Coaching is a serious problem.

[HabbyGuy]

MSL would’ve been fired long before January if the Habs had any real ambitions. The bad start was very bad and put us in a big hole.

Where do you people come up with this shit?

The habs DO have ambitions and they include Marty, they just realize where they are in the process, and how the roster's makeup wasn't doing him any favours.

You try coaching a team with no 2C, your prized offseason acquisition on the shelf, and have the league's youngest D playing in their wrong chairs with no help from your backup netminder for the first 6 weeks of the season and see how you'd fare.

Or any other coach for that matter.

The idea of firing Marty has never even entered their thought process, nor should it have, he's done nothing to warrant such a terrible decision.

Marty may not be perfect or even polished yet, but has done a hell of a job holding this team together all things considered, he deserves kudos not slights.

This team continues to believe in itself and is progressing. WTF more do you guys want from a coach guiding his team in the 3rd year of a rebuild?

 

[cave troll]

Problem with coaching is that it will not give us Top 5 pick.

 

[RabbleMasterBlaster]

Problem with coaching is that it will not give us Top 5 pick.

Anti-tank thread?

 

[ReHabs]

Where do you people come up with this shit?

The Habs tanked the first quarter of the season. Other bottom teams fired their coaches, there’s nothing to say the Habs wouldn’t have done the same had they felt pressure to compete this year.

No amount of narrative building will change this. The Habs did not show up to start the season, it was pathetic.

The exuberance we see after the recent wins goes to show how desperately we want to see a successful team. It’s more fun, it’s more stimulating, it’s more hopeful. God willing it continues.

 

[cave troll]

Anti-tank thread?

Yes. Our tank got hit by MSL's javelin.

 

[morhilane]

So, is coaching still a serious problem?

They are still some tactical mistakes (game plan choice) and some repeated mistakes from certain players that need fixing but haven't yet. Also, the Dzone system is still confusing the forwards sometimes (it was a bit of a problem against the Lightning).

Oh and Carrier has been eating X's ice time instead of Matheson, which means Matheson is still playing too much and that's going to bite them in the ass again.

 

[Milhouse40]

Where do you people come up with this shit?

The habs DO have ambitions and they include Marty, they just realize where they are in the process, and how the roster's makeup wasn't doing him any favours.

You try coaching a team with no 2C, your prized offseason acquisition on the shelf, and have the league's youngest D playing in their wrong chairs with no help from your backup netminder for the first 6 weeks of the season and see how you'd fare.

Or any other coach for that matter.

The idea of firing Marty has never even entered their thought process, nor should it have, he's done nothing to warrant such a terrible decision.

Marty may not be perfect or even polished yet, but has done a hell of a job holding this team together all things considered, he deserves kudos not slights.

This team continues to believe in itself and is progressing. WTF more do you guys want from a coach guiding his team in the 3rd year of a rebuild?

This is why I barely stepped foot in this thread......

Yeah the team was playing badly cause the team was bad and still is to some point but that's not on the coach.

When you expect filet mignon and you get t-bone, then yeah fire the chef.....but the best chef in the world won't turn a t-bone into a filet mignon either.

If the coach don't have the weapons to go to war, don't expect him to win that war.
Management and any Fans that are not simply looking at hating someone understand that Marty still don't have the weapons needed....but Laine and Carrier sure help.

 

[Guy Larose]

This is why I barely stepped foot in this thread......

Yeah the team was playing badly cause the team was bad and still is to some point but that's not on the coach.

When you expect filet mignon and you get t-bone, then yeah fire the chef.....but the best chef in the world won't turn a t-bone into a filet mignon either.

If the coach don't have the weapons to go to war, don't expect him to win that war.
Management and any Fans that are not simply looking at hating someone understand that Marty still don't have the weapons needed....but Laine and Carrier sure help.

Too much common sense for this thread, you're better than that man

 

[Shutdown]

The Habs tanked the first quarter of the season. Other bottom teams fired their coaches, there’s nothing to say the Habs wouldn’t have done the same had they felt pressure to compete this year.

No amount of narrative building will change this. The Habs did not show up to start the season, it was pathetic.

