Could the IIHF World Championships expand even more in the future?

[alko]

In 1989 there were 8 teams.
In 1997 it was 12.
And from 1999 we can see a 16 team battle.

Could it be even more in the future? Im not saying about 5 years. Even not about 10 years in future. But lets imagine a year 2039.

Many countries try to pick ice-hockey to the higher levels.
- China is investing a lot of money to this.
- Hungary is also a country with top ambitions.
- Then you have countries like Belarus, Kazakhstan, Slovenia, now demoted France and Austria.
- Next year there will be Romania to see in the elite group. Last year it was South Korea.

If we imagine, that the overall level will go up, could there be a IIHF World Championships with lets say 20 teams?

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[jonas2244]

Romania will play DivIA, and not in the Elite group.

 

[Atas2000]

It is fine as it is for now. Adding more 10:0 blowout teams would be too much. I also don't see the potential for more teams joining the elite.

 

[FiLe]

The funny thing is, Div IA appears to have gotten tougher. There're plenty more potential "elevator teams" than there were a few years back.

However, at the same time, the gap between this group and those who constantly play in the elite level has not gotten much narrower. In fact, it may have gotten a bit wider, since the so-called "second tier" countries that are a step below the Big Six have maybe managed to somewhat narrow the gap between themselves and the best of the best.

So adding more teams from Div IA would not really add anything to the top tier competition, at least presently. The time for that should be when we see start seeing various second tierers making frequent visits to Div IA.

 

[Nexon]

In 1989 there were 8 teams.
In 1997 it was 12.
And from 1999 we can see a 16 team battle.

Could it be even more in the future? Im not saying about 5 years. Even not about 10 years in future. But lets imagine a year 2039.

Many countries try to pick ice-hockey to the higher levels.
- China is investing a lot of money to this.
- Hungary is also a country with top ambitions.
- Then you have countries like Belarus, Kazakhstan, Slovenia, now demoted France and Austria.
- Next year there will be Romania to see in the elite group. Last year it was South Korea.

If we imagine, that the overall level will go up, could there be a IIHF World Championships with lets say 20 teams?

China is investing into sport just because 2022olympics, they will most probably stop donating after. Just like Koreans after their olympics, they even cancelled millitary hockey program which was main hockey players source.

 

[Namejs]

No.

If it remains an annual event, it definitely should not be expanded to more teams.

A bi-annual event or a World Cup taking place every 4 years would make more sense, obviously. And in that case an expansion to 24 or more teams could be possible.

 

[Maverick41]

The funny thing is, Div IA appears to have gotten tougher. There're plenty more potential "elevator teams" than there were a few years back.

However, at the same time, the gap between this group and those who constantly play in the elite level has not gotten much narrower. In fact, it may have gotten a bit wider, since the so-called "second tier" countries that are a step below the Big Six have maybe managed to somewhat narrow the gap between themselves and the best of the best.

So adding more teams from Div IA would not really add anything to the top tier competition, at least presently. The time for that should be when we see start seeing various second tierers making frequent visits to Div IA.

I don't know if this can work financially or logistically, but maybe it would make sense to expand Div Ia to 8 or 10 teams.

 

[alko]

Romania will play DivIA, and not in the Elite group.

Correct. Belarus and Kazachstan.

It is fine as it is for now. Adding more 10:0 blowout teams would be too much. I also don't see the potential for more teams joining the elite.

.

It is. But, as written, how about 20 years in future.
Maybe the elite six will be still way better as others. But the second tier will have much more competitors.

 

[ThaiTanicDK]

If hockey could grow world wide I would say yes. For now its an extremely niche sports played in very few countries.

A country like Denmark has 5000 registred hockey players, yet managed to stay in the top division for 17 years straight now. DK Won 9-0 against GB, but lost 5-0 to Canada. The difference between the teams is just way too big and IMO the top division should be even smaller.

I would love to see a 6 nations cup like they got in Rugby.

 

[member 305909]

A queastion of when, not if. I am opposed to such an idea but I'm not the one whose opinion the IIHF-bosses ask.

My bet is 24 teams. Four groups of six with top four from each group qualifying for 16-team play-offs. The finalists would play 9 games.

 

[Atas2000]

.

It is. But, as written, how about 20 years in future.
Maybe the elite six will be still way better as others. But the second tier will have much more competitors.

How about 20 years in the past? The top nations were stronger then. And the weaker ones have not made the jump. In other words I don't see it happening.

 

[GermanNuck]

I would love to see a 6 nations cup like they got in Rugby.

But that’s the issue. There a no emerging rugby nations since the top is so narrow. What’s the point? I think Switzerland and Germany are good examples of how teams can develop if their challenged and also get their place to shine amongst big nations.

You can see that in football as well. Iceland is a tiny nation that performs well, Wales, some countries on the Balkan. They got there because their countries presented themselves on a big stage not because they played in some „losers tournament“ because France, England, Germany, Brazil, Argentina and Spain run their own show. (I know I left out a lot of football powerhouses. I did leave out the Dutch fully aware though )

 

[Zamuz]

It is fine as it is for now. Adding more 10:0 blowout teams would be too much. I also don't see the potential for more teams joining the elite.

maybe that would be the case against big teams, but in the 1 division are multiple teams that can play well against some of the top division teams. We have Ukraine and Belarus there for example, even Hungary can compete pretty well.. oh and lets not forget Slovenia that has been in quarterfinals in the Olympics lately.

 

[Urbanskog]

maybe that would be the case against big teams, but in the 1 division are multiple teams that can play well against some of the top division teams. We have Ukraine and Belarus there for example, even Hungary can compete pretty well.. oh and lets not forget Slovenia that has been in quarterfinals in the Olympics lately.

