Conacher

[GimmeMyJetpack]

Seriously, there is a double standard on this team. Guys like greening and michalek are getting huge huge huge slack. Conacher, Pageau and even Zibby are not.

Conacher deserves a shot on the top line again. He did fine with spezza. Put Michalek on the third line heck he even looks better playing smith. Conacher creates with his tenacity, regardless of whether or not he is scoring himself. He's a beast in front of the net. He has really good puck tracking and does a wonderful job of screening goalies. Why isnt he on the 2nd PP anymore? oh right Chris Neil is. Conacher scores dirty goals, that's what he's good at. I'm not sure why anyone expects him to carry the puck. Put him with someone who shoots and watch him bang/tip home those goals. Stop wasting him on the 4th line and I see no reason why he cant pot some goals. Definitely more than Smith/Neil/Greening/Michalek.

The biggest issue i have with Conacher is that he has issues in the defensive zone. He runs around way too much. It's kind of the opposite of Michalek/greening/Neil who all just stand there waiting for the puck and get embarassed on the boards. Seriously how are those 3 big guys so terrible on the boards this year? Standing around waiting for pucks or high pressure defense while going out of position...Heck I don't even know whats worse.

 

[Stylizer1]

Conacher's ES production last season was 23 pts in 544 mins, of which 9 came with Stamkos in 170 mins.

That leaves 14 pts in 374 mins, or .748 pts per 20 mins. That is in the same range as James Neal, Bobby Ryan, Daniel Sedin, Yakupov, Ovechkin, and Brad Richards had last season, and again, that's only his time without Stamkos were looking at. He has skill and potential if given the mins, not saying he will be as good offensively as the above, but he certainly has the ability to be cast in a supporting role.

This nonsense that only looked good because of Stamkos is clearly a myth. He slumping now, but I'll personally look to his 1st 47 games when judging his potential over just the last 17. Better yet, look at the whole career. Slumps happen, so do hot streaks. There is no need to get excited over one or the other.

Sounds good but, His first game in the NHL he was in midseason form where half the league was not.

12 points in his first 7 games, Impressive
0 in his next 6, bad.
8 points in his next 10, pretty good
4 points in final 12 games before he is traded to Ottawa. Not good
5 points in final 12 games with Ottawa
8 playoff games, 3 points.

New season

3 points in 17 games.

Last season his points went down and then his ice time.

He had 2 stretches where he put up great totals. The rest not good at all.

If points don't matter in this argument then I am sure he is doing a fine job

 

[Stylizer1]

Seriously, there is a double standard on this team. Guys like greening and michalek are getting huge huge huge slack. Conacher, Pageau and even Zibby are not.

Conacher deserves a shot on the top line again. He did fine with spezza. Put Michalek on the third line heck he even looks better playing smith. Conacher creates with his tenacity, regardless of whether or not he is scoring himself. He's a beast in front of the net. He has really good puck tracking and does a wonderful job of screening goalies. Why isnt he on the 2nd PP anymore? oh right Chris Neil is. Conacher scores dirty goals, that's what he's good at. I'm not sure why anyone expects him to carry the puck. Put him with someone who shoots and watch him bang/tip home those goals. Stop wasting him on the 4th line and I see no reason why he cant pot some goals. Definitely more than Smith/Neil/Greening/Michalek.

The biggest issue i have with Conacher is that he has issues in the defensive zone. He runs around way too much. It's kind of the opposite of Michalek/greening/Neil who all just stand there waiting for the puck and get embarassed on the boards. Seriously how are those 3 big guys so terrible on the boards this year? Standing around waiting for pucks or high pressure defense while going out of position...Heck I don't even know whats worse.

People have been talking about not re-signing Michalek or trading him. Greening has regressed from where he was the last few seasons. His track record has shown he deserves some time to get his game together. In reality both players depend a lot on a healthy Spezza to make that line go. So far Spezza has not been looking 100%. Both Michalek and Greening have speed and size and with that should be able to wear down who ever they are matched with.
So far it has been challenge but at least 2/3 of those players are producing.

 

[Micklebot]

Sounds good but, His first game in the NHL he was in midseason form where half the league was not.

12 points in his first 7 games, Impressive
0 in his next 6, bad.
8 points in his next 10, pretty good
4 points in final 12 games before he is traded to Ottawa. Not good
5 points in final 12 games with Ottawa
8 playoff games, 3 points.

