Movies: Comedy Enthusiasts, what matters most to you in comedy movies?
- Thread starter OzzyFan
- Start date
- Jul 24, 2005
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Staying true to the original intention of the script is a big one for me.
Bad Santa is vulgar, offensive and IMO absolutely hilarious.
Sideways is cerebral, subtle and hilarious in its own right.
Wag The Dog is highly satirical, poignant, and hilarious.
A good script is the key. Without it, comedy cannot work.
Bad Santa is vulgar, offensive and IMO absolutely hilarious.
Sideways is cerebral, subtle and hilarious in its own right.
Wag The Dog is highly satirical, poignant, and hilarious.
A good script is the key. Without it, comedy cannot work.
Shareefruck
Registered User
In my opinion, comedy movies generally stink in comparison to TV comedies, and in either case, a great comedy still needs to be held to the same standards as a great movie. I think that anything that says you have to turn off your brain and not think too much or not pick it apart too much in order to enjoy it is just pointless trash that usually isn't even funny.
Things are funnier and better when thought is put into every aspect of it (that doesn't mean that every area has to be polished, but every area has to have an effect, even if it's intentionally rough and messy), the context needs to be perfect, and everything needs to build up to it perfectly and be devoid of excess distractions. It doesn't need to be a hoity toity pretentious art movie or be logically sound to do that, but that doesn't make the non-joke-per-minute stuff any less important.
Arrested Development, early It's Always Sunny, Curb, early Simpsons, Monty Python, etc.... care is put into the whole thing, not just the direct jokes, and that's how comedy works best, most effectively, and most humorously, IMO. Otherwise they're usually (with exceptions) cheap unearned laughs that just get annoying on rewatch-- I definitely think the value of turning off your brain to be able to laugh at cheap unearned laughs that you otherwise wouldn't give it is negative and kind of moronic, just like it would be for a blockbuster. There's no such thing as getting something worthwhile out of something through self delusion, IMO.
Things are funnier and better when thought is put into every aspect of it (that doesn't mean that every area has to be polished, but every area has to have an effect, even if it's intentionally rough and messy), the context needs to be perfect, and everything needs to build up to it perfectly and be devoid of excess distractions. It doesn't need to be a hoity toity pretentious art movie or be logically sound to do that, but that doesn't make the non-joke-per-minute stuff any less important.
Arrested Development, early It's Always Sunny, Curb, early Simpsons, Monty Python, etc.... care is put into the whole thing, not just the direct jokes, and that's how comedy works best, most effectively, and most humorously, IMO. Otherwise they're usually (with exceptions) cheap unearned laughs that just get annoying on rewatch-- I definitely think the value of turning off your brain to be able to laugh at cheap unearned laughs that you otherwise wouldn't give it is negative and kind of moronic, just like it would be for a blockbuster. There's no such thing as getting something worthwhile out of something through self delusion, IMO.
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BonMorrison
Registered User
Not sure how to articulate what I'm saying but it's different for every comedy movie because the context of the situation is incredibly important and different for every film.
PeterSidorkiewicz
HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion
I much prefer TV comedies to movies for the most part too. But it depends on my mood like the other poster said when watching a comedy movie. Sometimes I want something stupid, but not so stupid it just isn't good writing funny. I love dark comedies, and also if Mike Judge is involved I usually watch it too.
With friends I usually like to watch campy B horror movies as the good ones will always make make me laugh. So what matters most? Probably my mood.
With friends I usually like to watch campy B horror movies as the good ones will always make make me laugh. So what matters most? Probably my mood.
GarbageGoal
Courage
I guess some of it is "turn your brain off and laugh your ass off stuff", but I think it's more than that. I mean, it depends on your personal sense of humor of course, but there is a lot of stuff that is over the top or just plain not funny at all put into some horrible comedy movies. I think there is a line, especially for most people in the world. For example, Kihei's line for good comedy is likely a lot slimmer than your general average intelligence human being. Where as for me I think it's a bit wider, albeit there is some stuff that is purely "smile/giggle here and there worth" and there is the different "laugh every couple minutes/huge laugh here and there" stuff. The latter is comedy gold, even with subpar plots/story, imo.
