IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
Water polo is even more expensive. Do you know how expensive it is to teach horses to swim?
Could NHL surpass NBA?
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Water polo is even more expensive. Do you know how expensive it is to teach horses to swim?
Water polo is even more expensive. Do you know how expensive it is to teach horses to swim?
I wouldn’t mind it if the NBA crashed and burned. Basketball isn’t my favorite sport by any means (not that I dislike it though), but the NBA is a pretty crappy league. It would take a lot to fix it.
Maybe… a lockout that costs the league an entire season…
I wouldn’t mind it if the NBA crashed and burned. Basketball isn’t my favorite sport by any means (not that I dislike it though), but the NBA is a pretty crappy league. It would take a lot to fix it.
Maybe… a lockout that costs the league an entire season…
...I used to luv the 80's NBA (being 6'7 and played all my life helps)...the product now is a far cry from that Era...
LOFIN
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2011
- 18,852
- 27,728
Because it doesn't really matter what is the world's second or third most popular spot, on a global scale, only soccer is relevant....what @Summer Rose said was on topic and a valid assessment of the topic...so you just wanted to chirp??...picked the wrong issue then, I'd say...
There could actually be some argument for whether hockey or basketball is more popular. Obviously, if we are talking about just participation, then basketball is the answer. Spectator wise? That's a more difficult question.
...the Topic is could the NHL ever overtake the NBA in popularity...popularity matters in a popularity contest...as unpopular with some as popularity is...
Super Hans
Stats Evangelist
- Oct 9, 2016
- 4,732
- 12,266
It's called becoming a boomer and that's why you like hockey more now. You're past the marketable age and you're likely not to prefer the NBA again unless they start advertising Cash For Gold and term life insurance.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
I’m gonna go against the grain here. I think the NHL has done a pretty good job these past few years of competing with the NBA and improving its overall product.
I agree if we’re talking about the global business, where the NBA has completely overshadowed others with its gains in China, India, and Europe. That competition is a done deal and was probably never a possibility for the NHL.
Domestically, though, the NHL has made some gains in that time period. 25 years ago the NHL was an absolute wreck with poor branding, few stars, fading ratings, and a ton of empty seats. It’s not that the NBA was doing great, but they were entering their post-Jordan era while the NHL was just imploding. At that time the difference in Finals ratings between the two leagues was about 8 ratings points per game. Today, the difference is about 3-4 points. Attendance shows a similar trend with the NHL improving on its dismal situation 25 years ago.
The NHL has made up ground.
Hockey fans are still clinging to a Sports Illustrated cover from that era, but the NHL and NBA were never neck and neck. The situation then was more or less what it is today, minus the NBA’s heavy global advantage, and adding a run of good luck for hockey with the biggest markets having powerhouse teams — Boston, Chicago, LA, NY all making Finals runs in a short period plus Montreal and Vancouver for the Canadian element, Toronto being decent, plus Detroit and Minnesota and Pittsburgh filling in the gaps. There was no Florida/Vegas finals type of situation in that era. But make no mistake, the gap was still LARGE then. Even at the NHL’s peak, it was still drawing less than half the viewers. That puts today’s dynamics in proper context — what we see right now isn’t all that bad.
You can just as easily go to the park and play hockey as football or basketball.
Of course that doesn’t mean a fully organized game of the “real” sport. I don’t know any kid who gets dozens of friends together with a truck full of equipment and plays 11-on-11 tackle football, or a full game of baseball with 9 defenders and a few guys in the bullpen.
What do kids actually do? They play 2-on-2 touch football with goofy routes and no run game. Or they talk while tossing a baseball back and forth until they get bored and wander off. Street hockey is the same way, you get a couple of busted-up sticks and shoot on an empty net. This is 100% as accessible as any other sport.
The part that’s not as accessible is elite competition, but that’s a different subject. If competitive organized participation rates drove business, the NFL would be somewhere below MLS in popularity.
This is really what holds the NHL back. People don’t pay $200 to see NBA basketball, they pay to see LeBron against Wemby. Whereas nobody is paying $200 to see Artemi Panarin, they’re paying to see the New York Rangers.
It’s a completely different business model, and the NBA gets the better of it. Personalities sell rivalry games, Finals matchups, expensive shoes, video games. Your grandma knows who LeBron is, and probably has an opinion on him. Most grandmas have never heard of Connor McDavid.
