Confirmed with Link: [COL, CAR, CHI] Rantanen-Hall to CAR, Necas-Drury-25 2nd-26 4th to COL, Chi 25 3rd to Chi (Ret 50% on Mikko)

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I mean he was an integral apart of the core that won a cup... Obviously not the singular most important. But as far as the core goes it went Mack/Makar and then Mikko.
Yeah... well Long Beach Native Matt Nieto and the cup dinger, Nicolas Aube-Kubel were equally important. They were both able to skate without falling down (except for when NAK had the cup in his hands.)
 
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I think some people are just huge Mikko fans, and I don't really want to take that away from them.

But the fact is, the Avs are a better team today and will be for the foreseeable future with Necas instead of Mikko. I honestly feel bad on some level for the dude... but you have to remember... this is what he ASKED for and WANTED. The Avs gave him a deal that would have made him the highest paid winger in the league. He turned it down. He's got nobody but himself to blame for the mess he is in or the shit contract he's going to get. Don't get me wrong...he's still going to be making bank (players on league minimum are making bank compared to me and probably most of us here), but don't think for a second he hasn't cost himself a lot of money already.

Since Mikko has left the Avs he's been in free-fall. Necas hasn't been though? Why? I think heart, conditioning, and effort are the three primary reasons. Mikko was a stud. But Mikko became a one-trick pony. His trick is an absolute world beater, but that's what he brings to the table. He doesn't bring a forecheck, he doesn't bring a backcheck, he doesn't bring a pickpocket, he doesn't bring success from battles along the board. What he does is finish one-timers placed perfectly on his stick like a damned champion. But no team can afford to pay him what he wants for that one thing only. Mikko was wasting a good 10-14 of his 22 minutes a night doing absolutely nothing but coasting around trying not to fall.

I'm not sure if it was him or his agent... but somebody miscalculated big time here.

Personally, Mikko was only my 6th or 7th favorite Av in recent times, and I understood why they traded him, and didn't think they could build a contending team with another $12M+ salary. That's all totally reasonable IMO.

I'm not directing this towards you or anyone else, but my reason for taking issue with the commentary about this, is that we've treated him as bad if not worse than we treated Val for choosing to party, over making sure he's clean and available to help the team in the playoffs. Twice.

We didn't treat Burakovsky this badly for playing lazier hockey than Mikko and wanting more money than he's worth. We didn't treat Grubauer this poorly after wanting more money and saying the Avs window was closed. The only players we treated like this are Val and Duchene. Which doesn't seem fair to me.

Objectively, there seems to really only be two reasons people are upset with Mikko.

1) He might have taken his foot off the gas slightly the last couple years, while still producing at a 40+ goal 100+ point pace.

2) He wanted to be paid close to, or exactly what Nate made at $12.6M, when his market value at the time was probably in the $13M+ range.

Is that really a reason to pile on a guy every day who we cheered for over a decade, helped us win a Stanley Cup, was one of the all time great Avalanche players, always seemed like a very nice dude who was very welcoming to fans, and a possible Hall of Famer?

I just wish instead of the "f*** Mikko Rantanen" kind of commentary it was more along the lines of "We couldn't afford you, thanks for everything you did, we wish you luck" just like it is for most players, let alone all time greats on a team that parted over business reasons. It wasn't even his decision to leave.
 
Then he's his own issue. In his mind, he's a god-damned legend. He's not. He's not a dawg like Nate, Nuke or Lehky. He's a one-shot pony and if his agent allowed him to believe he was worth more, his agent was doing him no favors.

At the end of the day, Mikko thought he was worth a hell of a lot more than he is. I hope he has a good and long career, but I am just truly relieved that neither he or his future cap requests/demands are the Avs problem to deal with. His play has been declining for two straight years, points be damned. It's like we're playing shorthanded everytime he's on the ice unless someone can manage to find him actually alone on a cross-ice saucer pass to the right circle that lands squarely on his stick. Dude should not be making a penny more on his next contract than he does on his current one. 9.25M is more than enough for a power-play specialist who hurts you by being absent 5v5.

Damn, much like with Bednar, I need to chill on Mikko... he's not even here anymore. I just hate seeing folks still moping about for his sorry ass.
He's losing a lot of money. He looks like a PTO candidate
 
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Yeah, I checked Natural Stat Trick. Those were xGF stats AvsCOL posted. That's obviously going to drop away from Nate.

I was looking for actual prodcution, because I remember him producing well with Nate out of the lineup a couple years ago, and I'm also curious about what Nate's production is like away from Mikko.

Can't seem to find WOWY production stats publicly. Thanks though.
 