Nothing against you, but I think people like this generally or even forcefully need to just find a way to relax and enjoy the little laughs (half stealing a zombieland thing) and you'd be a much happier person(the world would be much happier). Cheap gags or slapstick when done properly are hilarious. One liners, even if silly at times, can be hilariously spontaneous and memorable/repeatable. Witt and whacky can be great.
While Arrested Development and Curb are awesome. But sometimes you just want to watch some say American Dad and laugh at some cheap silly and odd stuff. .
Let me throw something at you....did you find The Hangover funny? Hilarious?
Exactly. Thinnest of plots, weak story, yet hilarious.
Ozz
Registered User
Can't say. There are classics I don't care for, but awful bombs that somehow nearly bring me to tears.
I do like to just not think about it and get some laughs. Dumb plots don't bother me, improbable happenings, bad dialogue, easy jokes, etc don't either, but that also doesn't mean I'm laugh at anything. It's all just unique to whatever I'm watching.
I do like clever humor, but not to the point where it seems so contrived and forced that it loses its purity. I don't know...
I do like to just not think about it and get some laughs. Dumb plots don't bother me, improbable happenings, bad dialogue, easy jokes, etc don't either, but that also doesn't mean I'm laugh at anything. It's all just unique to whatever I'm watching.
I do like clever humor, but not to the point where it seems so contrived and forced that it loses its purity. I don't know...
PeterSidorkiewicz
HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion
Shareefruck
Registered User
I've come to the opposite conclusion, and that's why I think the things I do
I used to like this kind of thing when I was younger and only casually aware of movies, but I've come to think that this way is way more rewarding overall, personally (and it makes me happier-- for me, honest and uncompromising distaste towards things that are fake crystallizes appreciation for things that are true and real, if that makes sense).
I have nothing against silly or slapstick or child-like, or nonsensical (in fact, when it's done well I prefer it and probably hold it in higher regard than the other thing-- it's harder to do right and rarer for someone to be able to do it), but even spontaneous lunacy can be done a right way and a wrong way, in conditions that are perfect or imperfect.
I mentioned Monty Python (especially the series). It's completely ludicrous, bat-**** crazy, silly, takes a **** out of stuffy bookish pretention, but it's still done note perfectly in a wonderfully thought out way (it's MORE silly/nonsensical and MORE spontaneous than the type of cheap comedy we're talking about). It's completely liberating and childish and infectious in the best way possible, but you don't turn off your brain, you appreciate that every aspect of it works as well as it possibly could, while also being psychotic/nonsensical. Same with a perfect Norm MacDonald joke. It's stupid but it's BRILLIANTLY stupid, well conceived/executed, and holds up on every level.
Appreciating the bad kind of thing you need to turn your brain off for is just a spit in the face to spontaneous, silly stuff that actually works on every level, IMO.
No, I hated the Hangover. The premise is okay, but the movie stunk, IMO. Out of THOSE types of movies (that usually involve that group of comedic actors), I liked Walk Hard best, but again, you don't need to turn off your brain and be non-critical-- it holds up while being no less silly and irreverent. The ones that don't hold up don't need to be excused by being held to a lesser standard, IMO. That seems like completely backwards-*** thinking to me, trading in long term genuine joys for short term hollow joys.
No personal offense or anything. I can see the argument for "You'll be easier to be around for other people and never be objectionable/avoid conflicts if you thought this way" (although I think that sounds like a pretty soul-deadening way to live life), but I cannot stress how much I fundamentally disagree with the idea that it improves the appreciation/experience of entertainment to trick yourself into liking the cheap stuff by having a blindly positive and forgiving attitude.
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izzy
go
I think a lot of that has to do with having the time to develop the characters. That's why a lot of TV Comedies are usually said to have a weaker 1st season but the next 2-4 seasons are usually the best (Seinfeld, Parks and Rec, The Office, IASIP and so on)
I've come to the opposite conclusion, and that's why I think the things I do
I used to like this kind of thing when I was younger and only casually aware of movies, but I've come to think that this way is way more rewarding overall, personally (and it makes me happier-- for me, honest and uncompromising distaste towards things that are fake crystallizes appreciation for things that are true and real, if that makes sense).
