OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Part IV - II
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,767
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Dry active yeast. My friends have turned their Instagrams into sourdough porn but I'm not there yet. Baby steps.
This is not about profit. Contrary to popular belief some people rent as their source of income.
Because the mortgages were insured by Fannie and Freddie. The banks had no skin in the game which was one of the problems. The ones that weren’t were so far underwater that the owners simply mailed the keys to the banks (jingle mail). So the banks had a lot of property on their books but no mortgages.
Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
Yeah, I’m not advocating for that. In my opinion, too big to fail is just bullshit though. The bankers weren’t punished for their bad decisions but the misinformed (ok, dumb) plebes who took out the loans were.
Probably not a popular opinion here, but the moment investing becomes more than “hey, I believe in that company so I want to give them some money to keep doing great things”, it goes off the rails. My engineering school offered a Masters in Financial Engineering. That shouldn’t be a thing.
eco's bones
Registered User
The problem with this is if the virus is still seriously ongoing it's not going to work. If there's a vaccine--maybe someone could enter the arena with a certificate of vaccination. But really there will need to be some certainty of health for all those attending.
UnSandvich
Registered User
- Sep 7, 2017
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Oh, I don't necessarily disagree. I'm just putting that here b/c nobody else had, at least that I'd seen.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
Of all the cameos in that movie, you pick... Bordain... to highlight?
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
Another option (not necessarily mutually exclusive from what you're proposing) is to differentiate between individual landlords who own a small number of units (say up to 3, maybe 5) and larger, institutional landlords.
GunkWinger
Registered User
You have brought up some very good points during this discussion.
I guess the ultimate problem is that there is no solution that is going to be perfect. People who make their primary income off rentals wouldn't be any different than the position my company is in selling services to the hotel industry. Hotels are getting hammered obviously so they aren't paying for our services and we just have to accept that we really wont be making income these next couple months. The PPP is obviously going to help (just like the mortgage relief will help those people) but we won't be making any other income.
So why would that industry get an extra cut over any of the other revenue sources that will be dried up this next couple months? We are all really just gonna have to live off the combo of extra unemployment benefits, PPP, mortgage relief, and the stimulus for the next 1-2 months.
Really, as I think everyone is aware, there is just no easy solution and no matter what we do there is going to be some people that get screwed over any way unfortunately.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
@True Blue by no means am I suggesting any of this as anything more than a temporary, emergency measure. Believe me, I'm not; my parents are among the population you name: they pay 70-80% of their day-to-day bills by renting two units (one of which is empty as of this moment).
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Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Of all the cameos in that movie, you pick... Bordain... to highlight?
Okay. You have a point. I’m a massive foodie and wannabe chef so... naturally that is where my mind goes.
I suppose I should have started with Margot Robbie lol.
Jaromir Jagr
Registered User
I don't know why it's 'contrary to popular belief,' as I think most people are aware of this.
There is a simple solution that has been employed in Europe and we should mimic (we won't, obviously, but we should). Any company that has to be shutdown based upon government mandates, the government pays 80-90% of employees salary, as long as the company doesn't make a single layoff, for the duration of the shutdown.
Yes, this would be expensive (although I'm not sure how much more than the 6 trillion that the prior bill is being estimated at once all is said and done). But the fact is, we are in unchartered territory here and basically already playing with monopoly money.
Based on this method, you would be paying people to stay home. You would ensure that they remain insured. You would ensure that all bills get paid. No need for rent forgiveness in this scenario. And this also makes it possible to 'flip a switch' and turn back on the economy when the time comes (whether that's 2-4-6-8 months from now).
The only legitimate arguments against this are that it will cause exorbitant inflation. However, we have been running massive deficits and that has never come to pass, so I'm skeptical that would happen. Still, even if it were, we can worry about monetary and fiscal policy down the line to curb any aftereffects. Right now, we have to get through this with as little economic harm as possible and have the capability of getting things back up as fast as possible.
If this isn't done, which it won't be, we are in for a depression. 10 million people are 'officially' unemployed in the past two weeks alone. That number is certainly higher. $1200 checks will do nothing. We are potentially looking at 25-30% unemployment. In a system that ties your health insurance to your employer, this will only further exacerbate the health crisis.