I don’t know how the NHL solves this. It’s a league full of boring people who don’t want to be seen as individuals, playing a game where you can barely tell who they are due to the speed and equipment. The team is the real product, so if the team stinks there’s nothing left to sell. This afflicts the NHL at the local market level and at the national level.
I agree if we’re talking about the global business, where the NBA has completely overshadowed others with its gains in China, India, and Europe. That competition is a done deal and was probably never a possibility for the NHL.
Domestically, though, the NHL has made some gains in that time period. 25 years ago the NHL was an absolute wreck with poor branding, few stars, fading ratings, and a ton of empty seats. It’s not that the NBA was doing great, but they were entering their post-Jordan era while the NHL was just imploding. At that time the difference in Finals ratings between the two leagues was about 8 ratings points per game. Today, the difference is about 3-4 points. Attendance shows a similar trend with the NHL improving on its dismal situation 25 years ago.
The NHL has made up ground.
Hockey fans are still clinging to a Sports Illustrated cover from that era, but the NHL and NBA were never neck and neck. The situation then was more or less what it is today, minus the NBA’s heavy global advantage, and adding a run of good luck for hockey with the biggest markets having powerhouse teams — Boston, Chicago, LA, NY all making Finals runs in a short period plus Montreal and Vancouver for the Canadian element, Toronto being decent, plus Detroit and Minnesota and Pittsburgh filling in the gaps. There was no Florida/Vegas finals type of situation in that era. But make no mistake, the gap was still LARGE then. Even at the NHL’s peak, it was still drawing less than half the viewers. That puts today’s dynamics in proper context — what we see right now isn’t all that bad.
You can just as easily go to the park and play hockey as football or basketball.
Of course that doesn’t mean a fully organized game of the “real” sport. I don’t know any kid who gets dozens of friends together with a truck full of equipment and plays 11-on-11 tackle football, or a full game of baseball with 9 defenders and a few guys in the bullpen.
What do kids actually do? They play 2-on-2 touch football with goofy routes and no run game. Or they talk while tossing a baseball back and forth until they get bored and wander off. Street hockey is the same way, you get a couple of busted-up sticks and shoot on an empty net. This is 100% as accessible as any other sport.
The part that’s not as accessible is elite competition, but that’s a different subject. If competitive organized participation rates drove business, the NFL would be somewhere below MLS in popularity.
This is really what holds the NHL back. People don’t pay $200 to see NBA basketball, they pay to see LeBron against Wemby. Whereas nobody is paying $200 to see Artemi Panarin, they’re paying to see the New York Rangers.
It’s a completely different business model, and the NBA gets the better of it. Personalities sell rivalry games, Finals matchups, expensive shoes, video games. Your grandma knows who LeBron is, and probably has an opinion on him. Most grandmas have never heard of Connor McDavid.
I don’t know how the NHL solves this. It’s a league full of boring people who don’t want to be seen as individuals, playing a game where you can barely tell who they are due to the speed and equipment. The team is the real product, so if the team stinks there’s nothing left to sell. This afflicts the NHL at the local market level and at the national level.
Surpass? No.
Meaningfully rival? Yes.
The NBA has SO many issues:
Players have too much influence
Players are too soft and lack pride
Refs are just as soft and don't allow basic competition, in the nhl you can get away with punching somebody in a scrum, in the NBA you can't even do basic celebrations or taunts or question anything
Last 2 minutes of the game is basically unwatchable
International scene is awful as it's USA and everybody else
Game is repetitive now, 3 points, free throws, dives repeat
Hockey is just more entertaining, players care more, more passion due to hitting and fighting and guys that don't live up to their contract get crucified for being mediocre, yet you have clowns in the NBA that almost pride themselves on being that soft and "finessing" teams.
It's just a better product and with the USA basically catching up to Canada, it will only be more entertaining going forward to see if they can ever surpass Canada. Politics also adds to this a ton and for better or worse this has generated a ton more interest/animosity both ways.
Meaningfully rival? Yes.
The NBA has SO many issues:
Players have too much influence
Players are too soft and lack pride
Refs are just as soft and don't allow basic competition, in the nhl you can get away with punching somebody in a scrum, in the NBA you can't even do basic celebrations or taunts or question anything
Last 2 minutes of the game is basically unwatchable
International scene is awful as it's USA and everybody else
Game is repetitive now, 3 points, free throws, dives repeat
Hockey is just more entertaining, players care more, more passion due to hitting and fighting and guys that don't live up to their contract get crucified for being mediocre, yet you have clowns in the NBA that almost pride themselves on being that soft and "finessing" teams.