I have nothing against silly or slapstick or child-like, or nonsensical (in fact, when it's done well I prefer it and probably hold it in higher regard than the other thing-- it's harder to do right and rarer for someone to be able to do it), but even spontaneous lunacy can be done a right way and a wrong way, in conditions that are perfect or imperfect.
I mentioned Monty Python (especially the series). It's completely ludicrous, bat-**** crazy, silly, takes a **** out of stuffy bookish pretention, but it's still done note perfectly in a wonderfully thought out way (it's MORE silly/nonsensical and MORE spontaneous than the type of cheap comedy we're talking about). It's completely liberating and childish and infectious in the best way possible, but you don't turn off your brain, you appreciate that every aspect of it works as well as it possibly could, while also being psychotic/nonsensical. Same with a perfect Norm MacDonald joke. It's stupid but it's BRILLIANTLY stupid, well conceived/executed, and holds up on every level.
Appreciating the bad kind of thing you need to turn your brain off for is just a spit in the face to spontaneous, silly stuff that actually works on every level, IMO.
No, I hated the Hangover. The premise is okay, but the movie stunk, IMO. Out of THOSE types of movies (that usually involve that group of comedic actors), I liked Walk Hard best, but again, you don't need to turn off your brain and be non-critical-- it holds up while being no less silly and irreverent. The ones that don't hold up don't need to be excused by being held to a lesser standard, IMO. That seems like completely backwards-*** thinking to me, trading in long term genuine joys for short term hollow joys.
No personal offense or anything. I can see the argument for "You'll be easier to be around for other people and never be objectionable/avoid conflicts if you thought this way" (although I think that sounds like a pretty soul-deadening way to live life), but I cannot stress how much I fundamentally disagree with the idea that it improves the appreciation/experience of entertainment to trick yourself into liking the cheap stuff by having a blindly positive and forgiving attitude.
I hear you, and I understand your way. And intellectually without question it's more rewarding. I'm not suggesting you change your ideology completely, just expand your sense of humor/comedic range of "funny" things in that 1 aspect of life. I know it may not be easy or possible, but it generally makes people happier, even if "hollowly"/"superficially" temporarily happier. You can keep every other aspect of you the same.
. Albeit, forced blind optimism will likely make anyone a happier person. Not saying "appreciate" stuff more, but emotionally be happier. Just as another question: You've never turned your brain off or not "overanalyzed"/"overcritiqued" while watching a movie or tv show? I do it all the time when I know I'm walking into something a friend or family member wants to see/likes and isn't my cup of tea. Think of it that way maybe? That pre-watching "low standards set"/"brain off"/"2nd hand-empathetic liking or enjoyment" makes me enjoy things much much more given the circumstances and even find the silver linings in stuff.
WarriorOfGandhi
Was saying Boo-urns
my all-time favorite comedy is Spaceballs. I love it because it refuses to take itself seriously, frequently breaking the 4th wall and taking the time to mock its own plot, actors, director, and audience. Every single character is funny in a unique way. Each joke is as perfectly timed as you could ask for. There's a mixture of comedy that runs from plain stupid to surprisingly high-brow.
Nemesis Prime
Registered User
I don't really look for anything in particular when it comes to comedy. As long as it's not eye rolling levels of pretentious I'll watch it.
I would say that my mood and whether I'm alone vs with friends influence what kind of comedy I watch for the most part.
With friends, dumb stuff like Step Brothers, Strange Wilderness, Blue Mountain State, The League etc is awesome because it's just non-stop hilarious **** without too much thought required.
If I'm watching tv on my own, I usually prefer something a bit more thought provoking or more carefully-crafted like Curb Your Enthusiasm, Louie, Silicon Valley etc.
There is some comedy though that kind of exists in both worlds, that I can enjoy watching with friends or on my own, like It's Always Sunny.
At the end of the day, I don't tend to care as much about comedy as I do TV dramas, and I find that while carefully crafted, thought-provoking comedy is more "obviously" rewarding than dumb/slapstick comedy, watching some utter non-sense for some gut-busting laughs can be rewarding too, where you just settle in and relax and don't have to be too invested in what happens.
With friends, dumb stuff like Step Brothers, Strange Wilderness, Blue Mountain State, The League etc is awesome because it's just non-stop hilarious **** without too much thought required.
