OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Part II (READ THE OP)

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The way to think about this epidemic is in terms of testing, in my opinion. When there isn't enough testing, the virus spreads unchecked - nobody knows who has it, and who should stop contacting other people. When testing is excessive, uncertainty evaporates, and it's clear who has the virus - and which of their friends should also be in quarantine. Pay careful attention to the rate of testing - not the number of cases.

to back that up

Scientists say mass tests in Italian town have halted Covid-19 there

A scientific study, rolled out by the University of Padua, with the help of the Veneto Region and the Red Cross, consisted of testing all 3,300 inhabitants of the town, including asymptomatic people. The goal was to study the natural history of the virus, the transmission dynamics and the categories at risk.

The researchers explained they had tested the inhabitants twice and that the study led to the discovery of the decisive role in the spread of the coronavirus epidemic of asymptomatic people.
When the study began, on 6 March, there were at least 90 infected in Vò. For days now, there have been no new cases.

“We were able to contain the outbreak here, because we identified and eliminated the ‘submerged’ infections and isolated them,” Andrea Crisanti, an infections expert at Imperial College London, who took part in the Vò project, told the Financial Times. “That is what makes the difference.”

The research allowed for the identification of at least six asymptomatic people who tested positive for Covid-19. ‘‘If these people had not been discovered,” said the researchers, they would probably have unknowingly infected other inhabitants.

obviously there is a big difference between being able to test 3,300 people and 327 million...but if you could test everyone and isolate the infected, you can virtually stop the spread. plus then the entire world doesn't because you aren't sure who is infected....

more testing means a huge jump in the reported cases which sounds scary if you are watching the numbers but really the more testing the better
 
Let’s hope nature takes care of itself. Coronavirus’ are nothing new while this is the only known strain which affects humans. Animals certainly don’t have as much interactions as humans yet those corona virus’ which affect animals don’t appear to wipe out the species. Nature stops the virus. Maybe nature will take care of this one. Let’s hope so.

Just for the record thats not true. There are multiple strains that affect humans. Most of them just cause a mild "cold" but there a few others like SARS and MERS that can be quite severe.
 
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I'm glad this thread isn't apocalyptic I honestly, thought it was the end of times listening to Deblasio. I've been avoiding this thread like the plague the last few days. Thank you for being responsible and not creating unnecessary panic. Some of us have anxiety issues.
 
Just for the record thats not true. There are multiple strains that affect humans. Most of them just cause a mild "cold" but there a few others like SARS and MERS that can be quite severe.
Thank you
 
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I feel that it is absolutely important to warn people about the scenarios happening in Italy, for instance. Any "this is just like the flu, and only 7500 people have died" message needs to be corrected quickly. That kind of thinking can literally kill people, as we've seen in Italy. The only way to avoid that kind of scenario is for people to be (rightfully) scared of the implications of leaving home, and adjust their behavior.

It's not about making people miserable, it's about correcting people's understanding about how severe this is so that we are all safer.

Italy has the oldest population in the 1st world with over 20% of their people over 60. They literally pay you a salary to move to certain towns because they're all old people and dying out. Also the death rate is about on par with the flu, 4k so far in a country of 60 mil. We have about 14k dead this season from the flu here. Yes of course it's worse, any new virus that hasn't spread yet will be, but we're talking about decimal points here vs. crashing the economy and halting life for the rest of the billions of people.
 
Maybe one day we won't need to, but today we do. Society can't function without fossil fuels and more importantly can't grow without them. Renewables aren't anywhere neat at the scale or cost we need to replace FFs. One day hopefully but that's a long way off

Are you willing to post your thoughts on why this (growth) is so important? Is there a point at which standard of living is good enough across the board that growth isn’t needed anymore?

We could easily be completely off fossil fuels in a very short period of time if we had the will for it. The tech challenges are minor at this point.
 
If this isn’t a thing, as you seem to be suggesting, why are governments doing this? What’s their motivation/incentive?

