CHL Players to NCAA now allowed?

[hockeyguy0022]

I'm not sure when things changed... but it came up with the female goalie that played in the Q the other day. (they said shes going to the NCAA, and everyone commented that... that's not really possible now)

I also found Austen Swankler played nearly an entire season for the Erie Otters in 19-20 and is now playing for Bowling Green...

Was there a formal rule change in the NCAA? Did we miss it? What's the official status of this?

Do they just make it up as they go?

How did Austen Swankler do this?

Click to read more...

 

[JMCx4]

 

[hockeyguy0022]

Pretty strange that the NCAA can't google and find hockeyDB... on these players.

I don't buy it.

What's going to happen to the female goalie who played in the Q? Eve gascon? Shes magically going to get an exception now?

None the less, This NCAA rule shouldn't even exist now that NIL deals are paying millions. It's obviously ridiculous

I can't believe it's also happened more then one. Strange. Brayden Gelsinger is a weird one as well. nearly 8-9 years between playing for the blazers and his final year in the NCAA.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I would suspect that a female goalie, who plays a single game in the Q, has a pretty good chance at getting an NCAA exemption.

Completely different situation from Swankler.

 

[Kane One]

The reason against CHL players not having NCAA eligibility is their CHL stipend, no? Did she get a stipend for that one game? Or maybe there’s been a rule change that I’m missing?

 

[Yukon Joe]

The reason against CHL players not having NCAA eligibility is their CHL stipend, no? Did she get a stipend for that one game? Or maybe there’s been a rule change that I’m missing?

As I understand it, the reason the NCAA says CHL players are ineligible is because of the stipend.

But the rule is "CHL players are ineligible", not "players who receive a CHL stipend are ineligible".

 

[LadyStanley]

AIUI, MALE hockey players are expressly prohibited from playing in NCAA games after playing in CHL (or any "you-get-a-stipend-therefore-you-are-a-pro" junior league). (Along with football players.)

Female hockey players are not among those prohibited from playing in NCAA, which is how she could play a game in the Q and then go to the NCAA and player.

 

[gstommylee]

AIUI, MALE hockey players are expressly prohibited from playing in NCAA games after playing in CHL (or any "you-get-a-stipend-therefore-you-are-a-pro" junior league). (Along with football players.)

Female hockey players are not among those prohibited from playing in NCAA, which is how she could play a game in the Q and then go to the NCAA and player.

I'll be honest not sure how is that actually legal? Male playing in the CHL can't play in the NCAA but a female can?

 

[LadyStanley]

I'll be honest not sure how is that actually legal? Male playing in the CHL can't play in the NCAA but a female can?

It is not a criminal or civil legality. It is a NCAA rule.

NCAA rule prohibits male ice hockey players and football players from participating in NCAA games/seasons after junior stint. And only those two sports. (For instance 15 year old could play pro tennis and then go to college at say 18 and play.)

NCAA may be pushed to change rule or remove entirely.

 

[gstommylee]

It is not a criminal or civil legality. It is a NCAA rule.

NCAA rule prohibits male ice hockey players and football players from participating in NCAA games/seasons after junior stint. And only those two sports. (For instance 15 year old could play pro tennis and then go to college at say 18 and play.)

NCAA may be pushed to change rule or remove entirely.

it goes against discrimination laws though. Either both male and females that play in the CHL are allowed NCAA college hockey or they aren't. The rule has to apply equally and fairly. That's where my beef is at.

 

[StreetHawk]

Pretty strange that the NCAA can't google and find hockeyDB... on these players.

I don't buy it.

What's going to happen to the female goalie who played in the Q? Eve gascon? Shes magically going to get an exception now?

None the less, This NCAA rule shouldn't even exist now that NIL deals are paying millions. It's obviously ridiculous

I can't believe it's also happened more then one. Strange. Brayden Gelsinger is a weird one as well. nearly 8-9 years between playing for the blazers and his final year in the NCAA.

It should be challenged now with NIL deals.
Or the CHL should change the stipend to a NIL type deal to avoid the getting paid for services.

 

[cape islander]

Would the NCAA or CHL benefit more if the NCAA allowed CHL players?

Chances are most top 16-17 year olds would go CHL if they didnt loose NCAA eligibity (especially Canadian players), but would they switch to the NCAA after or would they stay in the CHL until they go pro?

 

[StreetHawk]

Would the NCAA or CHL benefit more if the NCAA allowed CHL players?

Chances are most top 16-17 year olds would go CHL if they didnt loose NCAA eligibity (especially Canadian players), but would they switch to the NCAA after or would they stay in the CHL until they go pro?