If we have 25-30% unemployment, it doesn't matter what the government determines around rent payments, people simply will not pay it, because they can't. And will people have the ability to kick them out with the threat of getting infected....color me doubtful.
Moreover, if we have that high of a number unemployed, we are seriously risking some kind of violent revolution. While Jamie Dimon and co hop on their private jets to their massive towers, hidden far away from any threat of this virus, regular people will be unable to afford even basic necessities.
Landlords who get relief from their mortgages should offer the same relief too their tenants.
eco's bones
Registered User
Yeah I know. I'm just skeptical right now about hockey coming anytime soon. I think this month is going to be sobering. I fear it's going to be like a bomb going off practically every day. 9-11 was one thing and then the banking collapse was another. This is the most devastating event to this country in my 62 years. This is going to be closer to Pearl Harbor than either 9-11 or the bank meltdown. If you look at the death count still coming out of Italy and Spain that have a similar case count to New York--it's like 7,8,900 a day still. New Jersey is also really putting up horrific numbers right now. 630 died in NY today--200 in New Jersey. This area is getting crushed.
NYSPORTS
back afta dis. . .
- Jun 17, 2019
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IMO, it’s a pipe dream. Without a vaccine a slowdown can turn into an outbreak soon after a sporting event with so many people.
Not to hyperbole this yet with a league like the NHL, you hope teams with very low operating income can make it. We’re really hoping for a vaccine to be discovered by Sept/Oct yet it’s not out of the question to be sitting here in a year without one. Can you imagine?
can’t rely on summer heat to give a sense of security for what could be a bomb of a return come autumn. Dr a Fauci keeps repeating this
NYSPORTS
back afta dis. . .
- Jun 17, 2019
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it’a going to be so tough to judge which landlords get relief. I doubt many, if any, do.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
If I see one more Facebook post or tweet about how COVID-19 isn't really the culprit and that this is all because of 5G... I think I'm going to have a stroke.
What do you mean? Building owners typically have mortgages and the ones who get mortgage relief won’t be a secret.
There are ways to do it, but my point is that it is not as simple as standing up and saying "suspend mortgage payments and rent payments". That requires being a part of an overall stimulus that will compensate those that collect rent. Suspending a persons income because you want to subsidize another person's income is a non-tenable situation.
Who cares about what plane Jamie Dimon hops on? He has earned it and let him.
What you are suggesting is effectively nationalizing the issue. Socialism. It is highly debateable of how well that system has worked in Europe. Am just going to leave it at that.
17futurecap
Registered User
Hoboken made it mandatory that all essential business workers must wear a form of a face covering, and any customer entering an essential business will also need a face covering, wonder if any other cities around here implement the same.
eco's bones
Registered User
You can't put people in a situation where they're really at risk. You really wouldn't want to risk it with players either. Could you imagine if Connor McDavid got really sick? The other part of it is what New York is going through now St. Louis might be going through in late August--so then no team wants to even get close to Missouri for two and a half/three months. You wouldn't have teams coming into New York, New Jersey or Detroit right now and you'd have to be pretty wary of Tampa or Miami because Florida has been lax. There's the potential for all these pop up nightmare scenarios that would have to be rescheduled around. Also the potential for fans suing teams if they could show going to a game is how they contracted the disease or why some loved one died.
The responsible thing is going to be wait for the all clear--which is pretty dependent on a vaccine and showing up for a game is going to require a ticket and a certification of vaccination.
But there is of course a really big problem when a certain group of tremendously wealthy people have pumped money into actions that intends to convince the general public to not prepare for these type of things, to not build up safety nets, to not provide even the most fundamental healthcare to everyone -- and then (a) they do the exact opposite privately, and (b) the message given to the public to convey people to change their public opinion is intentionally misleading.
Then that side will argue, but the other side is also doing the same thing. Well there you go. And they are. Its a problem in all societies, not just the USA. Hopefully decency and common sense will prevail, its up to all of us to try to make a difference in all ways we can, and quite frankly we have done a pretty crappy job and elected pure puppeteers for many crucial positions and in spite often chosen people that will piss the other side of. Should we be surprised when a top leader all of a sudden tweets something like "dang people with mild to no symptoms can spread this virus" a few days ago? No.
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