It's just a better product and with the USA basically catching up to Canada, it will only be more entertaining going forward to see if they can ever surpass Canada. Politics also adds to this a ton and for better or worse this has generated a ton more interest/animosity both ways.
Probably not. Basketball is simply easier to play and relevant to the entire US and also the WNBA is likely set to boom due to Caitlyn Clark which means you're probably going to get a wave of young girls getting into basketball that way and then they would likely have interest in the NBA too at some point if they like basketball.
Even in Canada, basketball is increasing in popularity fast, drive through basically any suburban Canadian neighborhood in any city and every 3rd or 4th house has a basketball hoop in the driveway. Canada can actually field a really good basketball team now (SGA is an MVP candidate, Murray, Wiggins, etc.).
Even in Canada, basketball is increasing in popularity fast, drive through basically any suburban Canadian neighborhood in any city and every 3rd or 4th house has a basketball hoop in the driveway. Canada can actually field a really good basketball team now (SGA is an MVP candidate, Murray, Wiggins, etc.).
No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
I wouldn’t mind it if the NBA crashed and burned. Basketball isn’t my favorite sport by any means (not that I dislike it though), but the NBA is a pretty crappy league. It would take a lot to fix it.
Maybe… a lockout that costs the league an entire season…
NHL's master plan to surpass the NBA:
koyvoo
Registered User
- Nov 8, 2014
- 17,833
- 17,963
Doesn’t seem to have an impact on Hollywood
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the valiant effort
settle down, bud
- Apr 17, 2017
- 5,791
- 7,295
The NBA product might be in a weird place, but I don’t know why people assume it will stay there. Is the NHL still stuck in 1999 from an on-ice perspective?
Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
- 28,419
- 15,195
If you like 3 point shots, then NBA is for you, but it’s not a good product, was much better decades ago.
Just tune in with 2 minutes left in game, if you want to kill 25 minutes.
Just tune in with 2 minutes left in game, if you want to kill 25 minutes.
Also, as some would also say, that for team sports, harder to want to follow something you haven't played. People at worst can play pick up basketball at their local gym. Or did it in High School.
- Nov 12, 2021
- 10,465
- 9,411
a mangy Meowth
Registered Meowth
Not anytime soon.
I wonder if people realize how huge the NBA's TV deal is that is about to go into effect soon
I wonder if people realize how huge the NBA's TV deal is that is about to go into effect soon
GMR
Registered User
Is hockey as popular in Canada as it was 20 years ago?
My understanding is the expenses involved have increased exponentially for parents. Hockey was always more expensive to begin with because of all the equipment. Also, there's more immigrants coming to Canada from countries that don't have a hockey culture.
As far as the U.S., there's too many other sports that are already more popular than hockey here. Soccer continues to grow and with the World Cup coming next year, that will only increase. Football, basketball, and baseball are played in every high school in America. Hockey is only played in certain parts of the country in the North and East. Most American children don't know how to ice skate.
It's hard to grow a sport that few people in the country have ever played.
My understanding is the expenses involved have increased exponentially for parents. Hockey was always more expensive to begin with because of all the equipment. Also, there's more immigrants coming to Canada from countries that don't have a hockey culture.
As far as the U.S., there's too many other sports that are already more popular than hockey here. Soccer continues to grow and with the World Cup coming next year, that will only increase. Football, basketball, and baseball are played in every high school in America. Hockey is only played in certain parts of the country in the North and East. Most American children don't know how to ice skate.
It's hard to grow a sport that few people in the country have ever played.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
I just don’t buy that. Only a small fraction of the population has played organized American football, and yet it’s been by far and away the most dominant entertainment product on the continent for generations. Including in Mexico where it’s grown to become the second most popular entertainment sport despite barely even existing on the participating level.
For that matter, how many people in the stands at an NHL game have actually played organized hockey? The great majority of them have hockey experience along the lines of “plastic sticks in 8th grade gym class”, yet they show up paying hundreds to see a game.
Bruce Granville
Registered User
- Oct 11, 2014
- 6,129
- 4,897
No, I don‘t think so.
Although scoring in the NHL is up atm, I think the scoring will be higher in the NBA for the foreseeable future.
Although scoring in the NHL is up atm, I think the scoring will be higher in the NBA for the foreseeable future.
I mean a lot of Americans do play pick up/flag football growing up and playing with the family on Thanksgiving etc. etc. And quite a few people do play at a junior high or high school level too.
A lot of Canadians at least used to grow up playing street hockey, pond hockey, floor hockey at some point.