The exuberance we see after the recent wins goes to show how desperately we want to see a successful team. It’s more fun, it’s more stimulating, it’s more hopeful. God willing it continues.

pointing out facts is narrative building? everything the other poster mentioned provides context as to why the habs didn't show up to start the season. things don't happen in a vacuum.

 

[ReHabs]

pointing out facts is narrative building? everything the other poster mentioned provides context as to why the habs didn't show up to start the season. things don't happen in a vacuum.

Saying the Habs didn’t have a 2C is not a fact, it’s narrative building to excuse away facts that are inconvenient.

 

[Shutdown]

Saying the Habs didn’t have a 2C is not a fact, it’s narrative building to excuse away facts that are inconvenient.

cherry picking at its finest. what was wrong with the other 3 points he laid out - too inconveniently factual for you?

Kirby Dach was not playing like a 2C. Christian Dvorak is not a 2C. Jake Evans is not a 2C.
The backup goalie sucked.
The d-core was uninsulated.
Patrick Laine was out to start the season.

what are you even talking about?

 

[ReHabs]

cherry picking at its finest. what was wrong with the other 3 points he laid out - too inconveniently factual for you?

Kirby Dach was not playing like a 2C. Christian Dvorak is not a 2C. Jake Evans is not a 2C.
The backup goalie sucked.
The d-core was uninsulated.
Patrick Laine was out to start the season.

what are you even talking about?

Older and more experienced “young” D as last year — playing worse (in fact the only bright spot was a rookie)
Same goalies as finished last year — playing worse
Same top6 as finished last year — playing worse

You can try to excuse away all of the above but that is literally you all trying to construct a narrative. You don’t need to bother!

The Habs played badly. The results are there. 32nd in some categories. It’s not unheard of to criticise a coach whose team doesn’t come to play. What’s with the obsession with score-settling?

 

[Shutdown]

Older and more experienced “young” D as last year — playing worse (in fact the only bright spot was a rookie)
Same goalies as finished last year — playing worse
Same top6 as finished last year — playing worse

You can try to excuse away all of the above but that is literally you all trying to construct a narrative. You don’t need to bother!

The Habs played badly. The results are there. 32nd in some categories. It’s not unheard of to criticise a coach whose team doesn’t come to play. What’s with the obsession with score-settling?

they're not even the same D and top 6. and yeah, the D core was more experienced, but it doesn't take away from the fact that they were the youngest in the league. for all the narrative construction accusations, you seem to be the one doing most of it.

they weren't playing well at the beginning of the season. the team wasn't implementing the system properly, that's on the coach to figure out and he did, with the help of roster changes. but why ignore what's been happening in the last dozen games? instead it's empty platitudes like "The exuberance we see after the recent wins goes to show how desperately we want to see a successful team. It’s more fun, it’s more stimulating, it’s more hopeful. God willing it continues."
i swear that was written by AI

 

[ReHabs]

they're not even the same D and top 6. for all the narrative construction accusations, you seem to be the one doing most of it.

Matheson, Savard, Guhle, Struble, Barron and Xhekaj returned + Hutson was added. As a group they performed worse than last year.

they weren't playing well at the beginning of the season. the team wasn't implementing the system properly, that's on the coach to figure out and he did, with the help of roster changes.

Maybe you misunderstood the comments but this was what we were all saying. The Habs weren't playing well. Simple. You don't need to fight about it now and reinvent the narrative. The Habs sucked to start the season (more or less a 16 or so games -- not an insignificant chunk of sucking).

If we had real playoff aspirations this would've seen him get fired.

but why ignore what's been happening in the last dozen games? instead it's empty platitudes like "The exuberance we see after the recent wins goes to show how desperately we want to see a successful team. It’s more fun, it’s more stimulating, it’s more hopeful. God willing it continues."
i swear that was written by AI

No one's ignored the last dozen games. Some of you are insisting to 'settle scores' and re-write the season as if there hasn't been a dramatic turnaround.

We had to open a tank thread to contain the tank talk for heaven's sake -- things were not going according to plan. Maybe you missed all the "in the mix" jokes.

 

[Sorinth]

This is why I barely stepped foot in this thread......

Yeah the team was playing badly cause the team was bad and still is to some point but that's not on the coach.

When you expect filet mignon and you get t-bone, then yeah fire the chef.....but the best chef in the world won't turn a t-bone into a filet mignon either.