If I'm watching tv on my own, I usually prefer something a bit more thought provoking or more carefully-crafted like Curb Your Enthusiasm, Louie, Silicon Valley etc.
There is some comedy though that kind of exists in both worlds, that I can enjoy watching with friends or on my own, like It's Always Sunny.
At the end of the day, I don't tend to care as much about comedy as I do TV dramas, and I find that while carefully crafted, thought-provoking comedy is more "obviously" rewarding than dumb/slapstick comedy, watching some utter non-sense for some gut-busting laughs can be rewarding too, where you just settle in and relax and don't have to be too invested in what happens.
Shareefruck
Registered User
This is getting oddly personal/philosophical/psychological, but okay.I hear you, and I understand your way. And intellectually without question it's more rewarding. I'm not suggesting you change your ideology completely, just expand your sense of humor/comedic range of "funny" things in that 1 aspect of life. I know it may not be easy or possible, but it generally makes people happier, even if "hollowly"/"superficially" temporarily happier. You can keep every other aspect of you the same.
The tricky thing is, there is no such thing as literally turning your brain off, so it's hard to know that we're talking about the exact same thing. You can be relaxed while you watch something and still remain critical, honest, and uncompromising in how you actually feel about it, rather than actively looking for things to intellectually criticize (believe it or not, I'm doing the former and not the latter, and it's not an exhausting/strenuous thing). You can be physically exhausted and just treat it as background noise and have an aww shucks who cares attitude about it, which basically means you may as well not have watched it at all (this is what I do when I'm forced to do something I don't like for a social reason-- just completely zone it out and treat it like a random dream). Or you can have that "The Secret" principle of "If you visualize yourself liking something and convince yourself you're some other person, then you'll like it and be happy!" self-delusion-with-the-intention-of-protecting-yourself-from-possible-disappointment thing that people seem to do, which I do have a problem with. I hate that self-help culture that's so prominent right now.
It's really not the worst thing in the world to temporarily be in an negative place. Your life doesn't need to be bombarded by a never-ending supply of nothing but happy moments. Your life isn't in desperate need of an instant cure just because you're having an unpleasant experience. Sometimes it can be an oddly gratifying and liberating feeling to be honest with how you really feel about something-- even if it's hateful, it can be humanizing and give better perspective for when you do like something. I'd sincerely rather have that feeling than the hollow/superficial happiness that you're talking about-- who needs it, who wants that?-- I sure don't. It's sort of a masturbatory vice and nothing more. And in a weird way, it actually feels unpleasant after the fact.
I would argue that there's a bit of an unavoidable trade-off when you try to have a temporarily positive attitude of everything, anyways-- you can't ACTUALLY keep everything the same but just improve that one negative consequence that gives things a sense of balance. The sweet things don't feel as sweet if everything is just great-diddly-ate all the time no matter what. I'd rather have that erratically bi-polar flow chart with untouchable peaks than a boring straight line of pleasant. If you demand the straight line and you still want the same peaks, that sounds impossible and kind of perversely greedy to me.
I can empathetically enjoy how much of a good time other people are having with something that I'm not, second-hand, but that's not the same thing as enjoying the thing itself. That's more about enjoying company in general-- it really has nothing to do with the movie, and you can do it with just about anything.
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Ozz
Registered User
This is getting oddly personal/philosophical/psychological, but okay.
The tricky thing is, there is no such thing as literally turning your brain off, so it's hard to know that we're talking about the exact same thing. You can be relaxed while you watch something and still remain critical, honest, and uncompromising in how you actually feel about it, rather than actively looking for things to intellectually criticize (believe it or not, I'm doing the former and not the latter, and it's not an exhausting/strenuous thing). You can be physically exhausted and just treat it as background noise and have an aww shucks who cares attitude about it, which basically means you may as well not have watched it at all (this is what I do when I'm forced to do something I don't like for a social reason-- just completely zone it out and treat it like a random dream). Or you can have that "The Secret" principle of "If you visualize yourself liking something and convince yourself you're some other person, then you'll like it and be happy!" self-delusion-with-the-intention-of-protecting-yourself-from-possible-disappointment thing that people seem to do, which I do have a problem with. I hate that self-help culture that's so prominent right now.