My guess is that this is the first time this has happened in the age of everyone being connected 24/7 glued to their tvs and phones and twitters and facebooks? If government ignores all the tweets they get fired come next election. That's the pragmatic view anyway. Judging by how some governments around the world are invoking mass surveillance on citizens at home...or making people disappear like they do in China? Who knows. What I do know is not 60 years ago people in power were murdering people by the literal tens of millions that disagreed with them over politics, I'm sure they're far more civilized now though!
 
Just a dumb and ignorant take on all levels really. Nothing much more to say.

Do you know what a pandemic is? Do you know what would happen if none of these measures were put into place? Why am I asking...that answer is clearly NO.

Yup the hospitals would tell all the free loaders that come in now because they have a bruise or scratch to f*** off and only use beds on those dying. Have you been to an ER in America in the last 10 years? It's full of morons who come there because they cant afford patient first and waste everyone's time. And yes, I'm positive more would die if we did nothing than if we did what were doing now, but we wouldn't have the side cost of putting millions upon millions into poverty and crime who then in turn hurt many more people.
 
@Gardner McKay

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It’s now been about two weeks that I’ve been working from home. I can’t take much more of this and unfortunately it’s going to be a lot longer.

I wonder by how much suicide rates will increase.
 
Some positive stuff from the positive thread. I know someone that worked for Teva maybe I should ask her about it.

Teva to Donate Potential COVID-19 Treatment, Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate Tablets to Hospitals Nationwide | Seeking Alpha
This is honestly the best and cheapest shot we have at treating this thing. There have been studies of chloroquine being effective against SARS-CoV, so it would make sense to be an option against it’s closest relative SARS-CoV2. Experiments on SARS-CoV2 seem to show promise also, as well as clinical trials.

there’s the novel ebola antiviral that could work too, but these old antimalarials could be just as effective and would make treatment so much more cost effective. Based on the data I’ve seen, I would ask for HCQ or CQ if I got the virus.
 
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Italy has the oldest population in the 1st world with over 20% of their people over 60. They literally pay you a salary to move to certain towns because they're all old people and dying out. Also the death rate is about on par with the flu, 4k so far in a country of 60 mil. We have about 14k dead this season from the flu here. Yes of course it's worse, any new virus that hasn't spread yet will be, but we're talking about decimal points here vs. crashing the economy and halting life for the rest of the billions of people.

Trigger warning: If anyone reading this is prone to anxiety or wants to avoid negative news/the possibility of panic, do not read my explanation below. Skip my post and move on, save your sanity.

However, if you think that the novel coronavirus is not much worse than the flu and we don't need to shut down cities because of it, and want to understand why you're dead wrong, please do read my reply.


Those "decimal points" are tens of thousands of human lives, likely much more, and without these extreme measures could likely have resulted in deaths by the millions. What are millions of human lives worth?

This is not about Italy, nor is it merely about the age of people who are most at risk. While the situation in Italy is extremely dire, with mayors in thirteen different towns confirming that the actual death toll is likely four times higher than has been reported because many people are simply dying at home alone, without being tested before or after death, it has become clear that this is not simply about age. The most current CDC data shows us that 38% of all hospitalizations due to COVID-19 were of people under the age of 55.

So why is that significant? Length of hospitalization appears to be about 11 days, double that of seasonal flu. Modeling based on existing data estimates that 5% of all cases require hospitalization, 2% of all cases need to be in the ICU and 1% require ventilation. As there is no vaccine for COVID-19, all hospital workers taking part in care need full personal protective equipment and each case requires 3 healthcare providers (sorry, I lost the link for that one). A lot of those supplies cannot be re-used and hospitals in the United States are already desperate for more, even turning to craft stores for makeshift supplies and asking the public for donations.

