The Martin St Louis Thread

[BLONG7]

where do you come up with this shit?

-the habs had zero ambition and management understood they would suck
-Marty is a intern coach that will be replaced when we need a coach and not a French Cheerleader
-all of a sudden we have no 2C when people like you have been claiming he would easily replace Monohan
-our “prized” offseason acquisition was a cap dump and that hasn’t played a full season in like 4 years.
- coaching definitely had a say when they decided to sign Barron and move Kova for a high five.
-coaching was fine with Primeau last year.
- the nhl is not a place to develop a coach, that fact alone should prove to you that they had zero expectations for this team.
- the team has not progressed in the slightest and any team that had serious motivation would fire a guy who has been this bad for this long.


The team believes in what exactly?
Just accept that when it’s time to be a good team, we will hire a good coach and these things won’t upset you. We just need to be patient and wait for the prospects to come up and a real coach to get hired

Patience is a tough one, after roughing the Bergevin years........guys like Therrien, Julien and Mumble Nuts, Dom.
Marty has had his struggles for sure.........he is developing as a coach as the team develops also.....
It's a process that's for sure....i would rather a proven coach also, but look at the clowns before him, so let's see where it goes.........we will have a better team moving forward and MSL may or may not be the guy,

 

[ReHabs]

LOL must be nice to have your cake and eat it too! The point is they had this turn around with Marty in tow, not the hypothetical new guy. Hence Marty derserves the credit new guy would have took.

If the situation was entirely different, then the conclusions one makes from the situation would be entirely different too.

I can’t believe you thought you had a Gotcha moment with that. My man, put the score-settling attempts aside and come back to the discussion. I’ve given MSL plenty of credit in the most recent comments just scroll up and look.

 

[Andy]

They definitely changed their forecheck and cycle approach. They’ve been much more aggressive in retrieving pucks and they are finally cycling effectively.

Still gotta clean up the gap between forward and D when possession changes in the defensive zone.

Systems wise they look to be way tighter

 

[HabbyGuy]

If the situation was entirely different, then the conclusions one makes from the situation would be entirely different too.

I can’t believe you thought you had a Gotcha moment with that. My man, put the score-settling attempts aside and come back to the discussion. I’ve given MSL plenty of credit in the most recent comments just scroll up and look.

It's not a gotcha moment, it's the truth. You can't have it both ways.

I'm not settling scores either, I've been firmly in thinking this discussion that coaching is a serious problem has been ridiculous from the get go. This isn't me doing anything different from the start.

 

[ReHabs]

It's not a gotcha moment, it's the truth. You can't have it both ways.

What both ways are those? Everyone agrees the Habs are playing differently than before. They played badly for 16 games to start the season and play better for the 20 games since. Hopefully even better in the near future.

I'm not settling scores either, I've been firmly in thinking this discussion that coaching is a serious problem has been ridiculous from the get go. This isn't me doing anything different from the start.

Well it’s ridiculous to think a 32nd ranked team in multiple categories doesn’t have a coaching problem.

Seems like you want it both ways: whether the facts are with or against your argument.

It’s cool you think MSL is a good coach. The results and performances didn’t support this argument when the thread was made.

 

[BaseballCoach]

at sany rate,m the way the Habs want to playSavard doesn’t hold Matheson’s value. And Matheson’s defense (and Hutson’s offense) make him expendable.

However, unless Matheson brings back a top 4 D, trading him means having to play either Savard or Struble in the top 4. Yuck.

Besides, having Hutson does not make Matheson "expendable" any more than having Dahlin makes Power expendable or having Robinson made Savard expendable.

Good teams need five top 4 d-men.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

They definitely changed their forecheck and cycle approach. They’ve been much more aggressive in retrieving pucks and they are finally cycling effectively.

Still gotta clean up the gap between forward and D when possession changes in the defensive zone.

Systems wise they look to be way tighter

Yep we're actually using our speed and it's definitely annoying for other teams. Last game they put on a clinic for forecheck.

 

[HabbyGuy]

It’s cool you think MSL is a good coach. The results and performances didn’t support this argument when the thread was made.

No they didn't, the results and performances were due to other mitigating circumstances, isn't it funny that now that the team is finally healthy, and have stabilized the D by getting some help in putting people in their proper chairs, that the team is finally playing better?