New season

3 points in 17 games.

Last season his points went down and then his ice time.

He had 2 stretches where he put up great totals. The rest not good at all.

If points don't matter in this argument then I am sure he is doing a fine job

Just so were clear, the points you described for Conacher as a Sen and just prior to the trade last season come to about a 30-35 pts pace. Do you feel that's unacceptable for a guy playing 3rd line minutes? How about for a rookie? If he was being put in a top 6 role, maybe you'd have a point. But the reality is he has been given a secondary/depth role.

 

[Micklebot]

People have been talking about not re-signing Michalek or trading him. Greening has regressed from where he was the last few seasons. His track record has shown he deserves some time to get his game together. In reality both players depend a lot on a healthy Spezza to make that line go. So far Spezza has not been looking 100%. Both Michalek and Greening have speed and size and with that should be able to wear down who ever they are matched with.
So far it has been challenge but at least 2/3 of those players are producing.

The talk of not resigning Michalek stems from his injury issues and a fear that he will never return to form, not sure that's really the same situation.

As for Greening, his track record stems almost entirely from playing alongside a healthy Spezza. Without Spezza, what has Greening ever done? If he can't get it done without him, why give him any slack?

Conacher on the other hand looked good playing on the Turris line prior to Ryan talking over, and looked good playing on Spezza's wing despite the 2nd winger being one of Neil or Greening.

Production isn't important only because we are dealing with a small sample, especially when narrowing down to the sample where Conacher was being used in an offensive role as opposed to lining up with a combination of Kassian Smith, Grant and Neil.

 

[Stylizer1]

Just so were clear, the points you described for Conacher as a Sen and just prior to the trade last season come to about a 30-35 pts pace. Do you feel that's unacceptable for a guy playing 3rd line minutes? How about for a rookie? If he was being put in a top 6 role, maybe you'd have a point. But the reality is he has been given a secondary/depth role.

I am just trying to show that the bulk of his points came coming out of a lockout and having a 36 game head start on conditioning in the AHL.

After a full off season of training and a full training camp healthy he has managed 3 points.

Some are saying that the majority of his success thus far in the NHL is because of the Tampa bay offense which he was apart of.

Some are saying it is a lack of ice time which is due to the drop.

The stats show that as his production dropped so did his ice time.

During the pre season a radio host said he needed to get his diabetes issues sorted out and that could be the cause of his drop off in productivity.

I am of the opinion because of his style of play he will never be able to sustain that over an 82 game season AND be productive enough to be on a top line.

It is either he is a goal scorer or he is a 3rd/4th line energy player.

So far he is not good at one and has been as average as they come in the other.

 

[burf]

I don't care about how many points he has, when I watch the games he looks pretty good. He's also been on for over 1/4 of the team's 5v5 goals, and while a bunch of that is just "right place right time", I think it also speaks to how great of a net-front presence he's been.

Also, last night Conacher-Grant-Zibby looked amazing when Zibanejad was getting double shifted. It was our 2nd best line after the Turris line, but sadly it didn't last too long.

 

[armani]

I have a funny feeling that a Conacher-Spezza-Michalek line may work wonders for all three players involved, they just need to stay together for a bit vs. the constant line line juggling circus we have been subjected to recently.

 

[mrkevo]

I have a funny feeling that a Conacher-Spezza-Michalek line may work wonders for all three players involved, they just need to stay together for a bit vs. the constant line line juggling circus we have been subjected to recently.

Exactly. I think that given a fair shot this line would be an excellent first or second scoring line. The line juggling really needs to stop. Let Spezza's line build some chemistry. Give it a chance for a good five games then start switching them around, this is getting ridiculous.

 

[Hossa18]

Edmonton offered Jones. Not a chance Bishop was landing Eberle. Simmonds was a pipe dream as well. If people are upset because of the value we got back for Bishop, they don;t have a firm grasp of the value of unproven backup (3rd string) goalies.

Halak got an unproven Eller after creating controversy with Price and being lights out in the Playoffs.

Huet, a proven starter, landed a 2nd.

You do understand that I said as part of a package right?

 

[Sun God Nika]

if the conacher experiment fails blame the line juggling not him.

 

[Xspyrit]

In conclusion, I think we will need a lot more time to draw any conclusions on Conacher

Yes because he only scores when we need him too.

