OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Part IV - II

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Is there any reason why we can't make it a stipulation that if you are getting mortgage relief then you can't turn around and charge rent for those properties for that same time?

I think this is a practical solution. Just suspending all rent and mortgage payments as AOC suggested is wildly impractical to put it politely.

But if you are receiving mortgage relief as a landlord of a single unit or, as the landlord of a large scale complex, I think the stipulation of you cannot charge rent is completely reasonable.
 
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that money was used to fund net new loans. Those headed for default was a loss that couldn’t be recouped or saved.

The real estate crash wasn’t like a bank sold a loan at a fair market value, kept the loan and used the bailout money to maintain the loan/owner. Instead, the bank offered a loan in an artificially inflated market to owners who couldn’t afford the load in the first place, then sold the loan off many times until the bank which was holding the paper recognized the loan was worthless.

A $400K house was being sold for $600K while the person who bought the house could only afford a $150K house. Meanwhile, the $600K note (loan/mortgage) was now attached to a house which crashed to $300K. As banks continued to sell then loans, they packaged it as if the house would continue to increase in value and somehow people would be able to afford them. So that $600K note was packaged as if the house would increase to $700K whereas is was crashing below (what should have been) the FMV of $400K. Hence, the money on paper was only air. It was unfixable. Now multiply that scenario by millions.

The bailout money was for net new business b/c there was nothing left.

Deregulating the banks was a big part of the issue here. Back when I bought my house in the 80's if you made $50K a year you weren't allowed to buy a house that was more than $100K. There was like a $1 to $2 formula. So an individual who could only afford a $150K was making $75K and he/she weren't buying a $600K house back in the 80's. I never looked at my house really as an investment to make more money on--I've always looked at it as my home. Deregulating the banking industry opened it up to all kinds of speculators and voodoo economics bullshitters.
 
I've heard from people I know in NYPD and FDNY they are responding to an insanely high amount of DOA's. Often it's an older person who was showing all the symptoms but either didn't seek treatment or did go to the hospital but was turned away (untested) because the symptoms weren't severe enough. Even the death numbers we're getting are likely not catching a lot of these.

that's horrifying.
 
Deregulating the banks was a big part of the issue here. Back when I bought my house in the 80's if you made $50K a year you weren't allowed to buy a house that was more than $100K. There was like a $1 to $2 formula. So an individual who could only afford a $150K was making $75K and he/she weren't buying a $600K house back in the 80's. I never looked at my house really as an investment to make more money on--I've always looked at it as my home. Deregulating the banking industry opened it up to all kinds of speculators and voodoo economics bullshitters.

+1 - agree. They weren’t even checking income/dept ratios. Literally no background check.
 
I've heard from people I know in NYPD and FDNY they are responding to an insanely high amount of DOA's. Often it's an older person who was showing all the symptoms but either didn't seek treatment or did go to the hospital but was turned away (untested) because the symptoms weren't severe enough. Even the death numbers we're getting are likely not catching a lot of these.

the number of total cases and the number of deaths caused by it are hugely off due to the lack of testing. I doubt the deaths you are talking about are being counted cause they don't have the time or resources to prove it in an autopsy. and on the flip side all the people with mild symptoms being told to just stay home and not get tested aren't part of the total number of infections and recoveries.
 
+1 - agree. They weren’t even checking income/dept ratios. Literally no background check.

No income, no asset check applications. Even when the home owner did truthfully declare their actual income, loan officers and higher ups mysteriously approved applications with declared incomes with recorded (edited) higher values.
 
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I think this is a practical solution. Just suspending all rent and mortgage payments as AOC suggested is wildly impractical to put it politely.

But if you are receiving mortgage relief as a landlord of a single unit or, as the landlord of a large scale complex, I think the stipulation of you cannot charge rent is completely reasonable.

it’s complex on the back end. Now every note with end date gets pushed back. And who knows when people get back to normalcy. Even if we get a vaccine, it’s not like we can all run out and get it. Maybe more in the Northeast or Southwest get vaccinated and back to work earlier. We are literally making this up as we go along b/c have never faced anything like this.