Wouldn't this be a better indication of the real problem?

Let's not forget we're still very much in a rebuild phase as well. There are going to be struggles regardless.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

What both ways are those? Everyone agrees the Habs are playing differently than before. They played badly for 16 games to start the season and play better for the 20 games since. Hopefully even better in the near future.

Well it’s ridiculous to think a 32nd ranked team in multiple categories doesn’t have a coaching problem.

Seems like you want it both ways: whether the facts are with or against your argument.

It’s cool you think MSL is a good coach. The results and performances didn’t support this argument when the thread was made.

Sure but it also ignores any individual progress previously made or how team looked in 2nd half last year. It was recency bias at its finest.

 

[dcyhabs]

They definitely changed their forecheck and cycle approach. They’ve been much more aggressive in retrieving pucks and they are finally cycling effectively.

Did they change their style or are they succeeding where they were failing? It’s only two players, but a combined 40 minutes of ice time with everyone else getting reduced responsibilities. Laine is skilled enough other teams have to play him differently and Carrier is effective defensively, not elite, but miles better than Barron.

It’s pretty hard to evaluate coaching and GMing short term, lots of random factors. MSL is professional about decisions. He didn’t badmouth Barron or not play him, but he probably had input on the trade. It’s so much better than Therrien bullying players and announcing publicly that he’d never play them again. Not sure what is up with Pez, and that’s probably a good thing.

 

[Frankenheimer]

I like how posters are bending backwards to not give MSL any credit for good team performance, only bad ones. I think MSL is doing a great job developing this team and creating a positive culture. It's also attractive hockey, not some negative system. He's now reaping the rewards and so are we. He reminds me more of a European soccer manager than hockey coach.

The team has been on an upward swing since mid november or so. For those not blinded by MSL hatred, it has been quite apparent.

 

[dcyhabs]

I like how posters are bending backwards to not give MSL any credit for good team performance, only bad ones. I think MSL is doing a great job developing this team and creating a positive culture. It's also attractive hockey, not some negative system. He's now reaping the rewards and so are we. He reminds me more of a European soccer manager than hockey coach.

The team has been on an upward swing since mid november or so. For those not blinded by MSL hatred, it has been quite apparent.

A lot of coaches make a big effort to take credit for team success. It’s really hard to know how much the coach contributes.

I’d really like a proven guy in the mix, but there aren’t many. Maybe hire Boudreau as an advisor, remote, not much time, just get information? He did well with multiple teams and he was able to fix aspects of play. One of the few guys who could say “I can fix that power play and then they can win” and then follow through. He’s almost 70 and not looking for work but maybe something occasional with no pressure or travel.

 

[Andy]

I like how posters are bending backwards to not give MSL any credit for good team performance, only bad ones. I think MSL is doing a great job developing this team and creating a positive culture. It's also attractive hockey, not some negative system. He's now reaping the rewards and so are we. He reminds me more of a European soccer manager than hockey coach.

The team has been on an upward swing since mid november or so. For those not blinded by MSL hatred, it has been quite apparent.

They’ve been playing consistently well since that Calgary we keep referencing. Certain things still need to be cleaned up but it’s a growing team

 

[ReHabs]

No they didn't, the results and performances were due to other mitigating circumstances, isn't it funny that now that the team is finally healthy, and have stabilized the D by getting some help in putting people in their proper chairs, that the team is finally playing better?

Wouldn't this be a better indication of the real problem?

Let's not forget we're still very much in a rebuild phase as well. There are going to be struggles regardless.

Mitigating circumstances like not having Laine’s laser shot single handedly change games?

If you can’t admit the Habs looked awful in that 16gp span to start the season I’m not sure what else to say.

Sure but it also ignores any individual progress previously made or how team looked in 2nd half last year. It was recency bias at its finest.

The criticism is not universal or general, especially not from me. I’ve been a big time backer of MSL. Taking into account how we ended last season, this season’s stinky dog poo start (and all the players underperforming) was bad and it reflected poorly on MSL.

I don’t understand why it is such a problem to admit and move on.

 

[habdynasty]

I remember the dinosaur coaches with rookies. 4th line , make a mistake sit on the bench. Thank god those days are done.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Mitigating circumstances like not having Laine’s laser shot single handedly change games?