All I see is that you have no answer for intelligible arguments...

I didn't like the return on Bishop when the trade happened but not because I think Conacher sucks, I didn't like it because I felt we had many players in our system that could play the same style as Conacher and therefore redundant to me. Guys like Pageau, Prince and Hoffman can all play a similar style to Conacher and all are smallish players and you can only have so many of them in your lineup.

I felt Bishop could have gotten us a better return in part of a package for a better player ie: Eberle or Simmonds.

And that's the problem. You guys have unrealistic expecations... There's no way Bishop could ever return a player like Eberle (unless he turns into Lundqvist maybe) and surely, there's no way he had returned Eberle or even Simmonds when he was still an unproven back-up with 36 NHL games. If it's part of a package, the other part would have need to be a lot bigger than Bishop himself

And there's no way we could have kept on building his value with both Anderson and Lehner healthy. You can only put 1 goalie in the net, no use to have 3 good/great NHL goalies, 2 is perfect with a good 3rd in Bingo.

Perspective people.

We turned a 2nd round pick into Bishop that we used in 23 NHL games (got us 11 wins, some were key for playoffs qualification both years) then into 23 y/o Cory Conacher and a 4th round selection in 2013 (Lindberg). Bishop also did very well for Bingo.

I think we did pretty good there. And trading the 2nd to get Bishop is already well worth it with the Bishop wins in Ottawa and the timely goals Conacher has scored in the playoffs. If someone did bad in this, it's the Blues. But even then, saying that is just insight, Bishop didn't have much more value back then. GMs don't trade in hindsight.

Conacher's ES production last season was 23 pts in 544 mins, of which 9 came with Stamkos in 170 mins.

That leaves 14 pts in 374 mins, or .748 pts per 20 mins. That is in the same range as James Neal, Bobby Ryan, Daniel Sedin, Yakupov, Ovechkin, and Brad Richards had last season, and again, that's only his time without Stamkos were looking at. He has skill and potential if given the mins, not saying he will be as good offensively as the above, but he certainly has the ability to be cast in a supporting role.

This nonsense that only looked good because of Stamkos is clearly a myth. He slumping now, but I'll personally look to his 1st 47 games when judging his potential over just the last 17. Better yet, look at the whole career. Slumps happen, so do hot streaks. There is no need to get excited over one or the other.

I think we pretty much know already that most people on HF talk over their hat and don't base themselves on real facts to form an opinion. It's pretty much sensationalism journalism over here.

Just so were clear, the points you described for Conacher as a Sen and just prior to the trade last season come to about a 30-35 pts pace. Do you feel that's unacceptable for a guy playing 3rd line minutes? How about for a rookie? If he was being put in a top 6 role, maybe you'd have a point. But the reality is he has been given a secondary/depth role.

Was going to answer that but job is already done, great

 

[otown]

if the conacher experiment fails blame the line juggling not him.

Would have to agree that Conacher deserves a better fate. I believe he still has value to the Sens despite his reduced ice time as a result of being moved from the top 6.
I would not hesitate top put him with Spezza and Michalek for a few games.

 

[Quo]

You do understand that I said as part of a package right?

You're still dealing with fantasy though.

 

[starling]

Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch 20m
Spezza skating with Michalek and Conacher. #Sens

 

[Stylizer1]

All I see is that you have no answer for intelligible arguments...

When you write one I will respond accordingly.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

if the conacher experiment fails blame the line juggling not him.

The line juggling has touched every Sens player, with Mac-Turris-Ryan remaining somewhat stable simply because they are producing.

To even suggest these line changes only disadvantages Conacher, I'm sorry but that is just nonsense.

MacLean's job is basically winning, and if Cory had shown he was an key part of the top six that is where he would be playing.

The truth is Cory was less than average in his time with the top six and average at best on the fourth line.

Now by no means does that suggest Cory should be traded, however with the performance of a few of the Bingo boys Murray may be forced to consider trying to slide him through waivers.

Personally I think a stint in Bingo would do Cory a world of good, he needs to regain his confidence with the puck. I also am of the opinion no team would claim him at this point in time, he really hasn't shown much that a team would be willing to keep him on the NHL roster.

 

[Stylizer1]

You're still dealing with fantasy though.

I would have given up a Cowen along with Bishop for Eberle.

Sweeten the deal with a prospect, no problem.


