CHL can now play NCAA - change everything !

[jtechkid]

You are making the NAHL to be some washed up old man league.

Just for clarity, the average ages of
NAHL - 18.90
USHL (without NTDP) - 18.13
BCHL - 18.53

Thats a 9 month difference in average age between the USHL and NAHL.

 

[Blue and Green]

This is not even remotely close to being accurate. Go look at some NCAA rosters, especially in the Atlantic and CCHA and there are a ton of kids who came to the school from NCAA. There are more than 100 alone in the Atlantic.

Also its extremely rare you see a kid go from D3 to D1. It may happen once or twice every couple of years.

Yes, thanks for the fact check. There are more than I thought who have gone straight from NAHL to D1.

 

[jtechkid]

ushl -20 old kids prob ard 40 kids
ntdp - zero
bchl guessing ard 90( they have limit of 6)
nahl 352 .
my view nahl to be relevent needs to get lot younger and be a feeder to ushl - juniors .
lot of rosters are really low end 20 year olds that should be playing club who are taking spots - development and ice time from a 2006-2007 kid that may have dramatic upside . coach at nahl trying win with 20 year old where their goal should be development to move kids tier one or now CHL . also my statistical view is average age of nahl is 19.4 years old . i have a good friend who kid in league and he broke down statistically how old nahl was and i see if he can send me numbers and will post it . my main view is nahl need age limits on 20 year old like every league does . common sense lol

 

[WarriorofTime]

The Junior Hockey pyramid in both USA and Canada is much larger than people seem aware.

All for 2024-25 to date

NAHL Weighted Average Age 19.667
BCHL Weighted Average Age 19.261
AJHL Weighted Average Age 19.193
QMJHL Weighted Average Age 18.848
USHL Weighted Average Age 18.824
OHL Weighted Average Age 18.733
WHL Weighted Average Age 18.687

and just comparison

NCAA Weighted Average Age 22.433


NAHL = no limits on number of 20 year olds that can play on a team
USHL and the 3 CHL leagues = Max of 20 year olds per game
NCDC = Max of 8 20 year old skaters per game

Also the EHL is the current leader in Division 3 NCAA commitments for what it's worth. That could shift to NAHL based on recent decision. EHLP often feeds into EHL.

The USPHL (which broke off from USA Hockey) is a league that moves players up quite a bit, often to NCDC, NAHL and Canadian Junior A. The USPHL-Premier is the top one of these two, and the USPHL-Elite often feeds into Premier.

In addition to the AJHL which is Canada's Best Junior A Hockey (with BCHL being an independent), there's the NOJHL, MJHL, SJHL, CCHL which are sending players to American and Canadian Universities presently.

The GOJHL is the one that functions most like a Minor League for the OHL. They were considering going independent, but may not with the recent decision as you may see more affiliations across all the Canadian Junior A Leagues.

NA3HL is the official third tier of the USA Hockey Pyramid but generally not as good as the independent ones mentioned above. A few NCAA D3 commits but mostly ACHA players from here, this one may not be around too much longer.

 

[Blue and Green]

Geography makes it difficult for the WHL to expand into the Minnesota region. It would be a minimum 8-hour bus ride from the Minneapolis region to the nearest WHL city in Brandon. Rochester would be even further. The WHL would have to grant Winnipeg another franchise (or relocation) but where would a Dub team play in that city? They could try and poach Sioux Falls and Fargo from the USHL (two franchises with the financial means and fan support to able to play in the WHL) and then place a team in Minnesota but again, we are still talking really long distances between cities. So I'm not really sure you will see, in the near future, much WHL expansion into the Midwest/plains region of the U.S.

The Q expansion into the New England region is very likely within the next couple of years, however, and I can see the OHL adding a team or two in the N.Y/Penn area.

I would wonder if the first move for the OHL would be to assimilate a couple of the well-heeled, well-supported USHL franchises. If some teams see the writing on the wall and have the wherewithal and desire to make the move, they might prefer to do it sooner rather than later to preserve player/coaching/management talent (and maybe fanbase interest) and also not to take the chance of getting beaten to the punch by other franchises. Are you hearing anything on that front?

 

[Bubbles]

Minnesota is in WHL's territory, not OHL's. And Minnesota is a long way from any current OHL city.

If the WHL decides that it has enough talent and there's ownership interest, it's possible that it might expand into that area. Fargo and Sioux Falls have USHL franchises; putting a team in the Twin Cities area might be viable. WHL would probably like to get back into Winnipeg. Between those four and Brandon, I don't see why the travel would be an issue. Prince George is about six hours from Kamloops, the nearest WHL city, and 7-8 hours from Kelowna and Edmonton which are the next closest two. The league is already spread across the western half of the country plus the northwest of the US.