Meanwhile, if you live in the NE and own property you are renting FLA it’s complex. The tenant can’t afford the rent yet owner can. Who gets relief?
 
I think this is a practical solution. Just suspending all rent and mortgage payments as AOC suggested is wildly impractical to put it politely.

But if you are receiving mortgage relief as a landlord of a single unit or, as the landlord of a large scale complex, I think the stipulation of you cannot charge rent is completely reasonable.

While giving renters the same deal that mortgage holders are getting is a start, what landlords are now crowing about in opposition to renter relief is their fixed costs, like building upkeep and property taxes.

A compromise may be a temporary, provisional pass-thru of those costs to the tenants coupled with rent suspension/abatement. I don't think the tenants should pay 100% of these amounts, as I don't think any industry is guaranteed a profit, landlords especially.

~67.4% of housing in NYC is rented, and this will need to be addressed ASAP. Much like some homeowners who complained at proposed assistance programs in 2008, landlords will soon realize without assistance, building prices and associated available renting pool will be severely damaged for a long while without coming to a compromise solution.
 
While giving renters the same deal that mortgage holders are getting is a start, what landlords are now crowing about in opposition to renter relief is their fixed costs, like building upkeep and property taxes.

A compromise may be a temporary, provisional pass-thru of those costs to the tenants coupled with rent suspension/abatement. I don't think the tenants should pay 100% of these amounts, as I don't think any industry is guaranteed a profit, landlords especially.

~67.4% of housing in NYC is rented, and this will need to be addressed ASAP. Much like some homeowners who complained at proposed assistance programs in 2008, landlords will soon realize without assistance, building prices and associated available renting pool will be severely damaged for a long while without coming to a compromise solution.

Which I think is fair on the part of the landlord. Those things don’t just go away. So maybe put in a cap that landlords are still allowed to charge 10 - 15% of normal rent in order to be able to pay for those costs.
 
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IDK what the answer is. I have multiple rental properties and if my tenants can’t pay the rent I doubt I get relief.
 
My wife has Covid-19. 30 years old, completely healthy 5'3 130lb woman.

My wife is a healthcare worker in a hospital on LI. She's been doing exams on patients, direct contact in their rooms, who were confirmed Covid patients. Always with PPE, but obviously due to shortages they were being required to reuse N-95 more than previously. Not taking any chances, wearing hospital scrubs while on duty and changing before leaving, wearing different shoes, etc.

So two Sundays ago (the 22nd) she said she did an exam on a confirmed Covid-19 positive patient and was all covered in her PPE but as she was wiping her machine down with a bleach wipe before leaving the patient's room, she could smell bleach even with the mask on. This worried her because you're not supposed to be able to smell anything so it was pretty obvious her mask failed. So that night she came home and stripped down and got right in the shower.

That Thursday she felt a cold coming on. Friday she was not feeling well so she called out not wanting to take any chances, employee health sent her to get tested and she got it done right away that Friday and we quarantined until results (I'm already working from home so the only thing that changed was she wasn't going to work anymore lol) came. Sat - Tues. Same symptoms: head cold, fatigue and just overall not feeling well. NO fever, tiny little bit of coughing but more along the lines of allergies than an actual cough. So we assumed she had a cold.

Wednesday morning (5 days post Covid test) she gets a call that she is positive. She starts freaking and I'm trying not to freak. Thursday she was so fatigued and tired she could barely get up. Today she felt a little better in the morning but then was just as fatigued and said her whole body hurt and when she showered felt like she would pass out. Also talking about feeling dizzy and head not feeling clear and slight chest pain, though idk if that's anxiety fueled. Luckily we have a Pulse Oximeter to keep an eye on her SpO2 levels, should be 98-99 when healthy, that's what mine is hers is 96-97 and a low heart rate, not sure what to make of that.

