The Martin St Louis Thread

[Sorinth]

I see this argument a lot and it’s always stunk. The team’s playing great right now but a good stretch doesn’t erase the half a season where his decisions sucked. I hope the team keeps continuing to role but MSL was getting challenged and rightfully so for how the team was performing for a long period of time this season.

No it doesn't erase it but it does show how many of the complaints were overreactions.

At the end of the day it's normal for bad stretches to happen, and it's normal that it can take time to correct. And just like a good stretch doesn't erase a bad stretch a bad stretch doesn't erase the good stretches.

For example, MSL took a lot of flak for being patient with Gallagher, Anderson, Armia when they were struggling. You can say you were in the right at the time to challenge MSL's decisions, but it's also now pretty clear that MSL was actually making the right decision by being patient.

 

[Sorinth]

There needn’t be entrenched sides to begin with.

Who said they were? Not me.

Very static sort of thinking. You don’t think any conditions changed — nothing? The Habs were ranked dead last in multiple team stat categories for about a quarter of the season.

Not sure what you mean, of course things changed, things are constantly in flux and changing.

 

[nhlfan9191]

No it doesn't erase it but it does show how many of the complaints were overreactions.

At the end of the day it's normal for bad stretches to happen, and it's normal that it can take time to correct. And just like a good stretch doesn't erase a bad stretch a bad stretch doesn't erase the good stretches.

For example, MSL took a lot of flak for being patient with Gallagher, Anderson, Armia when they were struggling. You can say you were in the right at the time to challenge MSL's decisions, but it's also now pretty clear that MSL was actually making the right decision by being patient.

What you’re saying is fair for the most part. But using recency bias to debunk arguments made in the past or with hindsight has always been lame to me. For example, I’ve always been a big defender of our goaltenders. If I always came out and dunked on detractors of Carey Price everytime he has a good 5 game stretch in midst of a stinker season, I would get attacked for cherry picking. It’s the same thing here. The sample size matters and I hope they keep it up in this case. But we aren’t there yet.

 

[Frankenheimer]

I see this argument a lot and it’s always stunk. The team’s playing great right now but a good stretch doesn’t erase the half a season where his decisions sucked. I hope the team keeps continuing to role but MSL was getting challenged and rightfully so for how the team was performing for a long period of time this season.

half a season? We're not even at half yet and the team is about where many expected.

The team is young, inexperienced, and often fragile, thats why its important to always come back to the picture instead of lighting hair on fire during tough stretches like many here do.

I dont think MSL was doing anything especially wrong and the clearest indicator of this was the fact the lockerroom remained tight and in a good frame of mind. This means that behind the scenes MSL is communicating effectively and staying focused on the long term sometimes at the expense of short term points or even blowouts.

 

[Sorinth]

What you’re saying is fair for the most part. But using recency bias to debunk arguments made in the past or with hindsight has always been lame to me. For example, I’ve always been a big defender of our goaltenders. If I always came out and dunked on detractors of Carey Price everytime he has a good 5 game stretch in midst of a stinker season, I would get attacked for cherry picking. It’s the same thing here. The sample size matters and I hope they keep it up in this case. But we aren’t there yet.

At the time people were also saying you need to be patient, hindsight being used to show who was right and who was wrong on whether we should be patient is fine. It's only when hindsight is used to make an argument that no one was making that it's lame/problematic.

It also seems pretty lame to me for someone to overreact to any negative stretch and then claim hey it was deserved because they were playing bad at that time. And for the record I'm not saying this is what you did, I honestly have no idea what you were saying at the time and don't care enough to go back and look.

 

[nhlfan9191]

At the time people were also saying you need to be patient, hindsight being used to show who was right and who was wrong on whether we should be patient is fine. It's only when hindsight is used to make an argument that no one was making that it's lame/problematic.

It also seems pretty lame to me for someone to overreact to any negative stretch and then claim hey it was deserved because they were playing bad at that time. And for the record I'm not saying this is what you did, I honestly have no idea what you were saying at the time and don't care enough to go back and look.

The negative stretch being years to a 5 game winning streak. Lol I can’t be bothered.

 

[the valiant effort]

Pictured: Marty St. Louis accepts the 2025 Jack Adams

 

[Kennerback]

Not.

 

[tazsub3]

If it’s not coaching that keeps these guys fighting in Vegas , against a team that had not lost being up by 2 all year at home …. Yea again just a streak ….. to the nay sayers . I wish you a happy new year and suggest to watch how the team is playing . You might enjoy it

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Hello!!!

