OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Part IV - II

[OverTheCap]

Gonna wait till I hear from Sally Jesse Raphael

"Very appetizing opportunity" Did Dr. Oz just out himself as a cannibal?

 

[Leonardo87]

 

[Thirty One]

"Very appetizing opportunity" Did Dr. Oz just out himself as a cannibal?

It's 2020. There's no stigma anymore.

 

[Fireonk]

But can’t a bunch of those workers that commute to Manhattan work from home?

There is a bunch of things you can do. Just issue guidelines and recommend companies to instruct all workers who can perform their work from home to do so. In today’s PC society most would comply. And which office worker can’t just as well work from home efficiently today?

Put up guards and only allow 50% capacity in the subway. Whatever.

Sweden isn’t closed at all, they have only banned public gatherings of more than 50 people. Granted Stockholm is not Manhattan 2 in any way or form, but in terms of crowdedness the soft guidelines recommending people to work from home and to avoid unnecessary trips, as well as that everyone with any kind of flu symptoms must stay at home, has easily reduced the crowdedness with like 75%.

Sure, you can mitigate some stuff. Working from home for everyone who can is certainly going to be a big thing for a while. But that isn't changing that much since the people who can work from home already are.

But again, we are talking about 10k+ new cases a day in New York (state not just city to be fair.) Sweden as a whole had 482 new cases yesterday in total. 613 today. I know new cases is also based on how many test you are pumping out but you are still talking about a much bigger scale. For the places in the States that are putting up numbers like Sweden currently is I am for them starting a phased re-opening as long as they feel comfortable with their current medical capacity.

 

[Metranger]

Gonna wait till I hear from Sally Jesse Raphael

Wasn't it the Lancet that published then retracted a study that incorrectly damned vaccines as a cause of autism?

 

[UnSandvich]

Wasn't it the Lancet that published then retracted a study that incorrectly damned vaccines as a cause of autism?

It was, however, per wikipedia:
"In February 2004, The Lancet published a statement by 10 of the paper's 13 coauthors repudiating the possibility that MMR could cause autism. The editor-in-chief, Richard Horton, went on the record to say the paper had "fatal conflicts of interest" because the study's lead author, Andrew Wakefield, had a serious conflict of interest that he had not declared to The Lancet. The journal completely retracted the paper on 2 February 2010, after Wakefield was found to have acted unethically in conducting the research."

 

[Ola]

Gonna wait till I hear from Sally Jesse Raphael

Bad choice of words, but I have to say that I think the level of this public debate is kind of low.

Shutting down the schools has many very negative effects.

1. Far too many kids suffers a lot these days. Studies from France for example show that domestic abuse went up a lot during the quarantine. For many it was intolerable before that. For these kids, the school is a safe heaven. Home education? Parents being the tutors for their kids? Boy howdy, how many percent of the parents does that apply to? The worst of kids will fall further behind.

2. Opening up the schools frees a lot of critical workers from being forced to be at home taking care of their kids.

3. From a health perspective, quarantine is of course a disaster for kids. Obesity, mental health, it’s not good at all.

4. Everything points that whole asymptomatic persons can pass on the virus, they will not even remotely do it to the same extent as someone with severe symptoms. It’s just a quantity thing. The more ill you are, the more virus you will have. The more virus you have in you, the more you will spread when you cough — and so forth

It’s very rare for kids to fall severely ill from Covid, and it’s even easier to make sure that those that do stay at home with any kind of symptoms. It’s the opposite of a normal flu when many adults have immunity and the kids don’t and get sick like hell. Kids will not have a big impact.

I reacted to the wording used in that tweet too. But shutting something like schools down has largely been overreactions by the politicians from what I can tell. NYC, regions in Spain and Italy and certainly be exceptions to that rule.

But doing it in states that only have a few cases? That just seem like a huuuge blunder by weak politicians.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Bad choice of words, but I have to say that I think the level of this public debate is kind of low.

Shutting down the schools has many very negative effects.

1. Far too many kids suffers a lot these days. Studies from France for example show that domestic abuse went up a lot during the quarantine. For many it was intolerable before that. For these kids, the school is a safe heaven. Home education? Parents being the tutors for their kids? Boy howdy, how many percent of the parents does that apply to? The worst of kids will fall further behind.
.

read the odds on child abuse skyrocketing is off the charts awful.

 

[LORDE]

This is why he ad libs... he can’t READ.

He is nearly illiterate

 

[Tawnos]

View attachment 342155

Sure, if the entirety of your musical knowledge exists between 1980 and 1996.

