Collapse of the PAC-12: Oregon State & Washington State left in the dust

[The Marquis]

The leadership of the MWC made a huge error in judgment by playing a merger and future scheduling alliance too hard. They took advantage of desperate schools to start, and when they came back for more, instead of working with them, they made it easier for them to use their own name value (both as schools and as a conference) and then poach the best schools. The MWC should have seen this coming and make a merger as easy as possible under the Pac-12 banner. I'm sure this is really about the leadership of the MW looking to preserve their own jobs, because "what happens then?" is a good question for them to ask... but I'd think there'd be a place.

At any rate, Utah State is as "meh" as it gets. I'd rather have seen the Montana's and/or Dakota's than Utah State. Frankly the only remaining MWC schools I'm interested in are Air Force and UNLV. If you snag one of them, you're safe as a conference and can get creative otherwise.

 

[GKJ]

The leadership of the MWC made a huge error in judgment by playing a merger and future scheduling alliance too hard. They took advantage of desperate schools to start, and when they came back for more, instead of working with them, they made it easier for them to use their own name value (both as schools and as a conference) and then poach the best schools. The MWC should have seen this coming and make a merger as easy as possible under the Pac-12 banner. I'm sure this is really about the leadership of the MW looking to preserve their own jobs, because "what happens then?" is a good question for them to ask... but I'd think there'd be a place.

At any rate, Utah State is as "meh" as it gets. I'd rather have seen the Montana's and/or Dakota's than Utah State. Frankly the only remaining MWC schools I'm interested in are Air Force and UNLV. If you snag one of them, you're safe as a conference and can get creative otherwise.

Don’t think the Dakotas have large enough stadiums to move up.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Don’t think the Dakotas have large enough stadiums to move up.

They do. The NCAA ditched the attendance minimum, but both schools already had large enough stadiums even with that restriction in place. They both play in stadiums slightly larger than San Jose State's, with SDSU's being built with expansion in mind.

There's not a whole hell of a lot that Utah State does that Montana can't. They don't even have a larger stadium, to say nothing of selling it out every game. This isn't helping the complete lack of buzz coming out of Missoula, though I think it's safe to say that trusting any AD at this point in time is a fool's errand.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://sports.yahoo.com/unlv-air-force-to-stay-in-mountain-west-with-financial-incentives-amid-pac-12-realignment-040224278.html

Staying in MW

 

[BKarchitect]

So PAC2.0 and MWC both stuck at 7 and need to add a program each to be viable in the future?

I know some have said the MWC screwed up by not trying to merge but it seems to me the PAC leadership are the ones who really overestimated their brand value. They’ll add UTEP or whoever to get to 8, but it seems to me they overplayed their hand and this is not exactly what they had in mind. No AAC schools, no Air Force, no UNLV and just a struggle to get to that magic 8 number. It’s the better of the two Western conferences but not so much immeasurably better that they can tout themselves as some sort “in-between” P5/G5 conference. It’s just the stronger regional G6 now.

Which, outside of Wazzu and Oregon State unfortunately dropping down a level - is probably not a bad thing. Two solid, regional Division I football conferences in the Western U.S. seems perfectly fine and sensible, knowing we can’t go back to the way things used to be.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

With the remaining MW members committing to the conference, the Pac-12 may have to lobby the NCAA to change the rules so that 8 members is not the minimum, but 7 is. No other school from the G5 is attractive to the Pac-12. Though I could see NMSU and UTEP in the MW soon.

 

[BKarchitect]

With the remaining MW members committing to the conference, the Pac-12 may have to lobby the NCAA to change the rules so that 8 members is not the minimum, but 7 is. No other school from the G5 is attractive to the Pac-12. Though I could see NMSU and UTEP in the MW soon.

Why would the NCAA change its rules for the PAC 2.0? Beggars can’t be choosers. Plenty of schools will be seem attractive to a conference that had to lobby hard just to get Utah State and absolutely needs an additional member to meet a conference threshold.

At this point, this isn’t about trying to re-create some watered down version of the 5th power conference with only the very best national programs from what is left in the G5. That ship has sailed. This is simply surviving as a good regional G5 conference.

 

[GKJ]

MWC is apparently looking at Northern Illinois and Toledo as football-only members.