It's really not the worst thing in the world to temporarily be in an negative place. Your life doesn't need to be bombarded by a never-ending supply of nothing but happy moments. Your life isn't in desperate need of an instant cure just because you're having an unpleasant experience. Sometimes it can be an oddly gratifying and liberating feeling to be honest with how you really feel about something-- even if it's hateful, it can be humanizing and give better perspective for when you do like something. I'd sincerely rather have that feeling than the hollow/superficial happiness that you're talking about-- who needs it, who wants that?-- I sure don't. It's sort of a masturbatory vice and nothing more. And in a weird way, it actually feels unpleasant after the fact.
I would argue that there's a bit of an unavoidable trade-off when you try to have a temporarily positive attitude of everything, anyways-- you can't ACTUALLY keep everything the same but just improve that one negative consequence that gives things a sense of balance. The sweet things don't feel as sweet if everything is just great-diddly-ate all the time no matter what. I'd rather have that erratically bi-polar flow chart with untouchable peaks than a boring straight line of pleasant. If you demand the straight line and you still want the same peaks, that sounds impossible and kind of perversely greedy to me.
I can empathetically enjoy how much of a good time other people are having with something that I'm not, second-hand, but that's not the same thing as enjoying the thing itself. That's more about enjoying company in general-- it really has nothing to do with the movie, and you can do it with just about anything.
I see what you're saying, and to each his own here. I understand what you mean/do and why you do it. I just think you don't fully comprehend what I'm saying, or maybe what I do for instance. It's more of a matter of "personal growth" than a 2ndary/live through your friend thing, it's not a careless/exhausted thing either. I think the bolded above is as close to what I mean for this, albeit take away all the judgment and just look for the positives/things you like, even if only a little. No ambivalence at all. It's getting out of your comfort zone, but nixing the negativity/uncomfortable experience as you state above. Call it a coping mechanism, but I call it a growth mechanism. You don't feel or experience the negative, you just see neutral and positive. I don't know if it's different from what you are saying/thinking or we just are having slightly different perspectives on it. I think at minimum it's a different mindset/mental point of view/attitude. Again, if you like feeling the negative and living through it, be my guest. But I much prefer this method than "experiencing the pain, the negativity, the sorrow, the stress" of such things in this context. We are getting too philosophical.
WarriorOfGandhi
Was saying Boo-urns
Shareefruck
Registered User
I don't think there's too much confusion here either way. That sounds exactly like what I thought I was responding to, maybe even the worst version of it, because it's starting to sound like you're literally preaching that self-help-book "positive thinking" mentality.I see what you're saying, and to each his own here. I understand what you mean/do and why you do it. I just think you don't fully comprehend what I'm saying, or maybe what I do for instance. It's more of a matter of "personal growth" than a 2ndary/live through your friend thing, it's not a careless/exhausted thing either. I think the bolded above is as close to what I mean for this, albeit take away all the judgment and just look for the positives/things you like, even if only a little. No ambivalence at all. It's getting out of your comfort zone, but nixing the negativity/uncomfortable experience as you state above. Call it a coping mechanism, but I call it a growth mechanism. You don't feel or experience the negative, you just see neutral and positive. I don't know if it's different from what you are saying/thinking or we just are having slightly different perspectives on it. I think at minimum it's a different mindset/mental point of view/attitude. Again, if you like feeling the negative and living through it, be my guest. But I much prefer this method than "experiencing the pain, the negativity, the sorrow, the stress" of such things in this context. We are getting too philosophical.
To me, that's an argument for wanting to see the world through rose-colored glasses out of fear of disappointment as a way to avoid facing negative realities. The issue isn't that it would be a difficult change, the issue is that I find that to be an outright objectionable way of being. I think it's much more rewarding, humanizing, and honest to see things for what they are, feel the full range of emotions, and realize that having negative reactions where appropriate (in all aspects of life, not just something as harmless as this) is a feature, not a bug. I don't seek comfort/escape from it that badly, nor would I want to.
Considering the fundamental area that we're disagreeing on here, I don't think we're going to be able to make much headway on this one.
Almost reminds me of religion-related arguments.
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Shareefruck
Registered User
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