Minnesota high school hockey doesn't seem particularly relevant to the issue. USHL stripped most of its talent decades ago.

Winnipeg refuses to build an arena so it's unlikely the WHL wants to go back.

Most likely and logically is that the WHL might expand into Oregon more and possibly California. Oregon could use an interstate rival for Portland, and California has been a growing source of players in the WHL and is a bit underserved in the minor hockey world.

 

[Corso]

I would wonder if the first move for the OHL would be to assimilate a couple of the well-heeled, well-supported USHL franchises. If some teams see the writing on the wall and have the wherewithal and desire to make the move, they might prefer to do it sooner rather than later to preserve player/coaching/management talent (and maybe fanbase interest) and also not to take the chance of getting beaten to the punch by other franchises. Are you hearing anything on that front?

The problem is that there are no real well supported USHL franchises in the OHL footprint. Muskegon is the obvious choice here, and its ownership has proven that it is willing to spend money on improving what is at best an average arena. Fan support needs to be better, however but there are some that feel a move to the OHL would boost attendance.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

Penticton's GM/head coach is salty... he's talking about Julien Wasmer.

Statement on the departure of Casey Brown and Julien Wasmer

www.pentictonvees.ca

We are a few weeks away from getting two 20-year-old defencemen back from injury, and coupled with the outstanding play of our two young defencemen, Julien understood his role was going to be reduced. He looked for an opportunity with another team, rather than compete for a more favourable spot on our roster. Though this places our team in a tough position in the short-term, once our team returns to full health, our blue line will be as strong as we had in recent seasons.

 

[bigdog16]

ushl -20 old kids prob ard 40 kids
ntdp - zero
bchl guessing ard 90( they have limit of 6)
nahl 352 .
my view nahl to be relevent needs to get lot younger and be a feeder to ushl - juniors .
lot of rosters are really low end 20 year olds that should be playing club who are taking spots - development and ice time from a 2006-2007 kid that may have dramatic upside . coach at nahl trying win with 20 year old where their goal should be development to move kids tier one or now CHL . also my statistical view is average age of nahl is 19.4 years old . i have a good friend who kid in league and he broke down statistically how old nahl was and i see if he can send me numbers and will post it . my main view is nahl need age limits on 20 year old like every league does . common sense lol

First off, I can't even comprehend what you are saying. The NAHL isn't a developmental league for 16-18 year olds. It never has been and it likely never will be. The NAHL also knows that it isn't a feeder for future NHL prospects. Their niche is the 19-20 year old kid who will end up being a middle six/bottom 6, bottom pairing, at the NCAA D1 level. The remainder are great D3 players. Without the NAHL these kids are healthy scratches at the USHL level or quit hockey at 18 years old because there is no where logical for them to play.

Your lack of knowledge of the junior hockey landscape is incredible.

 

[jtechkid]

The Junior Hockey pyramid in both USA and Canada is much larger than people seem aware.

All for 2024-25 to date

NAHL Weighted Average Age 19.667
BCHL Weighted Average Age 19.261
AJHL Weighted Average Age 19.193
QMJHL Weighted Average Age 18.848
USHL Weighted Average Age 18.824
OHL Weighted Average Age 18.733
WHL Weighted Average Age 18.687

and just comparison

NCAA Weighted Average Age 22.433


NAHL = no limits on number of 20 year olds that can play on a team
USHL and the 3 CHL leagues = Max of 20 year olds per game
NCDC = Max of 8 20 year old skaters per game

Also the EHL is the current leader in Division 3 NCAA commitments for what it's worth. That could shift to NAHL based on recent decision. EHLP often feeds into EHL.

The USPHL (which broke off from USA Hockey) is a league that moves players up quite a bit, often to NCDC, NAHL and Canadian Junior A. The USPHL-Premier is the top one of these two, and the USPHL-Elite often feeds into Premier.

In addition to the AJHL which is Canada's Best Junior A Hockey (with BCHL being an independent), there's the NOJHL, MJHL, SJHL, CCHL which are sending players to American and Canadian Universities presently.

The GOJHL is the one that functions most like a Minor League for the OHL. They were considering going independent, but may not with the recent decision as you may see more affiliations across all the Canadian Junior A Leagues.

NA3HL is the official third tier of the USA Hockey Pyramid but generally not as good as the independent ones mentioned above. A few NCAA D3 commits but mostly ACHA players from here, this one may not be around too much longer.

thx for summing it up in detail . my only point is nahl needs a limit on 20 year olds which is common sense .

 

[Corso]

thx for summing it up in detail . my only point is nahl needs a limit on 20 year olds which is common sense .