Depends on how it works.
Winner would be NCAA as they would get good players who have done 2-4 years in the CHL. Be like the transfer portal in college football. Michigan loses Power, Beniers, Johnson to the nhl next season they can reload and get guys who hit the ice and contribute immediately.
Leagues like BCHL, AJHL, OJHL, etc lose out as some kids would opt for CHL for the higher level of competition.
Push would be the CHL. Gain some 16-17 year olds who would be playing tier II but instead opt for the CHL but leave after they are drafted to ncaa. Lose some drafted kids to ncaa. But would gain some financial benefit as the kids who go to ncaa, the chl teams would no longer be obligated to cover their post secondary education.
Chl kids get the opportunity to continue hockey career and get an education. Allows them to play CHL at 16/17 vs play tier II.

 

[hockeyguy0022]

Would the NCAA or CHL benefit more if the NCAA allowed CHL players?

Chances are most top 16-17 year olds would go CHL if they didnt loose NCAA eligibity (especially Canadian players), but would they switch to the NCAA after or would they stay in the CHL until they go pro?

NCAA benefits the most out of anyone, no idea why they haven't changed it yet.

Absolutely, would allow low end teams to get guys who just played 2-4 years of MJ who didn't catch on in the NHL/AHL.

That's a huge difference vs a 18 year old playing 40 game seasons of High school hockey vs someone whos 16-19 playing 80 game MJ seasons. Not even comparable.

That's a huge difference in player. Also extends guys career for 3-4 more years and continue to develop/get NHL scouting looks against top level competition.

Imagine if bottom end teams could now compete with Boston college/Denver/North Dakota/Michigan etc..

 

[StreetHawk]

NCAA benefits the most out of anyone, no idea why they haven't changed it yet.

Absolutely, would allow low end teams to get guys who just played 2-4 years of MJ who didn't catch on in the NHL/AHL.

That's a huge difference vs a 18 year old playing 40 game seasons of High school hockey vs someone whos 16-19 playing 80 game MJ seasons. Not even comparable.

That's a huge difference in player. Also extends guys career for 3-4 more years and continue to develop/get NHL scouting looks against top level competition.

Imagine if bottom end teams could now compete with Boston college/Denver/North Dakota/Michigan etc..

Plus imagine that with more talent some division 2 schools opt to move up to division 1.

Can easily change the stipend to a fee for the players NIL.

Whatever else is need the chl and ncaa should be able to work out.

NIL we just had for this past football season. Which was a huge deal to the top players.

See if there is a change coming for hockey with the CHL being eligible for NCAA.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Plus imagine that with more talent some division 2 schools opt to move up to division 1.

Can easily change the stipend to a fee for the players NIL.

Whatever else is need the chl and ncaa should be able to work out.

NIL we just had for this past football season. Which was a huge deal to the top players.

See if there is a change coming for hockey with the CHL being eligible for NCAA.

There are only like 6 or 7 NCAA DII hockey schools. None of them are going to move up to NCAA DI. They all play mostly NCAA DIII schedules.
Besides, you can't move up just your hockey program to NCAA DI now without the rest of your athletics department going DI as well.

Regardless, the talent has been increasing in the last two decades. It is well documented that players who were lower end NCAA DI players 10 years ago are now higher end NCAA DIII players. The increase in talent hasn't seen more than a handful of programs get added since 2000. As Lindenwood, ASU, LIU, and PSU have all showed. No one cares about "with more talent etc." or anything like that. It is all about the bottom line and whether the program will be in the black.

 

[joestevens29]

Would probably suck for the CIS if they started allowing CHL players in the NCAA.

When I look at the University of Alberta granted most are from the Edmonton area, but how many of those guys could potentially look to going to the NCAA instead?

 

[Yukon Joe]

Would probably suck for the CIS if they started allowing CHL players in the NCAA.

When I look at the University of Alberta granted most are from the Edmonton area, but how many of those guys could potentially look to going to the NCAA instead?

I think players looking at U Sports (I hat e that name, but it hasn't been CIS for awhile) are just fundamentally different than NCAA players.

Virtually all U Sports hockey players have come from CHL teams, so they tend to be a bit older, and they have their university paid for through the CHL. If they're going to U Sports teams they also likely know that they are not going to be playing pro hockey. So they're more looking at university hockey for fun, and to try to eke out a little last bit of playing.

So if you're a Canadian kid, age 20 or so, who already has a free ride due to playing in junior hockey, I don't think there'd be much attraction to going to a NCAA school.