Ukraine is terrible and Hungary and Slovenia were certainly not impressive at all in this year's 1A. A team that has spent exactly one tournament outside the elite division after 2004 (Belarus) is by no means a Division 1 team, and they were indeed promoted straight back to the elite division.

 

[Albatros]

Two arenas can't take many more games, I think the current number is good for the foreseeable future.

 

[Atas2000]

maybe that would be the case against big teams, but in the 1 division are multiple teams that can play well against some of the top division teams. We have Ukraine and Belarus there for example, even Hungary can compete pretty well.. oh and lets not forget Slovenia that has been in quarterfinals in the Olympics lately.

Then they should play against each other in the 1st division... oh, they already do.

As I said, it's fine as it is.

 

[Namejs]

Ukraine is terrible and Hungary and Slovenia were certainly not impressive at all in this year's 1A. A team that has spent exactly one tournament outside the elite division after 2004 (Belarus) is by no means a Division 1 team, and they were indeed promoted straight back to the elite division.

Belarus is a weird case. They barely got promoted this year instead of Korea who defeated the Belarusians 4-1.

Belarus really reminds me of Slovakia in terms of a sudden slide down the rankings and quality. So I wouldn't say they're by no means a Division 1 team. They barely defeated Lithuania this year.

Latvia and Belarus have been quite similar in quality for decades, but for the first time in about 15 years I can confidently say we're clearly better than them. Their roster sucks. It's filled with KHL scrubs and VHL guys.

They made the play-offs just 4 years ago. Twice in a row. Yet their leading players back then were Kalyuzhny (retired), Andrei Kostitsyn (a shadow of his former self and on his way out of hockey), Sergei Kostitsyn (ditto for Sergei, but he's got a couple of years left in the tank), Gavrus (supposed to be this up and coming young star, but instead of shooting goals he's become a shooting star and has recorded 2 points COMBINED in his last 30 KHL games over 2 seasons).

So they neither have depth, nor some great top-end talent. And I'm pretty sure they're bone dry on goalies or goalie prospects.

They do have a bunch of decent, young, budding junior prospects, but they're based in North America and going through the CHL->ECHL/AHL grind, which takes a few years and only some of the kids will actually become major pro players.

The next few years don't look bright for Belarus and they're really lucky to have that gap year of being able to host the IHWC without worrying about relegation.

Austria, France, Kazakhstan are all in a better state right now.

 

[jonas2244]

Belarus had a very solid U18-tournament this year. But yeah, it's a long way from this age-group to an elite World-Championship.

 

[Urbanskog]

Belarus is a weird case. They barely got promoted this year instead of Korea who defeated the Belarusians 4-1.

Belarus really reminds me of Slovakia in terms of a sudden slide down the rankings and quality. So I wouldn't say they're by no means a Division 1 team. They barely defeated Lithuania this year.

Latvia and Belarus have been quite similar in quality for decades, but for the first time in about 15 years I can confidently say we're clearly better than them. Their roster sucks. It's filled with KHL scrubs and VHL guys.

They made the play-offs just 4 years ago. Twice in a row. Yet their leading players back then were Kalyuzhny (retired), Andrei Kostitsyn (a shadow of his former self and on his way out of hockey), Sergei Kostitsyn (ditto for Sergei, but he's got a couple of years left in the tank), Gavrus (supposed to be this up and coming young star, but instead of shooting goals he's become a shooting star and has recorded 2 points COMBINED in his last 30 KHL games over 2 seasons).

So they neither have depth, nor some great top-end talent. And I'm pretty sure they're bone dry on goalies or goalie prospects.

They do have a bunch of decent, young, budding junior prospects, but they're based in North America and going through the CHL->ECHL/AHL grind, which takes a few years and only some of the kids will actually become major pro players.

The next few years don't look bright for Belarus and they're really lucky to have that gap year of being able to host the IHWC without worrying about relegation.

Austria, France, Kazakhstan are all in a better state right now.

Right, but this Belarusian roster was spectacularly bad as they were missing a number of their best players (I believe that some members on this forum cited locker room issues from last year). Of course, if it's this kind of teams that they will be sending to tournaments from now on, they might certainly end up as an elevator team.

The results of their junior teams have been promising though as their U18 team has managed to retain their position in the elite division for the second year in a row and their U20 team has had two stints in the elite division in recent years.

 

[unknown33]

You can see that in football as well. Iceland is a tiny nation that performs well, Wales, some countries on the Balkan. They got there because their countries presented themselves on a big stage not because they played in some „losers tournament“ because France, England, Germany, Brazil, Argentina and Spain run their own show. (I know I left out a lot of football powerhouses. I did leave out the Dutch fully aware though )

The gap is nothing compared to what we see in Ice Hockey. Wales and the Balkans always had a football culture and produced world class player in the past.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

Cut the teams to only 12. You can clearly see that the bottom 4 are total scrubs who are on a different planet compared to top 6 and can barely score goals versus the next tier of 6's. In order for the right now bottom 4 teams to be able to play in the World Championship A-divison they should have to beat the second tier of 6's in some format before being able to play the big top 6. So a tournament of 12 teams with a best of 3 between the 2 winners of division B and the bottom 2 of division A would be a good way forward for everyone.

 

[mnt]

I am probably alone in my corner when thinking top 8 tournament is most interesting. I know, from a business perspective, no way! But putting the top 8 teams together playing seven games and at the end the team with most points wins.... beauty of simplicity. SUI, GER, LAT, SVK, <add your country> fighting for spots 7 and 8.... delicious. But I am just an old bum.