A1LeafNation
Good, is simply not good enough!
- Oct 17, 2010
- 27,934
- 18,190
Core 5 in games 6 & 7 (2019-2022)
- Thread starter A1LeafNation
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thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
- Jun 17, 2011
- 44,305
- 14,858
I would say Marner by those stats and in a big way.
A1LeafNation
Good, is simply not good enough!
- Oct 17, 2010
- 27,934
- 18,190
Are you talking about 2006-2018 Crosby, or 2019-2022 Crosby being garbage?
He'd fit right in with this core based on your post...and he's not even making 11m.
SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
- Aug 1, 2013
- 35,591
- 16,777
I would say Marner is the largest disappointment by far. You are not winning many games when a guy like him is a massive liability and brings down the rest of the team.
The rest of the guys probably see a massive uptick if Marner started pulling his weight in those games. More attention taken off of the other three forwards (especially Matthews). More assists for Rielly.
Yeah now do cup wins or Conn smythes.
Yeah now do cup wins or Conn smythes.
Also why don't we compare Crosby at the same ages of Mitch and Matthews at least.
What a bullshit argument, as usual from you.
He has zero Cups or Conn Smythes during that time.
You mean it's not great to cherry pick small samples out of small samples out of small samples with no context to draw conclusions about players??
hamzarocks
Registered User
The leafs have no good samplesHe has zero Cups or Conn Smythes during that time.
You mean it's not great to cherry pick small samples out of small samples out of small samples with no context to draw conclusions about players??
The entire JT era has been an L.
Three years left to win something
hamzarocks
Registered User
3 years left to win something
JTs already a 57 pt player in the playoffs
In 3 years he'll be what a 25 pt player?
We'll be a competitive team for at least a decade more. At least as long as we don't make counterproductive moves based on cherry picking small samples from small samples from small samples with no context.
hamzarocks
Registered User
Naw can't say this with any conviction
2 years from now we'll know how we stand
34 and 88 need to be kept or replaced with similar/better core players
Hopefully we'll win a series or two in the next 2 years
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
just to provide some context
against habs Game 7: Marner tries to make fancy moves, gives the puck away at the opposition blue line, they transition to score a goal in Game 7. 1-0 habs
This season:
Game 6 OT against tampa. Marner makes a hailmary pass from toronto d-zone that gets intercepted; tampa transitions, Point walks in with Holl just watching him like a freakin Pylon and scores the OT winner
Games 6 and 7 this season -> Mathtews is working his tail off near the boards, laying body, taking hits to make a play, keeping the puck in opposition zone.
Marner and Bunting are so effing weak that as soon as the puck goes to them the puck is out of tampa zone.
Nylander:
This dude is an enigma. He freakin' drives the net with no fear in one game and gets decimated; then the next game he just floats near the board not caring about going after the puck. I don't know whats going on in his head.
Tavares: too slow (skating, decision making) -> 11 AAV btw
Rielly: Mo gets talked about a lot, but quite frankly he plays relatively well. His point totals are not showing up because forwards are not getting their job done right. The only thing you can call on Rielly is that his point shot is non-existent and Leafs' PP becomes way to predictable in the playoffs.
hamzarocks
Registered User
Once again we don't know that.
We should wait and see how the next 2 years go before giving a 10 year forecast
We pretty much do know that.
You're the one that started claiming competitive timelines. The best estimate for our competitive timeline is at least another decade.
hamzarocks
Registered User
I said we've failed so far in the 4 years we've had JT.
Then said we've got 3 attempts left with JT on his deal.
Another decade is not the best estimate it's the most optimistic one. Assuming our prospects all hit, our core re-signs and we can get some cheaper options to replace the supporting players.
A retool is on the horizon if the next 2 years don't see any change in the teams playoffs fortunes
You said we had "3 years left to win something". That's setting a competitive timeline. The more accurate competitive timeline is another decade, not 3 years. Our competitive timeline is far, far, far more dependent on Matthews/Marner - who are extremely likely to re-sign and be excellent players for another decade - than Tavares.
hamzarocks
Registered User
I said three years left to win something after referring to the failures of the JT era/4 years so far.
MM and AM even if they stick around will need high quality support. Well need our other core guys to be able to produce at their expected level to win
JT has failed to do so. In 3 years he's a UFA and it's a reset to the org in terms of the structure of our core changing
10 years is once again an optimistic timeline. We're 1 1st round loss away from a likely change in managment at which point the core and direction fo the team will be reassessed.
The potential for a retool and major changes are much closer and apparent than you'd care to admin
Pressure is super high on toronto to win something for once. Need to give reason for players to want to play in Toronto. Need to give reasons to the 2 core guys that toronto is a team capable of winning now and moving forward.
Right now a lot of uncertainty and questions linger.
And there's no reason to think they won't have it.
No, it's the most realistic estimation, as long as we don't start making bad, counterproductive moves based on, for example, cherry picking small samples from small samples from small samples with no context. We have until Matthews/Marner start declining, which is likely to happen in their mid-30s.
hamzarocks
Registered User
We looked at the only samples available under the big 4 era. 2019 to 2022 in the playoffs which are where success is determined, not in the regular season. Yeah, we looked at games 5-7, but that makes sense as the core has failed to close teams out and has seen both their GF and GA fall/rise (worsen) in games 5 to 7 (or 3-5 for CBJ) vs the first 4 games of the series.
If we look at their total playoff productions as leafs from 2019, none of them are performing up to par.
Matthews has 26 pts in 26 games
Marner has 20 pts in 26 games
Nylander has 22 pts in 26 games (closest one living up to his contract)
JT has 14 pts in 20 games
The core four have underwhelmed and underdelivered in the playoffs. They have led us to 4 straight 1st round exits, by not being good enough.
Every question sent their way is deserved and they should be called out for their failures. Crosby btw has also failed from 2019 to 2022 and hasn't been good enough. He got his cups and amazing playoff runs so the pressure isn't as high in Pittsburgh.
Toronto has 2 years to contend, then they will need to reassess if this is a core worth keeping, and the same for the core if this is an organization worth staying in long-term.
You’re so disingenuous it’s laughable. The arrogance that drips from your posts exposes your insecurities.He has zero Cups or Conn Smythes during that time.
You mean it's not great to cherry pick small samples out of small samples out of small samples with no context to draw conclusions about players??
Pull AM and MM career stats in elimination games and stack that against Crosby’s. You still want to go down that road?
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