Huh...

Sure.. if you want to view '22 as CMac building a team around Mikko, knock yourself out. I can't help you.

But if you actually believe he was one of the two or three most important pieces... you're as helpless as I am when it comes to understanding the game of hockey. This was a team with Nate, Cale, Toews, Nuke, Kadri (playing like the world was burning and he was going to damn sure get his share), Lehky popping game winners left and right.

Tell me where you put Rants in with those guys? You have him above them? I can see some folks putting him in the mix, but to say he was core above any of those guys would be something I can't agree to.

Mikko lucked into coming into the league when RFAs first started to get paid. His greedment forced an unpleasant contract negotiation his first time around. Once the Avs made him an offer to make him the highest paid winger in league history and he turned it down... I just don't even understand why folks are still bringing this bums name up here. f*** him.
That's just it , Mikko was the 6th or so most important player on the Avs.
 
That's just it , Mikko was the 6th or so most important player on the Avs.

I don't think that's true. I don't know if there's a realistic way to compare him to a D man like Toews, but the Avs are still in a playoff spot without Val for most of the season, and without a real 2C like Kadri.

Same is true without their captain who is crucially important to this team.

They didn't really replace any of those guys either.

Take Mikko out of the lineup all year without replacing him with someone like Necas, and I doubt they're in a playoff spot. The team relied on his offensive production too much.

He was the 3rd most important player on the team IMO.
 
I don't think that's true. I don't know if there's a realistic way to compare him to a D man like Toews, but the Avs are still in a playoff spot without Val for most of the season, and without a real 2C like Kadri.

Same is true without their captain who is crucially important to this team.

They didn't really replace any of those guys either.

Take Mikko out of the lineup all year without replacing him with someone like Necas, and I doubt they're in a playoff spot.

He was the 3rd most important player on the team IMO.
When Nuke plays he's far more important as is Landy.
 
Personally, Mikko was only my 6th or 7th favorite Av in recent times, and I understood why they traded him, and didn't think they could build a contending team with another $12M+ salary. That's all totally reasonable IMO.

I'm not directing this towards you or anyone else, but my reason for taking issue with the commentary about this, is that we've treated him as bad if not worse than we treated Val for choosing to party, over making sure he's clean and available to help the team in the playoffs. Twice.

We didn't treat Burakovsky this badly for playing lazier hockey than Mikko and wanting more money than he's worth. We didn't treat Grubauer this poorly after wanting more money and saying the Avs window was closed. The only players we treated like this are Val and Duchene. Which doesn't seem fair to me.

Objectively, there seems to really only be two reasons people are upset with Mikko.

1) He might have taken his foot off the gas slightly the last couple years, while still producing at a 40+ goal 100+ point pace.

2) He wanted to be paid close to, or exactly what Nate made at $12.6M, when his market value at the time was probably in the $13M+ range.

Is that really a reason to pile on a guy every day who we cheered for over a decade, helped us win a Stanley Cup, was one of the all time great Avalanche players, always seemed like a very nice dude who was very welcoming to fans, and a possible Hall of Famer?

I just wish instead of the "f*** Mikko Rantanen" kind of commentary it was more along the lines of "We couldn't afford you, thanks for everything you did, we wish you luck" just like it is for most players, let alone all time greats on a team that parted over business reasons. It wasn't even his decision to leave.
None of those players were asking for Nathan MacKinnon money either. Mikko alone did that. And he was absolutely stupid for doing so.
 
He's losing a lot of money. He looks like a PTO candidate
I wouldn't go that far.. but he's looking a pretty far bit off of what I'd be comfortable with paying 12 million f***ing dollars for 7 or 8 years.

The dude has awesome value, if he learns his place in the world. Until then, he can f*** off.
 
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When Nuke plays he's far more important as is Landy.

I agree they're important, but they're on their way to making the playoffs three years in a row with Landy playing 0 games in that time, and Val playing 53, 54, and 21 games. And they didn't replace them.

Do you think they make the playoffs with Mikko playing that little or not at all over a full season without replacing him? I just don't see it. They were too reliant on his and Nate's offense as it is.
 
None of those players were asking for Nathan MacKinnon money either. Mikko alone did that. And he was absolutely stupid for doing so.

Disagree. That's what Mikko's value was. The cap was going to be much higher than when Nate signed.

When Nate signed his $12.6M deal it was 15.09% of an $83.5M cap. If Mikko signed for the same $12.6M, it would be 13.19% under next year's $95.5M cap.

Not to mention his contract has to factor in the recent knowledge that the cap will take huge jumps to $104M, and $113.5M, the two years after that. Nate and his agent didn't have that info two years ago.