Michalek Spezza Eberle
MacArthur Turris Ryan
Greening Zibanejad Neil
Grant Smith Condra
Kassian

Wiercioch Karlsson
Methot Borowiecki
Phillips Gryba
Corvo

Puck possession team galore.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

I would have given up a Cowen along with Bishop for Eberle.

Sweeten the deal with a prospect, no problem.


Michalek Spezza Eberle
MacArthur Turris Ryan
Greening Zibanejad Neil
Grant Smith Condra
Kassian

Wiercioch Karlsson
Methot Borowiecki
Phillips Gryba
Corvo

Puck possession team galore.

If you really think that Edmonton would of given up Eberle for Cowen and Bishop at that time then there is no point in arguing who wouldn't take that deal (besides Edmonton) ?

 

[Tampacuseforever]

The line juggling has touched every Sens player, with Mac-Turris-Ryan remaining somewhat stable simply because they are producing.

To even suggest these line changes only disadvantages Conacher, I'm sorry but that is just nonsense.

MacLean's job is basically winning, and if Cory had shown he was an key part of the top six that is where he would be playing.

The truth is Cory was less than average in his time with the top six and average at best on the fourth line.

Now by no means does that suggest Cory should be traded, however with the performance of a few of the Bingo boys Murray may be forced to consider trying to slide him through waivers.

Personally I think a stint in Bingo would do Cory a world of good, he needs to regain his confidence with the puck. I also am of the opinion no team would claim him at this point in time, he really hasn't shown much that a team would be willing to keep him on the NHL roster.

You have hit on my point exactly at this point he is not top six but he certainly isn't a forth line player. He should be playing third line. There doesn't seem to be a fit and if that is the case trade him. I agree a couple of weeks in Bingo would do Cory some good but it isnt going to happen. I strongly disagree with you that he would have any chance of passing through waivers. A kid with his skill and drive making less than a million and years away from free agency, who and why wouldn't teams take a chance on him ? As far as the Bingo boys go you heard Murray say that if they force the issue he would have to move a few veterans to make room. By the way Zibanejad taking forth line reps at practice today ? I keep thinking something is going on things just dont make sense ?

 

[Stylizer1]

If you really think that Edmonton would of given up Eberle for Cowen and Bishop at that time then there is no point in arguing who wouldn't take that deal (besides Edmonton) ?

Great.

 

[aragorn]

Hoffman is off to a pretty good start in Bingo these days, I would replace Conacher with him for a few games to see if we can get some scoring out of him. We ae not getting any scoring out of Conacher & he doesn't do anythig else that matters IMO. Greening & Michalek can & have dome much more for this team in there time here than Conacher has, I tired of waiting for him to score. Greening is a defensive specialist & plays his role well enough although I wish he was meaner & played with more of an edge.

 

[Sens Rule]

The line juggling has touched every Sens player, with Mac-Turris-Ryan remaining somewhat stable simply because they are producing.

To even suggest these line changes only disadvantages Conacher, I'm sorry but that is just nonsense.

MacLean's job is basically winning, and if Cory had shown he was an key part of the top six that is where he would be playing.

The truth is Cory was less than average in his time with the top six and average at best on the fourth line.

Now by no means does that suggest Cory should be traded, however with the performance of a few of the Bingo boys Murray may be forced to consider trying to slide him through waivers.

Personally I think a stint in Bingo would do Cory a world of good, he needs to regain his confidence with the puck. I also am of the opinion no team would claim him at this point in time, he really hasn't shown much that a team would be willing to keep him on the NHL roster.

My eye test shows Conacher being all over the place, crashing the net and drawing penalties. He hasn't got points but that is not everything. He was extremely effective with Turris and MacArthur and the line was effective before Ryan took his spot there. Ryan took his spot there because he wasn't meshing with Spezza, it had nothing to do with Conacher not being effective on the second line.

With the lines being all switched around, Conacher has seen his place all over moreso due to other players, not his own play. He is getting so little icetime because he doesn't kill penalties from the 4th line, and only gets a bit of PP time. A 4th line with Kassian is just not going to play a ton of minutes.

I really do not think that Maclean is upset with Conacher's play at all. He has just been placed in the lineup on the 4th line because they need someone there who has some offence. Zibanejad would be his centre, except he was put with Spezza. Neil and Conacher play the same game and if both drive the net... no shots end up being there to screen or tip in.

