ready for another lockout.

 

[JackSlater]

What's scary is to think ifthe players say no, that means they are ready for another lockout.

Yes, they really doubled down in terms of fan benefit. If the players say yes, we have a legitimate Olympic tournament plus a longer period with no lockout guaranteed. Say no and things are dicey.

 

[Jussi]

Yes, they really doubled down in terms of fan benefit. If the players say yes, we have a legitimate Olympic tournament plus a longer period with no lockout guaranteed. Say no and things are dicey.

I think they should try to reply with "Yes if the escrow goes down one percent" and see what NHL's response to that would be. If the league said no, then you know there's going to be trouble down the line.

 

[Nino33]

What's scary is to think ifthe players say no, that means they are ready for another lockout.

Previous lockouts haven't been "scary" at all here in North America, people just went on with their lives and did other things, no protests/no big deal

For "arena workers" it's a scary thought, as they make little money and it affects their jobs, and I feel for them.....I couldn't care less about how it affects those "in the business of hockey" (owners/players/media) and I believe that's what the vast majority has shown they feel too in previous labour disputes/work stoppages in pro sports (regardless of the sport)

 

[Nino33]

I think they should try to reply with "Yes if the escrow goes down one percent" and see what NHL's response to that would be. If the league said no, then you know there's going to be trouble down the line.

Players already make 50% of HRR, and IMO are amply compensated as a result, so I have no problem with escrow (if players just stopped using the escalator clause every year they could reduce escrow by a lot more than 1%)

 

[JackSlater]

I think they should try to reply with "Yes if the escrow goes down one percent" and see what NHL's response to that would be. If the league said no, then you know there's going to be trouble down the line.

At this point the safest thing is to assume that there will be trouble. Given that we know how these lockouts always turn out - the owners get most of what they want, the players end up making lots of money anyway - it would be nice if we could avoid it. I see this as little more than a PR move to allow the NHL to share blame for leaving the Olympics with the players, given that they gave them an offer they would likely never accept for Olympic participation, but I still consider it better than nothing.

 

[Nino33]

I see this as little more than a PR move to allow the NHL to share blame for leaving the Olympics with the players

Do you really think the NHL fans/markets would care much if the players didn't play in the Olympics? Do you think NHL teams would suffer significantly financially if the NHLers didn't play in the Olympics?

I don't, and that's why I think it's just "normal" business/negotiating practices in todays day (I don't think PR has much to do with it at all, because I don't think it actually affects the NHL much at all regardless of whether their players are in the Olympics are not)

 

[JackSlater]

Do you really think the NHL fans/markets would care much if the players didn't play in the Olympics?

Yes, many fans will care. Fans support the NHL participating in the Olympics according to all information we have at our disposal. In general fans want the NHL to go. How much, no one knows.

Do you think NHL teams would suffer significantly financially if the NHLers didn't play in the Olympics?

Nope, I suspect that the financial situation will be mostly unchanged. I've never seen anything to indicate that the NHL gets a noteworthy gain, or a noteworthy loss, from participating in the Olympics.

I don't, and that's why I think it's just "normal" business/negotiating practices in todays day (I don't think PR has much to do with it at all, because I don't think it actually affects the NHL much at all regardless of whether their players are in the Olympics are not)

Good for you. It's your opinion with nothing to support it once again, so I really don't care.

 

[Nino33]

Yes, many fans will care. Fans support the NHL participating in the Olympics according to all information we have at our disposal. In general fans want the NHL to go. How much, no one knows.

Don't you think that fan support for the Olympics is similar to fan support for not having lockouts? My understanding is the vast majority of fans didn't want lockouts, but the lockouts didn't seem to hurt much at all if at all, so I don't see fans not going to NHL games if players don't participate in the Olympics (and thus fans won't really "care")

It's your opinion with nothing to support it once again, so I really don't care.

I didn't realize there was really anything to support your opinion noted above, but managed to respond without having to resort to "I don't care" (I think it's disingenuous to bother responding to say "I don't care")

 

[JackSlater]

Don't you think that fan support for the Olympics is similar to fan support for not having lockouts? My understanding is the vast majority of fans didn't want lockouts, but the lockouts didn't seem to hurt much at all if at all, so I don't see fans not going to NHL games if players don't participate in the Olympics (and thus fans won't really "care")

I agree that it is similar. I would even suggest that the backlash (whatever it happened to be) for the lockouts was stronger than what it may be if the NHL withdraws from the Olympics. You are talking about two different things though. The degree to which fans care dictates the affect that the NHL will feel. You are saying that the vast majority of fans don't care enough to basically boycott the NHL, and I agree. That doesn't mean that they don't care at all though.

I didn't realize there was really anything to support your opinion noted above, but managed to respond without having to resort to "I don't care" (I think it's disingenuous to bother responding to say "I don't care")

The opinion that you quoted does have support, since as I said all indications that we have (media generally) indicate that fans do want NHL participation. I prefer that to saying "I think.... (because I think.... and I think.....)". There is no real response to be made to your opinion, in which your source is yourself. The questions that you asked warranted answer, and I attempted to answer them.

 

[Nino33]

Do you think NHL teams would suffer significantly financially if the NHLers didn't play in the Olympics?

Nope, I suspect that the financial situation will be mostly unchanged. I've never seen anything to indicate that the NHL gets a noteworthy gain, or a noteworthy loss, from participating in the Olympics.