 

[eco's bones]

I think we have a miss-communication. You're speaking specifically of NYC/S. I am not. I'm speaking of the thousands of other cities/towns throughout the US that don't have this same issue getting back on their feet faster

Well okay---I will say in that regard that I think there is something to the strategy of governors in the Northeast and also I've heard in the midwest banding together and coordinating how they will exactly go about doing that---kind of in a more regional way. I think it would be an issue for instance if Pennsylvania or Connecticut opened things all the way up before New York state was ready---that it needs to be coordinated how they go about doing that. For one thing there's people travelling between states that are in close proximity. One state going 'f*** it, we're just going to do it when the others don't think they're ready or nearly as ready.

I think it's a sounder strategy to work together on this--to ease up on the brake--let some things happen--see how it goes and if it works move on to the next step. I don't think this is exactly what the POTUS has in mind but IMO rushing it too quickly has a very good chance of putting us back in the bad place where we were. When the time is right and all the states are ready a controlled return is the way I think is best.

This being a hockey forum I think things like MLB, NFL, NHL and NBA are about the last things that will come back or at least as far as fans attending. Sorry to say that but you can't have people right on top of each other. Another issue would be a player getting sick and it passing throughout a team.

 

[eco's bones]

That's exactly what is happening right now at the levels where decisions are being made. Worried about the short term, and not the long term

Can't imagine why they'd be worried about the short term....

I think Gov. Cuomo has extended the shutdown in NY to the middle of May. He also wants a coordinated and controlled return. The coordination is with other states. I think we have to be on top of the situation before than even happens and if it looks like it's going to fast then we'll need to hit brake. Lives are the most important thing.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I think your scenario is the end of the country. If Apple does not need a brick and mortar store, then what retail does? The adaption, as you have described it, is all well and good, but it also carries with it a 35-50% unemployment factor. Try swallowing that one. And that unemployment has no chance at future employment. Add on to it an entire generation growing up with depression and obesity. I think that there are somethings that are very, very easy to say when one is receiving a paycheck. Or one does not have a 3 year old that is not smiling anymore.

Yes, I do believe that there are people that will never come out of their house again. There are people that will never shake hands again. There are people who will only have their kids home schooled. There are those that will only come out when there is a vaccine that works, which will not be in 2020. But there are those that would run out of the house and lick telephone poles. There are many, many risks to driving a car. But yet most people have decided that the positives outweigh the risks. 60 thousand deaths against 25-35 million unemployed? People have to decide what they want and do not want. And what is worth a risk.

well said. this harsh reality is beginning top get some reaction.

the entire scope of damage from this pandemic goes way beyond the number of sick and dead.

the unintended consequences are going to be quite punitive.

things wont be the same.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I think Gov. Cuomo has extended the shutdown in NY to the middle of May. He also wants a coordinated and controlled return. The coordination is with other states. I think we have to be on top of the situation before than even happens and if it looks like it's going to fast then we'll need to hit brake. Lives are the most important thing.

as a fellow upstater, you and i both know the vast difference between nyc and us.you cannot treat upstate the same as nyc. we are not nyc.

i dont want us to have to pay a price for nyc. here in Cuse, in Onondaga county, we have had 12 deaths. the curve has flattened. we are all on top of things here. all lives matter i agree, but so do jobs, careers, families and paying the bills.

im afraid of the permanent economic damage being done. businesses wont reopen. people will be out of jobs. it will effect my business and all my clients will struggle. this isnt good.

sadly, there needs to be a separate set of rules for nyc. its gonna be awhile before they come back- if they ever do.

 

[Barnaby]

Good point made in regard to a “coordinated” response. The governor of New Hampshire said in regards to reopening beaches - but could go for a lot of things - you have to take into account surrounding states. For example, New Hampshire reopens beaches might normally be fine - but if Massachusetts, NJ, Maine etc... are still closed then they’d get bombarded.

Things need to start reopening soon - especially in lower risk areas (obviously NY / NJ would be longer term) but the important thing is to have Feds/State Governors really working together to best coordinate this.

 

[eco's bones]

as a fellow upstater, you and i both know the vast difference between nyc and us.you cannot treat upstate the same as nyc. we are not nyc.

i dont want us to have to pay a price for nyc. here in Cuse, in Onondaga county, we have had 12 deaths. the curve has flattened. we are all on top of things here. all lives matter i agree, but so do jobs, careers, families and paying the bills.

im afraid of the permanent economic damage being done. businesses wont reopen. people will be out of jobs. it will effect my business and all my clients will struggle. this isnt good.

sadly, there needs to be a separate set of rules for nyc. its gonna be awhile before they come back- if they ever do.