Anyway.... Conacher is young. He was just the AHL MVP, he is coming off a season where he was near the Rookie of the year, he played relatively effectively in the playoffs despite being benched a few games. He is hardly fodder. What do people expect from him?

There is absolutely no way whatsoever he makes it through waivers. The Bingo boys may be knocking... but Conacher already has OWNED that league... MVP as a rookie in a very high level league. No matter how well Stone or Hoffman or Pageau perform in Bingo, you have to think Conacher is even a better player. And I don't think he is a Corey Locke perma-minor leaguer, he has great speed... has shown he can play with talent in Tampa, and shown he can play with normal players in some very effective games with the Sens. He has grit, he is relentlessly going to the net. He just is not an AHLer anymore.

We should not be giving up on him after 17 games. Also why has Maclean played him more often then Neil, Condra, Da Costa, Pageau, Grant and Kassian if he is so bad? He is not close to being scratched, let alone demoted and put through waivers or traded.

The grass is always greener in the minors I guess. We do have great depth and I do want to see Stone and Hoffman and Pageau get chances to play in Ottawa. But that is going to come through injury most likely. If Conacher keeps playing like he has been, he is going to start getting points. If anything Greening is more of a passenger and needs to get going. And Neil. Conacher is playing quite well. At least in my opinion.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

My eye test shows Conacher being all over the place, crashing the net and drawing penalties. He hasn't got points but that is not everything. He was extremely effective with Turris and MacArthur and the line was effective before Ryan took his spot there. Ryan took his spot there because he wasn't meshing with Spezza, it had nothing to do with Conacher not being effective on the second line.

With the lines being all switched around, Conacher has seen his place all over moreso due to other players, not his own play. He is getting so little icetime because he doesn't kill penalties from the 4th line, and only gets a bit of PP time. A 4th line with Kassian is just not going to play a ton of minutes.

I really do not think that Maclean is upset with Conacher's play at all. He has just been placed in the lineup on the 4th line because they need someone there who has some offence. Zibanejad would be his centre, except he was put with Spezza. Neil and Conacher play the same game and if both drive the net... no shots end up being there to screen or tip in.

Anyway.... Conacher is young. He was just the AHL MVP, he is coming off a season where he was near the Rookie of the year, he played relatively effectively in the playoffs despite being benched a few games. He is hardly fodder. What do people expect from him?

There is absolutely no way whatsoever he makes it through waivers. The Bingo boys may be knocking... but Conacher already has OWNED that league... MVP as a rookie in a very high level league. No matter how well Stone or Hoffman or Pageau perform in Bingo, you have to think Conacher is even a better player. And I don't think he is a Corey Locke perma-minor leaguer, he has great speed... has shown he can play with talent in Tampa, and shown he can play with normal players in some very effective games with the Sens. He has grit, he is relentlessly going to the net. He just is not an AHLer anymore.

We should not be giving up on him after 17 games. Also why has Maclean played him more often then Neil, Condra, Da Costa, Pageau, Grant and Kassian if he is so bad? He is not close to being scratched, let alone demoted and put through waivers or traded.

The grass is always greener in the minors I guess. We do have great depth and I do want to see Stone and Hoffman and Pageau get chances to play in Ottawa. But that is going to come through injury most likely. If Conacher keeps playing like he has been, he is going to start getting points. If anything Greening is more of a passenger and needs to get going. And Neil. Conacher is playing quite well. At least in my opinion.

 

[Midas0]

The line juggling has touched every Sens player, with Mac-Turris-Ryan remaining somewhat stable simply because they are producing.

To even suggest these line changes only disadvantages Conacher, I'm sorry but that is just nonsense.

MacLean's job is basically winning, and if Cory had shown he was an key part of the top six that is where he would be playing.

The truth is Cory was less than average in his time with the top six and average at best on the fourth line.

Now by no means does that suggest Cory should be traded, however with the performance of a few of the Bingo boys Murray may be forced to consider trying to slide him through waivers.

Personally I think a stint in Bingo would do Cory a world of good, he needs to regain his confidence with the puck. I also am of the opinion no team would claim him at this point in time, he really hasn't shown much that a team would be willing to keep him on the NHL roster.

100% that Conacher gets picked up if he's waived. You'd have to think that the Panthers would take him in a heartbeat. Same with Tampa- they easily win the trade if they get Conacher right back lol.