Did you realize your "nope" says the NHL doesn't suffer financially if NHLers don't participate in the Olympics? (and since the NHL is a business, this means they essentially don't suffer at all)

Don't you think that fan support for the Olympics is similar to fan support for not having lockouts? My understanding is the vast majority of fans didn't want lockouts, but the lockouts didn't seem to hurt much at all if at all, so I don't see fans not going to NHL games if players don't participate in the Olympics (and thus fans won't really "care")

I agree that it is similar. I would even suggest that the backlash (whatever it happened to be) for the lockouts was stronger than what it may be if the NHL withdraws from the Olympics. You are talking about two different things though. The degree to which fans care dictates the affect that the NHL will feel. You are saying that the vast majority of fans don't care enough to basically boycott the NHL, and I agree. That doesn't mean that they don't care at all though.

IMO fans caring in a way that has essentially no impact on the NHL is basically the same as not caring; I think in reality those that care about something but don't back it up with actual action essentially don't care as they claim they do, and their lack of action is the "proof"

 

[patnyrnyg]

Yes, many fans will care. Fans support the NHL participating in the Olympics according to all information we have at our disposal. In general fans want the NHL to go. How much, no one knows.

I have to disagree here. Only place I see people who seem to care is on this board. Most people with whom I speak would rather they not go to the Olympics as they do not want the risk of their players getting hurt. Yes, the player can get hurt in the NHL, but it is more accepted by these people if he gets hurt playing for the Rangers, Penguins, or Flyers than in the Olympics. Olympics are popular, but I know many people who could not possibly care less. Not just about hockey, but about any of the sports and yes, I am talking about fellow sports fans.

Nope, I suspect that the financial situation will be mostly unchanged. I've never seen anything to indicate that the NHL gets a noteworthy gain, or a noteworthy loss, from participating in the Olympics.

And, that right there is all that really matters. NHL going to the Olympics was never about Olympic hockey or creating an International Best on Best. It was about using the Olympics as a platform to draw more to the NHL. After 5 attempts, it hasn't worked. 2 tournaments in North America where the league conducts business haven't helped. tournaments in Europe where a decent amount of players call home, hasn't helped.

 

[JackSlater]

I have to disagree here. Only place I see people who seem to care is on this board. Most people with whom I speak would rather they not go to the Olympics as they do not want the risk of their players getting hurt. Yes, the player can get hurt in the NHL, but it is more accepted by these people if he gets hurt playing for the Rangers, Penguins, or Flyers than in the Olympics. Olympics are popular, but I know many people who could not possibly care less. Not just about hockey, but about any of the sports and yes, I am talking about fellow sports fans.

That's nice that you know some people who don't care about NHL Olympic participation. I know some who don't care as well. Never met someone who actively didn't want NHLers in the Olympics. None of this speaks to the general fan all that much, but that's fine.

And, that right there is all that really matters. NHL going to the Olympics was never about Olympic hockey or creating an International Best on Best. It was about using the Olympics as a platform to draw more to the NHL. After 5 attempts, it hasn't worked. 2 tournaments in North America where the league conducts business haven't helped. tournaments in Europe where a decent amount of players call home, hasn't helped.

Yes, we all know why the owners want to leave the Olympics. Unfortunately I am not an NHL owner, so I don't really care. If the NHL loses basically nothing from NHL participation, but participation provides the fans and players with something that most of them want, then I still fail to see the positive to not going.

 

[29dryden29]

What's scary is to think ifthe players say no, that means they are ready for another lockout.

Players voted no to NHL offer to go to Olympics.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhlpa-rejects-nhl-s-olympics-offer-1.622523

 

[Xokkeu]

Players voted no to NHL offer to go to Olympics.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhlpa-rejects-nhl-s-olympics-offer-1.622523

Too bad the CBA doesn't end this year

 

[patnyrnyg]

That's nice that you know some people who don't care about NHL Olympic participation. I know some who don't care as well. Never met someone who actively didn't want NHLers in the Olympics. None of this speaks to the general fan all that much, but that's fine.

actually, I do know many people who do not want them to go to the Olympics. I just do not think there would be much backlash from the fans, well aside from this board. A few will be on here saying they are greedy and only care about money. Then a few will say how they do not know how to grow the game, etc.

Yes, we all know why the owners want to leave the Olympics. Unfortunately I am not an NHL owner, so I don't really care. If the NHL loses basically nothing from NHL participation, but participation provides the fans and players with something that most of them want, then I still fail to see the positive to not going.

Exactly it, those without a stake in the game, want them to go for their own entertainment.

 

[JackSlater]

actually, I do know many people who do not want them to go to the Olympics. I just do not think there would be much backlash from the fans, well aside from this board. A few will be on here saying they are greedy and only care about money. Then a few will say how they do not know how to grow the game, etc.

I doubt that you know many people who do not want NHL players at the Olympics, but that's pretty irrelevant anyway. In general fans would be displeased. Would there be a big backlash that would significantly affect the NHL? I agree that such a situation is quite unlikely.

Exactly it, those without a stake in the game, want them to go for their own entertainment.

Yes... fans. Sports in general are for entertainment so I don't grasp what point you are trying to make. If your point is that fans should completely defer to NHL owners on all NHL matters, then that is pretty unrealistic and depressing.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

We can only hope the NHL shuts the Olympics down.. it does NOTHING for the league.. no growth.

Has hockey exploded in Japan? or USA? Or Italy after all the deep team usa runs? I think not.