If the coach don't have the weapons to go to war, don't expect him to win that war.
Management and any Fans that are not simply looking at hating someone understand that Marty still don't have the weapons needed....but Laine and Carrier sure help.

It's the nature of pro-sports for coaches to focus/work on fixing one aspect of a teams play only for some other aspect that wasn't a problem to become one. In many ways it's a fire fighting excersise where you are jumping from one problem to the next to the next.

So it's worth noting that everytime MSL has said he was going to focus on something, that aspect improved significantly. One of the first things he talked about was getting better at 5 on 5, and they made significant improvements last year, so much so that all the complaints were about how our special teams sucked, especially the PP. So this summer he said he was going to focus on special teams, and this year our special teams have been dramatically better. After the first couple weeks of this season when the D coverage was a disaster and fans were saying MSL system is too complicated for the players he said he was going to focus on that, and we're seeing dramatic improvements in the D zone.

 

[MasterD]

Weird how it improved with Laine coming back and us getting a vet RD who can settle things down.

Better on ice results doesn't necessarily mean coaching is better. I don't disagree he was coaching a bad team. I'm saying he could have coached them better.

 

[Adam Michaels]

MSL better not shave the beard. Trimming only.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Better on ice results doesn't necessarily mean coaching is better. I don't disagree he was coaching a bad team. I'm saying he could have coached them better.

Let’s say the coaching was the same… doesn’t that prove it wasn’t as big a problem as it was made out to be back when we didn’t have an RD who would eat minutes? Wouldn’t that be evidence that it was a roster issue all along?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Saying the Habs didn’t have a 2C is not a fact, it’s narrative building to excuse away facts that are inconvenient.

More disengenous shit. You’ve spent all year talking about how the Habs don’t have a number two

 

[HelloBellyvo]

Let’s say the coaching was the same… doesn’t that prove it wasn’t as big a problem as it was made out to be back when we didn’t have an RD who would eat minutes? Wouldn’t that be evidence that it was a roster issue all along?

i like your rationale

 

[teamfirst]

He still a bad coach but the team is playing better.....and that's way more fun.

 

[Kennerback]

He still a bad coach but the team is playing better.....and that's way more fun.

I always think we could do worst. Michel Therrien, Jacques Martin… Even Claude Julien, this lineup is too skilled for Julien especially with Demidov on his way. Carbonneau would even be better than Julien for this team. So MSL has not proved anything really, but I count my lucky star that he’s not worse than he is.

 

[Paddyjack]

Let’s say the coaching was the same… doesn’t that prove it wasn’t as big a problem as it was made out to be back when we didn’t have an RD who would eat minutes? Wouldn’t that be evidence that it was a roster issue all along?

Could be. Carrier certainly did improve the play on D-zone, but he learned to play like that elsewhere. Are MSL or Robidas good teachers for these young kids though? Jury still out IMO.

But at least they play better.

 

[Egresch]

I am happy I see some progress from MSL, but he is not a good coach because we play a good hockey now. He did not coach Laine's one-timer. People talk about Carrier which helped for sure, but the main difference is that MSL stopped those constant line changes. Since Carrier arrived, we play the same 3 D pairings, so they can work on their flaws and fix them. Matheson- Hutson still sounds wrong, sorry.
We say that team is bad, but we expect high draft picks at TDL for players like Savard, Evans... So are they really that bad? Primeau was horrible, but he is not new to the organization. Who forced them to keep him?
Matheson still playing 25 mins and PK1 is weird decision.

 

[Sorinth]

I always think we could do worst. Michel Therrien, Jacques Martin… Even Claude Julien, this lineup is too skilled for Julien especially with Demidov on his way. Carbonneau would even be better than Julien for this team. So MSL has not proved anything really, but I count my lucky star that he’s not worse than he is.

We could for sure be doing worse. MSL is probably the only coach we've had in the past 20+ years who would play Hutson like we have this year. Therrien & Julien would be limiting him to 10min a game, Carbonneau would probably have him playing as a forward on the 4th line, I can only see Martin in that list as a guy who would actually work with Hutson, and even then the focus would first and foremost be playing sound defensive hockey but he'd at least play him a good number of minutes.