Yours is one way to look at it. My dad was a WWII and Korean war Marine. A very conservative guy (and I'm not really) but the Marines never left dead or captured bodies behind. Their idea was always to bring everybody out whatever the cost. I think it's a good mentality. My mom died a couple years ago. She was 95--her last year spent mostly in an assisted living home. I'd visit her 5 or 6 times a week. I'd take one or both weekend days off. Monday through Friday always there. I'd visit her before lunch and walk her down to the dining area and occasionally I'd stay and eat lunch with her. I don't like this idea that the elderly are expendable. She wasn't expendable to me and there are people now who are in the same shoes I was then so I respect that and I respect what's going on in these hospitals. I would be embarrassed to show up in an overloaded emergency room and add to their load--have them trying to save my life meanwhile they have to worry about catching contagion from me. So that's another way to look at it.

IMO this bailout of the air and cruiselines should have been money headed towards smaller business. Or we could have done something like Denmark is doing--protecting businesses and jobs for the day after. The plan could have been a lot better. The other thing is Upstate NY might start up before NYC--Cuomo kind of hinted at that possibility too. We'll see. It still needs to be a coordinated and controlled plan and done in a regional way.

 

[JimmyG89]

Maybe we'll get real numbers from Wuhan in another month or two, but these are not nearly correct either. An improvement, but just shows they suppressed the info the entire time.

 

[GoAwayGiannone]

Very happy to see all the tax breaks and handouts the uber-wealthy are receiving with the relief bill that otherwise could've gone to small businesses and low income families in need.
We need mail in voting yesterday.

 

[Ola]

(Very) Promising results leaking about the use of remdesivir against Covid-19 with the stock market surging all over the globe as a result.

Gilead stock pops 16% after report says coronavirus drug trial shows encouraging early results

Could be a game changer like Donny boy usually says...

Anyone know where I can get a Trump 2020 t-shirt?

 

[sbjnyc]

Maybe we'll get real numbers from Wuhan in another month or two, but these are not nearly correct either. An improvement, but just shows they suppressed the info the entire time.

NYS significantly revised their death toll a few days ago. Maybe China surpressed numbers but they probably had a hard time counting as well.

 

[Barnaby]

I think Gov. Cuomo has extended the shutdown in NY to the middle of May. He also wants a coordinated and controlled return. The coordination is with other states. I think we have to be on top of the situation before than even happens and if it looks like it's going to fast then we'll need to hit brake. Lives are the most important thing.

They certainly are, but I think it's also important to keep in mind that there are other ways lives can be ended/destroyed. There are places in the US that can probably be opened now, or very soon. Those areas aren't NY or NJ. We do have to keep in mind that the number infected isn't going to hit zero before this economy gets opened back up though. I'm glad to see the coordination of Governors and the Federal government, and I'm hoping this recedes as soon as possible.

 

[Barnaby]

NYS significantly revised their death toll a few days ago. Maybe China surpressed numbers but they probably had a hard time counting as well.

When all is said and done, I think China is going to come out of this thing looking a lot worse than they did going into it. I think we'll see that they hid this information for a lot longer than we thought and fudged these numbers more than we think. I've also seen a few articles that report China initially stopped domestic travel to/from Wuhan when they realized this thing was serious, but still allowed international travel. That would be an atrocity that they tried to cover it up and allowed the disease to spread like wildfire because they wanted to save face and/or didn't want to be the only ones debilitated by this. If that ends up being the case, then I hope people take it seriously. I know that if we found out that this administration did the same then people would be walking into DC with pitchforks and torches. I get as aggravated as anyone at times with our media, but sometimes we forget the freedoms that we have. They don't get away with investigative reporting in China.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

NYS significantly revised their death toll a few days ago. Maybe China surpressed numbers but they probably had a hard time counting as well.

That's because they basically are just counting every death as a COVID death under an assumption, even though they were never tested for it. Skews the results in whichever way they want.

 

[eco's bones]

They certainly are, but I think it's also important to keep in mind that there are other ways lives can be ended/destroyed. There are places in the US that can probably be opened now, or very soon. Those areas aren't NY or NJ. We do have to keep in mind that the number infected isn't going to hit zero before this economy gets opened back up though. I'm glad to see the coordination of Governors and the Federal government, and I'm hoping this recedes as soon as possible.

Right now? Probably not. By May 1--maybe some but probably not the main ones that are the real economic engines but there are some states not hit all that hard. They tend to be rural states though--which is good in the sense that they are more farm production. There are a couple states I really don't trust their numbers--specifically Georgia and Florida. By the numbers both of them are fairly hard hit but my suspicions are that both are a lot worse than the information coming from them. I see both those states rushing to open up though too and being potential problems for the states around them.

 

[Off Sides]

2 trials, newer one listed first.

Gilead data suggests coronavirus patients are responding to treatment

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2007016?query=featured_home