We are 8 days since her becoming symptomatic and her getting a test test, so at least 8 days in to it. She has still yet to have a fever at all, highest her temp has gotten is 99.6 (so low grade fever, but not actual spiked fever like most have). A slight cough throughout the day, but not big hacking and heavy cough - more just like a lingering tickle in her throat type. I really hope she starts to feel better soon but it seems like it's been getting worse every day. I really hope she doesn't start to develop respiratory symptoms.

Then there's the anxiety about me. We're in a 1br apartment so even trying to be careful and wash my hands 85 times a day, keep relative distance it's still hard because there's not really anywhere for either of us to go. I haven't had any symptoms yet but the people when they called with the test results said I'm presumed positive bc she is but there's no way of knowing. Am I a lucky one who is asymptomatic? Am I going to start getting sick too? No way to know but it's pretty tough to deal with. Most importantly I need her to start turning a corner while hoping it stays a relatively mild case.

Hopefully this is the full extent of her symptoms and it won’t get any worse. She should be turning for the better really soon though fatigue will linger for awhile based on what I heard first hand.
 
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The thing is that especially now and for at least as long as this virus is really going you don't want to add to the number of people without a place to live--so if this goes on into the summer Cuomo should be open to extending his ban on evictions. It helps to keep extra people off the street.
 
I think it is still on Netflix. Not only is it a phenomenal movie, it has an amazing cast. Gosling, Pitt, Carrell, Bale. Cool cameo by Anthony Bourdain.

Spectrum in our area is giving everyone free Showtime. My wife has been bingewatching Homeland and something else about this guy who is a one man protection racket for Hollywood stars and NFL football players or at least that seems to be the gist to me. Today though I've been watching the Rangers against Montreal in the '14 playoffs. Kreider just ran over Price for the 1000th time. Good stuff.

The other show she's watching is Ray Donovan.
 
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The same way suspending mortgages works. We've done that.
Sure, but that is a VERY short term solution. VERY. You cannot simply take over private businesses and then proceed to put them out of business. Sorry, not cold hearted, but that is not the way it works. It CAN be done, but only if the people and businesses to whom you pay rent or mortgage to get compensated. And when they do, it will come with an interest rate.
 
but its a valid point, doing it for rent would be alot more complicated because lots of people renting are paying rent to individuals. mortgages are thru banks so its alot easier to work with the major banks and get them to put a freeze on all of their mortgages then to work with each individual landlords...it absolutely can be done, but it would be more complicated to work out the details.
But even that has ramifications. There are divisions at the big banks that deal with mortgages. Suspend that business and you put more people out of work. Because if there are no rents or mortgages to work with, then why is the entire division that is devoted to it being employed?

The sole way that this can work is if a part of the governmental bailout is to reimburse the ultimate collateral holders. With a lot of interest.
 
Something I continue to fail to grasp since the 2008 bailout is why didn’t the funds that were directed to the banks go straight to paying the mortgages that were defaulting. Banks get their money and the people get some relief. Where did the money go?
The answer is that the government is not about to take over paying people's mortgages or rent. Think of what you are creating. If there is a dedicated fund to pay people's obligations, how many people would rather not go to a minimal paying job and still have their mortgage paid for?
 
I think this is a practical solution. Just suspending all rent and mortgage payments as AOC suggested is wildly impractical to put it politely.

But if you are receiving mortgage relief as a landlord of a single unit or, as the landlord of a large scale complex, I think the stipulation of you cannot charge rent is completely reasonable.
But everything comes with a price. People don't want to hear it, but the landlord is going to more than likely have to get compensated for it. There are people that depend on the cash that they collect. So yes, that can happen. But with some sort of incentive to the landlord. Now, of course it can be a part of the stimulus package. But again, it would not be a dollar for dollar thing. The payee eventually needs to be incentivized for such an action.
 
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I’m sure almost everyone has seen it but if you haven’t, the big short does such an amazing job of giving some perspective of the scumbaggery that took place.
You are correct, but the publicized versions blew things way out of proportion to sensationalize. But those DB guys were something else. Especially Lipman.
 
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