-ello...

-ello...

 

[Sorinth]

The negative stretch being years to a 5 game winning streak. Lol I can’t be bothered.

It hasn't been negative for years, but we can agree to disagree, just hope you never once said how you wanted us to rebuild.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

There shouldn’t be sides, camps, parties, etc. It’s nauseating.

We should welcome persuasive arguments and people who allow themselves to be persuaded.

People taking sides shouldn't be about being black or white and speaking in absolutes. Dach was a mistake 3 weeks ago without being given benefit of the doubt after suffering a career altering injury and missing a full year of hockey. There is room for debate and it's normal to have disagreements but some people take the hyperbolic route or go for hot takes and go missing when its time to face the music.

This board is probably the biggest in terms of the number of members. I have all the time in the world for a post or a poster more on the cautionary side / not a fanboy if they bring facts and analysis to their points instead of making posts that almost feel like trolling or playing contrarian.

 

[Vachon23]

Would still add him an experience assistant coach this offseason. Someone like Derek Lalonde

 

[Paddyjack]

Hello!!!

-ello...

-ello...

 

[salbutera]

Would still add him an experience assistant coach this offseason. Someone like Derek Lalonde

The improvements were seeing are some of the tactical coaching techniques used by Roger Grillo to get “the message across”.

I find it interesting special team immediately improve (have been stellar since beginning of the season even pre Laine) with pretty much same roster as last year but only real change was a renowned tactical coach in Grillo.

MSL doesn’t need another warm body on the bench during a game - Grillo can perfectly do it from the sky

 

[Victoire HuGo]

The improvements were seeing are some of the tactical coaching techniques used by Roger Grillo to get “the message across”.

I find it interesting special team immediately improve (have been stellar since beginning of the season even pre Laine) with pretty much same roster as last year but only real change was a renowned tactical coach in Grillo.

MSL doesn’t need another warm body on the bench during a game - Grilloncan perfectly do it from the sky

Don't forget Hutson though.

 

[salbutera]

Don't forget Hutson though.

PK?

 

[Victoire HuGo]

PK?

Oh thought you were looking at PP mostly since mention of Laine. Anderson wasn't on PK last year as an additional change made this year

 

[salbutera]

Oh thought you were looking at PP mostly since mention of Laine. Anderson wasn't on PK last year as an additional change made this year

Exactly my point - best use of resources & tactics, as a coaching consultant / advisor that’s Grillo’s main job and what MSL needed most

 

[dukeofjive]

Got quiet in here for some reason.

Happy new year to the best bipolar fan base in the world.

 

[ReimanSum1908]

Got quiet in here for some reason.

Happy new year to the best bipolar fan base in the world.

I don't like this! These coaching changes, with improved special teams and defensive coverage in the D-zone, are ruining the Tank! #Firestlouis

Better?

 

[Sorinth]

The improvements were seeing are some of the tactical coaching techniques used by Roger Grillo to get “the message across”.

I find it interesting special team immediately improve (have been stellar since beginning of the season even pre Laine) with pretty much same roster as last year but only real change was a renowned tactical coach in Grillo.

MSL doesn’t need another warm body on the bench during a game - Grillo can perfectly do it from the sky

It's been mentioned that in previous years they just didn't spend much time at practice working on special teams because the focus was on improving 5 on 5 play. This summer MSL said that they would spend more time working on special teams.

Putting in the time probably has more to do with the improvement then the Grillo hiring, but it's never just one thing. Caufield regaining his scoring touch also no doubt helped, Hutson being there, etc...

 

[teamfirst]

Got quiet in here for some reason.

Happy new year to the best bipolar fan base in the world.

As it should be, team playing better means coaching is less a serious problem.....who would've tought.

 

[StCaufield]

I hope we can keep this up but this hot run we’ve been on doesn’t mean coaching isn’t a problem anymore. I hope they keep growing as a team and as a coaching staff but if anyone thinks that MSL is all of a sudden coach of the year then you’re nuts. Cautiously excited

 

[ReHabs]

I hope we can keep this up but this hot run we’ve been on doesn’t mean coaching isn’t a problem anymore. I hope they keep growing as a team and as a coaching staff but if anyone thinks that MSL is all of a sudden coach of the year then you’re nuts. Cautiously excited

If we run to the end of season with a 0.600+ pt% he’s actually going to win Coach of the Year.