 

[StreetHawk]

I think players looking at U Sports (I hat e that name, but it hasn't been CIS for awhile) are just fundamentally different than NCAA players.

Virtually all U Sports hockey players have come from CHL teams, so they tend to be a bit older, and they have their university paid for through the CHL. If they're going to U Sports teams they also likely know that they are not going to be playing pro hockey. So they're more looking at university hockey for fun, and to try to eke out a little last bit of playing.

So if you're a Canadian kid, age 20 or so, who already has a free ride due to playing in junior hockey, I don't think there'd be much attraction to going to a NCAA school.

If you are 20 and feel like you still want a shot at a pro career, ncaa still leaves that Avenue open for another 4 years til you are 24. Still get your education. You may not ever get there but it allows you to keep your dream alive longer as it is a higher level of competition.

 

[Yukon Joe]

If you are 20 and feel like you still want a shot at a pro career, ncaa still leaves that Avenue open for another 4 years til you are 24. Still get your education. You may not ever get there but it allows you to keep your dream alive longer as it is a higher level of competition.

Is NCAA a higher level of competition though?

U Sports players are just all, well, older. There's no 18-19 year olds on a U Sports team, as they're all 'graduates' of the CHL.

So if you're 20-21, have not signed to a pro contract, are you going to develop better in the NCAA playing against younger players, or in U Sports?

And don't get me wrong, if you're 20-21 with no pro contract your odds of pursuing a pro career are very long anyways.

 

[StreetHawk]

Is NCAA a higher level of competition though?

U Sports players are just all, well, older. There's no 18-19 year olds on a U Sports team, as they're all 'graduates' of the CHL.

So if you're 20-21, have not signed to a pro contract, are you going to develop better in the NCAA playing against younger players, or in U Sports?

And don't get me wrong, if you're 20-21 with no pro contract your odds of pursuing a pro career are very long anyways.

Could look at it like you are a 6th round pick and thus are a long shot to make it to the nhl. So rather than go to the Minors, you can get an education which you would lose out on via the CHL if you don’t go within 2 years of finishing your chl years. Still get good coaching and play against top level 18-20 year olds in the NCAA.

An education while playing hockey along with the college experience may be better than playing in the minors.

 

[joestevens29]

Is NCAA a higher level of competition though?

U Sports players are just all, well, older. There's no 18-19 year olds on a U Sports team, as they're all 'graduates' of the CHL.

So if you're 20-21, have not signed to a pro contract, are you going to develop better in the NCAA playing against younger players, or in U Sports?

And don't get me wrong, if you're 20-21 with no pro contract your odds of pursuing a pro career are very long anyways.

NCAA has it's share of 22-24 year olds too. Michigan has like 9 or 10 everyday guys that fit that category. You then have elite guys in the NCAA that can be in the NHL right now, or guys that are going to be in the NHL at the end of the season or guys that will be in the NHL the following year.

Not sure U Sports has all that many guys that fit that category.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Could look at it like you are a 6th round pick and thus are a long shot to make it to the nhl. So rather than go to the Minors, you can get an education which you would lose out on via the CHL if you don’t go within 2 years of finishing your chl years. Still get good coaching and play against top level 18-20 year olds in the NCAA.

An education while playing hockey along with the college experience may be better than playing in the minors.

Yeah, but the hypothetical you posted was "If you are 20 and feel like you still want a shot at a pro career".

If you want a pro career your best shot is to go play pro. Definitely AHL, probably even ECHL. You'll play more games, be more directly under the control of the NHL team that holds your rights.

But if you're 20 and don't have a pro contract? I think it's debateable whether a U Sports of NCAA team would develop you better.

 

[StreetHawk]

Yeah, but the hypothetical you posted was "If you are 20 and feel like you still want a shot at a pro career".

If you want a pro career your best shot is to go play pro. Definitely AHL, probably even ECHL. You'll play more games, be more directly under the control of the NHL team that holds your rights.

But if you're 20 and don't have a pro contract? I think it's debateable whether a U Sports of NCAA team would develop you better.

Also depends on how realistic your chances are. Not many 5-7 round picks make it to 200 nhl games.

So, maybe get the education in the back pocket first and make some connections in school. If at age 24 you garner interests as a ncaa free agent then go pro and sign.

 

[Herby]

I don't know what the rules are or if they have changed with these new transavtions, but there has been at least one case in the past where someone played in the CHL and then went to the NCAA. Former NHL'er Lee Goren played two games in the WHL at 18 and two seasons later joined North Dakota as a freshman.