 

[BKarchitect]

MWC is apparently looking at Northern Illinois and Toledo as football-only members.

Just no. Hell no. MACtion has been one of the constants in all of this crazy, messed up re-alignment over the past 30 years. Leave it alone!

 

[Big McLargehuge]

If the Mountain West raids the one stable conference, who isn't even in its geographical footprint, rather than looking to better FCS programs within its footprint I think we can just go ahead and burn the NCAA down.

 

[Blue and Green]

So PAC2.0 and MWC both stuck at 7 and need to add a program each to be viable in the future?

I know some have said the MWC screwed up by not trying to merge but it seems to me the PAC leadership are the ones who really overestimated their brand value. They’ll add UTEP or whoever to get to 8, but it seems to me they overplayed their hand and this is not exactly what they had in mind. No AAC schools, no Air Force, no UNLV and just a struggle to get to that magic 8 number. It’s the better of the two Western conferences but not so much immeasurably better that they can tout themselves as some sort “in-between” P5/G5 conference. It’s just the stronger regional G6 now.

Which, outside of Wazzu and Oregon State unfortunately dropping down a level - is probably not a bad thing. Two solid, regional Division I football conferences in the Western U.S. seems perfectly fine and sensible, knowing we can’t go back to the way things used to be.

MWC has to add two schools. Hawaii is football-only and the minimum of eight applies to full members only.

I agree that WSU and OSU overestimated the Pac brand value-- the schools that created that value are gone-- but I also think that the MWC leadership overestimated its leverage in negotiations with WSU and OSU. The gap between the current Pac schools and the remaining MWC schools is substantial enough that the Pac is definitely better positioned for adding solid programs in the future.

I pay attention to it rather peripherally now. What's happened in the last few years has pretty much ended my interest in college sports. And I suspect that some schools are going to regret losing theregional aspect of their scheduling/rivalries/travel.

 

[Blue and Green]

The leadership of the MWC made a huge error in judgment by playing a merger and future scheduling alliance too hard. They took advantage of desperate schools to start, and when they came back for more, instead of working with them, they made it easier for them to use their own name value (both as schools and as a conference) and then poach the best schools. The MWC should have seen this coming and make a merger as easy as possible under the Pac-12 banner. I'm sure this is really about the leadership of the MW looking to preserve their own jobs, because "what happens then?" is a good question for them to ask... but I'd think there'd be a place.

At any rate, Utah State is as "meh" as it gets. I'd rather have seen the Montana's and/or Dakota's than Utah State. Frankly the only remaining MWC schools I'm interested in are Air Force and UNLV. If you snag one of them, you're safe as a conference and can get creative otherwise.

Utah State is a much bigger school than any of the Montana/Dakota schools, is FBS and in a 3x-4x more populous state with one respectable TV market (SLC).

 

[The Marquis]

Utah State is a much bigger school than any of the Montana/Dakota schools, is FBS and in a 3x-4x more populous state with one respectable TV market (SLC).

You aren't wrong. My point really revolved around Utah State being the 3rd most popular program in their relatively small to mid-sized market, so instead I'd prefer opting for creating a top program in a smaller market. It will be good for them to have Utah as a state in the Pac's market again, but everybody knows Utah and BYU take a majority of the eyeballs unless Utah State really makes a statement.

 

[Blue and Green]

You aren't wrong. My point really revolved around Utah State being the 3rd most popular program in their relatively small to mid-sized market, so instead I'd prefer opting for creating a top program in a smaller market. It will be good for them to have Utah as a state in the Pac's market again, but everybody knows Utah and BYU take a majority of the eyeballs unless Utah State really makes a statement.

They just aren't big enough schools and they aren't in high-growth areas so there's no reason to believe that any of them could grow into the type of institution that the Pac wants.

 

[Blue and Green]

With the remaining MW members committing to the conference, the Pac-12 may have to lobby the NCAA to change the rules so that 8 members is not the minimum, but 7 is. No other school from the G5 is attractive to the Pac-12. Though I could see NMSU and UTEP in the MW soon.

It will be easy enough for the Pac to get an eighth member for 2026. WSU and OSU have already succeeded in terms of what they really had to do: poach the best of the MWC to create the clear #1 western regional conference.

