Blue Jays Discussion: Confirmed: Vladimir Guerrero Jr is still good at baseball
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phillipmike
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- Oct 27, 2009
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Not a shock. Nearly everyone that was invited had an out and Fowler probably had his later to allow him to actually try to make it.
He raked in limited plate appearances in Buffalo - wonder if another team that's a better fit for him has shown interest.
trellaine201
Registered User
Not really, especially as a bench option. The only thing Fowler has going for him is that he's a switch-hitter, but he's not a good hitter (unless he's healthy and somehow able to turn back the clock a few years at 36), not very fast anymore, and he's always been a poor defender.
As a 4th/5th OF, I'm not sure what role he fills because he's worse than Gurriel, Springer, and Teoscar at hitting, defense, and baserunning. Zimmer is a better runner and defender than all three, so at least he can fill a minor (but potentially impactful) role on the team.
Dr.Funk
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- Jul 2, 2004
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Maybe moving Bo to 2nd is the solution after all!
Only 2 problems:
1. I can't quit Espinal
2. Bo has too much hair for the 2nd base position
Leafblooded
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Suntouchable13
Registered User
So the big debates from the offseason
1) We should get a bat to DH vs we're keeping the 4 OF we have.
Result: Traded for a Grichuk for a legit 4th OF and while our DH spot has been decent, it is decent because our quality hitters are DHing while the actual addition to the lineup is stinking (cough, combined -0.8fWAR from Tapia, Zimmer and Capra). One of the options we discussed was to keep Grichuk (he's WYSIWYG, with decent D and a whatever bat that would still be slightly better than what we are getting) and the other was to sign/trade for a bopper who makes putting a defender on the field irrelevant.
2) We should add an arm to the back end of the bullpen
Result: Geez, what a shock! If you play a lot of close ball games, eventually the bullpen is going to start losing some. The whole premise of adding another late inning guy was to take some of the late game heavy lifting off the big guys. But looking at this in a direct consequences POV, this extra reliever takes Saucedo/Kay off the roster for April (combined -0.4fWAR) then likely causes the demotion of Thornton or Merryweather.
We are doing okay and things will right themselves, but if management had done either one of these things, we'd be in even better shape because they are both obvious gaps in the team (and still are).
1) We should get a bat to DH vs we're keeping the 4 OF we have.
Result: Traded for a Grichuk for a legit 4th OF and while our DH spot has been decent, it is decent because our quality hitters are DHing while the actual addition to the lineup is stinking (cough, combined -0.8fWAR from Tapia, Zimmer and Capra). One of the options we discussed was to keep Grichuk (he's WYSIWYG, with decent D and a whatever bat that would still be slightly better than what we are getting) and the other was to sign/trade for a bopper who makes putting a defender on the field irrelevant.
2) We should add an arm to the back end of the bullpen
Result: Geez, what a shock! If you play a lot of close ball games, eventually the bullpen is going to start losing some. The whole premise of adding another late inning guy was to take some of the late game heavy lifting off the big guys. But looking at this in a direct consequences POV, this extra reliever takes Saucedo/Kay off the roster for April (combined -0.4fWAR) then likely causes the demotion of Thornton or Merryweather.
We are doing okay and things will right themselves, but if management had done either one of these things, we'd be in even better shape because they are both obvious gaps in the team (and still are).
Don't get me wrong. I am still fine with Grichuk for Tapia itself. The bigger problem is that while Tapia or Zimmer represent the type of player that this team needed, we did not under any conditions need 2 of them.
The real debate was getting a Cruz/Votto (straight DH) which I wanted vs spending money or assets to get another OF who would be an actual upgrade on Grichuk. Both of these options still exist, and one of them should still be done (even if upgrade was taking Gallo off the Yankees hands or something like that)
I'm sure they would have been more inclined to keep Grichuk if they knew that Teo was going to last five innings into the season.
Those two were an either/or debate for the most part. We either upgraded Grichuk, signed a DH, or signed a bullpen arm. Any of those three options would have helped immensely. Getting Tapia was decent (he isn't doing much, but he does offer a different profile, which is nice). I don't like the Zimmer move because we could have just kept Lukes with the team.
I don't mind the "Should have added a big bat" take, but, despite the hot start, no part of me thinks swapping Tapia for Grichuk would make this team better this season.
For the record, Grichuk's xwOBA is .339 and Tapia's is .329, and Grichuk has somehow managed -4 OAA in the outfield already.
WYSIWYG is fine until you realize that what you're seeing is basically a replacement-level player.
I wouldn't undo that trade if the Zimmer trade didn't happen. And the Zimmer trade would have been fine if we hadn't just traded for Tapia.
I'm saying that I'd rather have Grichuk (who is redundant as a poorer Springer/Teo) than Zimmer (who is redundant as a glove-first no hit OF).
When the team is healthy, Zimmer makes a ton of sense, and probably more than Lukes. The 5th OF is barely going to play, but at least Zimmer is a clear upgrade over all the current OF on the bases and in the field, so you can plug him in where you need to and take advantage of what he does well. Lukes would basically be what Grichuk was: a guy who just sits on the bench and isn't better than anyone of the starters at anything.
If it continues to not work out or they continue to need someone to play regularly, they still have Lukes, and the cost of acquiring Zimmer was the guy who would probably get DFAd to make room for Lukes anyway and a few weeks of a former prospect you hoped could figure something out.
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If we needed someone to play regularly (like now) I would prefer Grichuk, since he's a better overall player. But as a 5th OF, Zimmer makes way more sense. Grichuk is redundant because he's worse than all three starters at everything. Zimmer is at least better than all of them as a baserunner and defender, so he can play a role off the bench. There's basically no situation in which Grichuk comes off the bench for any of them.
The issue for me is usage. And it has always been usage. If we play Biggio in RF more and he struggles, then so be it, because he's been decent in the past and I can live with that. Then we get back into a situation where Zimmer could pinch run for someone and play D (the role they saw for him). The third catcher is the killer IMO. If we didn't have 3C here, we could giving at-bats to someone who actually earned a call-up instead of a third catcher.
I mean, for a short term situation, I would even have accepted having Lukes with the other two
No arguments from me on the three catchers. It's stupid and pointless and a waste of a roster spot.
Y'all are missing Grichuk, now? Gee, who didn't see that coming? 
That said, Pinto looks electric, and though there have been a few times where Tapia could have won a game, there are so many other bats running cold right now you can't really put too much blame on him. There are plenty of other players capable of carrying the team.
They didn't have to. Springer alone was good enough incentive, nevermind the fact Grichuk has played quite a bit the entire time he has been here due to various injuries. Jays' outfield has been pretty fragile.
Can the other Jays rock Bo's hair as well as he does?
That said, Pinto looks electric, and though there have been a few times where Tapia could have won a game, there are so many other bats running cold right now you can't really put too much blame on him. There are plenty of other players capable of carrying the team.
They didn't have to. Springer alone was good enough incentive, nevermind the fact Grichuk has played quite a bit the entire time he has been here due to various injuries. Jays' outfield has been pretty fragile.
Can the other Jays rock Bo's hair as well as he does?
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phillipmike
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