Yeah that would be one example for sure.

 

[morhilane]

Did they change their style or are they succeeding where they were failing?

MSL was clear at the season start that they didn't work much on 5v5 during pre-season. They focused on special teams.

They started with fixing the dzone stuff first because it was a big issues and they ended up making changes (Robidas talked about it a bit) from their initial conceptions. That took a while to gel, but once it did they started to work on the transition and offense side of it and that has now also started to gel going by the last few games.

There was a generalized lack of efforts early season too, which muddled things even more.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

Mitigating circumstances like not having Laine’s laser shot single handedly change games.


The criticism is universal or general, especially not from me. I’ve been a big time backer of MSL. Taking into account how we ended last season, this season’s stinky dog poo start (and all the players underperforming) was bad and it reflected poorly on MSL.

I don’t understand why it is such a problem to admit and move on.

Because the narrative was that MSL was a nepotism hire, always sucked and was the main reason for our lack of success. As highlighted by @HabbyGuy seems like some were overly harsh on St Louis.

Were there times where writing was on the wall and question of whether he'd survive the year or not had merit? Absolutely but some were making it seem like he was never good and was unable to turn this around

 

[dcyhabs]

Because the narrative was that MSL was a nepotism hire, always sucked and was the main reason for our lack of success. As highlighted by @HabbyGuy seems like some were overly harsh on St Louis.

Were there times where writing was on the wall and question of whether he'd survive the year or not had merit? Absolutely but some were making it seem like he was never good and was unable to turn this around

I really don’t want Montreal to go further into the narratives thing. I saw enough of that in Toronto where the fans and media would all believe some ridiculous thing and the team would actually follow. I think they’ve learned to ignore the media and fanbase.

TSN and Sportsnet scouting gets you picks like Fucale, nice guys who talk to the media but don’t make thd NHL.

 

[Kennerback]

We had to play a healthy scratch in Nashville as our #6D and a #2G that wasn’t picked up on waivers. Plus there was Laine injured. I didn’t like some of his decisions but they were more akin to move deck chairs. Maybe move Hutson to PP QB faster could have made a difference. Idk how much more we could do.

 

[sampollock]

msl can breathe for now

 

[themilosh]

I’m not a fan of the thread title either. Becomes an argument as to whether coaching is a problem (dichotomy is not interesting for fun convo) instead of a tread about what we think of coaching. Might rename to “what do you think of coaching’ or just “coaching” because a forum implies sharing opinions anyway.

But in the end, who really cares? It's just words afterall..

 

[BaseballCoach]

We had to play a healthy scratch in Nashville as our #6D and a #2G that wasn’t picked up on waivers. Plus there was Laine injured. I didn’t like some of his decisions but they were more akin to move deck chairs. Maybe move Hutson to PP QB faster could have made a difference. Idk how much more we could do.

Power play effecxtieness is very slightly lower now wth Hutson as QB than earlier with Matheson.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

What both ways are those? Everyone agrees the Habs are playing differently than before. They played badly for 16 games to start the season and play better for the 20 games since. Hopefully even better in the near future.

Well it’s ridiculous to think a 32nd ranked team in multiple categories doesn’t have a coaching problem.

Seems like you want it both ways: whether the facts are with or against your argument.

It’s cool you think MSL is a good coach. The results and performances didn’t support this argument when the thread was made.

The thread was made after game three…

This is the thing you don’t seem to understand, rebuilding takes time and there will be misteps along the way. That doesn’t mean you fire/replace/trade people right away. You have to give it some time, esp when you’re dealing with things like injuries.

It is completely disengenous to start screaming for a winning club when it’s in year three of a rebuild and most of its picks aren’t even with the team yet. It’s going to take time. We’re going to see inconsistent play for most of the year. Unfortunately for us, a lot of the bad play started at the beginning of the year. At least we’ve partially made up for it now. But this isn’t going to last either. We’re not that good a team for it to last.

Demidov and Beck next year. Maybe Roy and Mailloux. Then RB, Fowler and Hage after that. There’s a ton of talent coming and we’ve already got a good foundation.

But no, we’re not there yet.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

msl can breathe for now

Until the next two game losing streak.