 

[Chileiceman]

They need to set their egos aside and merge already. Get Gonzaga and St Marys as basketball schools. At that point the new PAC is easily the top G5 conference. It also creates some depth for when down the road OSU or WSU get poached by a P4.

 

[PCSPounder]

On other boards, Utah is a massively growing market. Here it’s not growing. Um… no.

Doesn’t mean Utah State helped the Pac. In fact what the Pac got with the four original departing Mountain West schools were the three biggest brands, in generally growing markets (especially the Central Valley, though Fort Collins isn’t far off), who spend the most money on football and have had recent stadium upgrades or altogether new stadiums. They’re not close-to-average Mountain West schools. And contrary to a lot of ignoramuses out there, your directional school is almost certainly not better than Oregon State or Washington State.

They’ll manage with Utah State and, from the sound of things, try to manage with Texas State while keeping much more quiet this round. Meanwhile, Gloria Nevarez is getting a little loud trying to bring in MAC schools.

Oh, as for Chileiceman’s comment, the course of action for the Pac is to get one football school AND Gonzaga OR merge and forget you ever bothered with Gonzaga. Gonzaga wants football revenue without the football, the Pac is still a better path to that, but there’s still too many mouths to feed in the MWC. Gonzaga makes too much money from WCC tournament credits to jump to the Mountain West. A Pac making at least $8 million per school per year pencils out a bit better for the Zags. Even then… listened to an Oregonian podcast tonight where a reported spoke the wiser truth. That is… much like she will only believe Portland will get MLB when the contracts are signed, she will only believe Gonzaga will move when Gonzaga actually signs and not a moment before.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Texas State has received an offer from the MW.

If the MW wanted to expand into Texas, they really should consider UTEP instead. The C-USA of today is not the C-USA UTEP joined nearly 20 years ago, UTEP currently being C-USA's longest serving school. UTEP would probably love to renew what ever pre-1999 WAC rivalries it can, and I'm sure they would want New Mexico State to join the MW with them, because it would mark the first time in over 70 years that UNM, NMSU, and UTEP were in the same conference together (Border Conference).

 

[PCSPounder]

Texas State has received an offer from the MW.

If the MW wanted to expand into Texas, they really should consider UTEP instead. The C-USA of today is not the C-USA UTEP joined nearly 20 years ago, UTEP currently being C-USA's longest serving school. UTEP would probably love to renew what ever pre-1999 WAC rivalries it can, and I'm sure they would want New Mexico State to join the MW with them, because it would mark the first time in over 70 years that UNM, NMSU, and UTEP were in the same conference together (Border Conference).

El Paso is “west of Texas while technically being in Texas.” Which is to say that, when it comes to potential viewers and recruiting, UTEP isn’t the Texas we’re thinking of. It’s basically a New Mexico extension.

That being said, when things shake out, UTEP probably will head to the MWC. They’re an inexpensive get.

 

[End of Line]

MWC is apparently looking at Northern Illinois and Toledo as football-only members.

No f***ing thank you. Leave the MAC schools alone. Let that conference be the one bright spot of staying together.

 

[GKJ]

No f***ing thank you. Leave the MAC schools alone. Let that conference be the one bright spot of staying together.

I could see Northern Illinois moving, but not to the mountain west

 

[BKarchitect]

It was inevitable but it’s crazy now how the entire realignment madness has now enveloped the G5’s.

To be sure, the FBS content at that level has been in flux as long as the power conferences, both in response to moves those conferences have made and with new members entering the FBS division and even some deck chair swapping within the G5 level.

But there at least seemed a bit rationality to it. The PAC imploding has created chaos in the G5 ranks that smells a lot like everything happening in the P5.

- Conferences not coming to terms on a merging and now at each other's throats legally.
- Schools being paid huge (relatively) sums to stay (temporarily) put.
- Non-power regional conferences now trying to expand a thousand+ miles away from anything they currently have nationally to build as much inventory as possible.

 

[End of Line]

I could see Northern Illinois moving, but not to the mountain west

Maybe to the AAC. But the Ohio MAC schools are all attached to the hip.

 

[GKJ]

Maybe to the AAC. But the Ohio MAC schools are all attached to the hip.

That’s how I see it. They should be good enough for that.