We can wish he would have taken less, but realistically that's asking him to turn down like $10M+. $20M if people think he should have signed for $9-10M or so. Not sure many if any here would do that.
 
Personally, Mikko was only my 6th or 7th favorite Av in recent times, and I understood why they traded him, and didn't think they could build a contending team with another $12M+ salary. That's all totally reasonable IMO.

I'm not directing this towards you or anyone else, but my reason for taking issue with the commentary about this, is that we've treated him as bad if not worse than we treated Val for choosing to party, over making sure he's clean and available to help the team in the playoffs. Twice.

We didn't treat Burakovsky this badly for playing lazier hockey than Mikko and wanting more money than he's worth. We didn't treat Grubauer this poorly after wanting more money and saying the Avs window was closed. The only players we treated like this are Val and Duchene. Which doesn't seem fair to me.

Objectively, there seems to really only be two reasons people are upset with Mikko.

1) He might have taken his foot off the gas slightly the last couple years, while still producing at a 40+ goal 100+ point pace.

2) He wanted to be paid close to, or exactly what Nate made at $12.6M, when his market value at the time was probably in the $13M+ range.

Is that really a reason to pile on a guy every day who we cheered for over a decade, helped us win a Stanley Cup, was one of the all time great Avalanche players, always seemed like a very nice dude who was very welcoming to fans, and a possible Hall of Famer?

I just wish instead of the "f*** Mikko Rantanen" kind of commentary it was more along the lines of "We couldn't afford you, thanks for everything you did, we wish you luck" just like it is for most players, let alone all time greats on a team that parted over business reasons. It wasn't even his decision to leave.
Seriously? f*** off.

Last I checked this was the Avalanche section of hfboards, not the Mikko section. If Mikko wanted to be a part of OUR team, he would be. The fact is, he thought he was better than us. Got traded and his value is sinking by the moment because he doesn't have Nate and Cale proping him up.

Mikko was incredibly valuable to the Avs. He was also paid better than most RFAs ever could have hoped during that time period. Now that he is slowing down, and I do believe nobody is suggesting he isn't, he's asking for more money than Nate.

Look, this isn't me saying Mikko sucks donkey balls. This is just me saying he's no where near worth 12M a year. There is a huge difference between being worthy of a 9-10M a year deal and being trash. I've never suggested Mikko is trash. I've just suggested that it would be suicide for a GM to pay him the kind of money he thinks he is worth.
 
f*** the lot of ya!

segway driveby.gif



Except Marty obviously
 
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I don't think that's true. I don't know if there's a realistic way to compare him to a D man like Toews, but the Avs are still in a playoff spot without Val for most of the season, and without a real 2C like Kadri.

Same is true without their captain who is crucially important to this team.

They didn't really replace any of those guys either.

Take Mikko out of the lineup all year without replacing him with someone like Necas, and I doubt they're in a playoff spot. The team relied on his offensive production too much.

He was the 3rd most important player on the team IMO.
And they are getting better without Mikko. Necas has added something that has been missing terribly... a winger that can control play and drive it. Setting aside Mikko's one-timer... when the f*** has he ever played the game 200' like Necas does?

I get you love the dude. I certainly did when he was performing to a level comiserate with his performance. You seem to completely keep backstepping from the fact that this is what Mikko wanted. Mikko did not want to play for the Avs for 12M a year. I respect your love of the guy, but man... he's just not that into you.
 
Seriously? f*** off.

Last I checked this was the Avalanche section of hfboards, not the Mikko section. If Mikko wanted to be a part of OUR team, he would be. The fact is, he thought he was better than us. Got traded and his value is sinking by the moment because he doesn't have Nate and Cale proping him up.

Mikko was incredibly valuable to the Avs. He was also paid better than most RFAs ever could have hoped during that time period. Now that he is slowing down, and I do believe nobody is suggesting he isn't, he's asking for more money than Nate.

Look, this isn't me saying Mikko sucks donkey balls. This is just me saying he's no where near worth 12M a year. There is a huge difference between being worthy of a 9-10M a year deal and being trash. I've never suggested Mikko is trash. I've just suggested that it would be suicide for a GM to pay him the kind of money he thinks he is worth.

f*** off? What did I say to deserve that kind of response ET?

The fact I said this isn't directed at you, and then just explained why I didn't think it was fair for Mikko to be treated like Val and Duchene, without negatively characterizing your opinion, or taking personal shots at you?

We get along all the time and now suddenly you tell me to f*** off? Can't you see that you're looking at this 100% emotionally and not logically?
 

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