All told, this means that the true danger is not in the actual mortality rate of COVID-19, though it is still estimated to be ten times greater than that of seasonal flu, it is in how it completely overwhelms medical systems due to the length of time and requirements of care. Avoiding exponential growth of infection rates is critical or patients will begin to die simply because there aren't enough ICU beds or ventilators, health care workers will become sick because there isn't enough protective equipment further straining systems that won't have enough doctors, and patients requiring other types of care won't be able to get it. People will die in droves simply because the care they need to survive the disease won't be available due to overstressed systems, even one of the best medical systems in the world (Italy is ranked number 2).

There are two ways to combat this - containment through aggressive testing, tracking, and quarantining of the first cases, or attempting to flatten the exponential curve through suppression of the population (e.g. lockdowns, shelter in place) so that we spread out how quickly people get sick and need hospitalization, reducing the stress on the system at any given time. The US is well beyond the containment phase, and even New York hospitals are already feeling the strain with the peak estimated to be weeks out, if not a month and a half away, long after NY hospitals think they will run out of supplies.

If anything, we locked things down/crashed the economy/halted life for billions of people too late.
 
Just read some interesting papers about possible treatments.

Apparently using HIV anti-viral drugs arent effective according to this New England Journal of Medicine paper, which is interesting because thats what NYU directed their docs to treat high risk patients with as of last week.

Also chloroquine (an anti-malarial drug that has kind of been retired because of resistance) is apparently an effective treatment. Reports of clinical trials from China suggest it is effective. Also this paper from Nature shows its effective at blocking the virus development in vitro.

It would be really interesting if this cheap old drug actually works to cure this thing. Remdesivir is the other drug that has shown promise, thats the novel ebola drug developed by Gilead. A cheap old one would be a much more ideal solution to this mess though

Thanks Doctyl
 
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The final season!!! That is epic.

I'm glad restaurants are considered essential business.

I'm trying to stay positive but I'm really bout to snap if I can't have pizza.

My suggestion? Run to your nearest/favorite pizzeria and buy dough. Most will sell their dough for a few dollars. It is good in the fridge for up to two weeks (as long as it is properly sealed in a container) and can even be frozen.

I'm glad this thread isn't apocalyptic I honestly, thought it was the end of times listening to Deblasio. I've been avoiding this thread like the plague the last few days. Thank you for being responsible and not creating unnecessary panic. Some of us have anxiety issues.

Do you own an gaming consoles? Perhaps a PS4 or switch?
 
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Some advice on what I've been doing to stay sane while working from home for two weeks. It's worked for my associates and myself.

  • I have daily standups with each of my teams via Zoom video each morning.
  • We play a game each morning to see who has the best background filter and the get a $5 prize.
  • All meetings are to be through video zoom.
  • Recommended all associates purchase a cheap "standup" desk that they can push around their house with their laptop on it.
  • Take regular breaks to go for a walk or something that takes their mind off work.
  • Different work appropriate contests to keep engagement up and take their minds off what's going on for a bit.
  • Use of our corporate version of Slack to chat throughout the day.
 
I heard that the military was deployed and NY was called a disaster area. I'm actually encouraged by the response. I guess DeBlasio's freak out worked.
 
Does anybody understand what a stimulus package is today?

Is it dollars for people so they can pay their bills? Something to that effect?

or is it just dumping trillions into a market destined to fail?

Anybody? I honestly don’t know what to guess.
 
Does anybody understand what a stimulus package is today?

Is it dollars for people so they can pay their bills? Something to that effect?

or is it just dumping trillions into a market destined to fail?

Anybody? I honestly don’t know what to guess.
it's whatever the words say in the legislation

Most likely a bunch of loans, investments, and direct cash payouts
 
Does anybody understand what a stimulus package is today?

Is it dollars for people so they can pay their bills? Something to that effect?

or is it just dumping trillions into a market destined to fail?

Anybody? I honestly don’t know what to guess.

I read a while back, (well like a week ago, seems like a year) that the NY government will give small businesses interest free loans. I don't remember if it's for certain industries or not. I work for a small business lender so it's not great for us short term, but sounds like it'll be helpful for the economy. And maybe long term good for us too.

Edit: Found it Small businesses to get loans in wake of outbreak
 
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