But why would they have to? 18 and 19 year old players make up less than 25% of all incoming freshman into the D-1 ranks. The majority of players (well over 75%) are 20/21 year old freshman. There are far far more 21 year old freshman entering D-1 than 18/19 year old players. D-3 skews even older! Well over 90 percent of incoming freshman are 20 or older.

 

[jtechkid]

thx for summing it up in detail . my only point is nahl needs a limit on 20 year olds which is common sense .

But why would they have to? 18 and 19 year old players make up less than 25% of all incoming freshman into the D-1 ranks. The majority of players (well over 75%) are 20/21 year old freshman. There are far far more 21 year old freshman entering D-1 than 18/19 year old players. D-3 skews even older! Well over 90 percent of incoming freshman are 20 or older.

The argument is most 20 year old in the nahl are not good players . So nahl has like 352 20 year old playing juniors thats taking away spots from high end 17-18 year kids . these 17-18 year kids should be playing nahl - developing and hope to move to the ushl than div 1. The nahl should get younger and be a feeder system to ushl and chl . the way nahl is set up right now most people think it will turn into feeder system to div 3. Right now nobody that wants to play div 1 wants to play in the nahl anymore and thats not good . Why does ushl , chl , bchl , all have an limit on number of 20 year olds ? Even ncdc has limit on number of 20 year olds . Im not saying get away from all 20 year old but have a limit of 6 per team and blend in younger kids . nahl has 352 20 year playing is ridiculous high number .

 

[bigdog16]

The argument is most 20 year old in the nahl are not good players . So nahl has like 352 20 year old playing juniors thats taking away spots from high end 17-18 year kids . these 17-18 year kids should be playing nahl - developing and hope to move to the ushl than div 1. The nahl should get younger and be a feeder system to ushl and chl . the way nahl is set up right now most people think it will turn into feeder system to div 3. Right now nobody that wants to play div 1 wants to play in the nahl anymore and thats not good . Why does ushl , chl , bchl , all have an limit on number of 20 year olds ? Even ncdc has limit on number of 20 year olds . Im not saying get away from all 20 year old but have a limit of 6 per team and blend in younger kids . nahl has 352 20 year playing is ridiculous high number .

You keep repeating the same thing and refuse to read what people are responding to you.

The NAHL isn't a developmental league for 17-18 year olds. It never has been. Considering the NAHL sends on average 6-7 guys D1 per team, your statement in that "nobody that wants to play div 1 wants to play in the NAHL anymore" is blatantly false.

Say for instance you do limit 20 year olds in the NAHL. You replace them with 17-18 year olds who weren't good enough to play in the USHL. You are then left with a significantly worse product on ice.

 

[Kingpin794]

The argument is most 20 year old in the nahl are not good players . So nahl has like 352 20 year old playing juniors thats taking away spots from high end 17-18 year kids . these 17-18 year kids should be playing nahl - developing and hope to move to the ushl than div 1. The nahl should get younger and be a feeder system to ushl and chl . the way nahl is set up right now most people think it will turn into feeder system to div 3. Right now nobody that wants to play div 1 wants to play in the nahl anymore and thats not good . Why does ushl , chl , bchl , all have an limit on number of 20 year olds ? Even ncdc has limit on number of 20 year olds . Im not saying get away from all 20 year old but have a limit of 6 per team and blend in younger kids . nahl has 352 20 year playing is ridiculous high number .

To put it bluntly, the 20 year olds in the NAHL aren't taking time away from any 17-18 years old that anyone gives a damn about. There limits in higher leagues because there are younger players there worth developing.

 

[jtechkid]

You keep repeating the same thing and refuse to read what people are responding to you.

The NAHL isn't a developmental league for 17-18 year olds. It never has been. Considering the NAHL sends on average 6-7 guys D1 per team, your statement in that "nobody that wants to play div 1 wants to play in the NAHL anymore" is blatantly false.

Say for instance you do limit 20 year olds in the NAHL. You replace them with 17-18 year olds who weren't good enough to play in the USHL. You are then left with a significantly worse product on ice.

That number on commitments is inflated and going down dramatic now and in the future . I think its same argument that most scouts think the bchl with the new rule will get younger and be feeder system to the CHL . Im just trying make argument to make Nahl relevant in the future . I dont think nahl players and league want be known as just div 3 feeder. thats where its going quickly .

 

[Bonin21]

Even if you limit older in the NAHL to bring in more younger most of the MN HS kids will rather play high school than leave home for NAHL hockey. That's a big chunk of prospective players.

 

[bigdog16]

That number on commitments is inflated and going down dramatic now and in the future . I think its same argument that most scouts think the bchl with the new rule will get younger and be feeder system to the CHL . Im just trying make argument to make Nahl relevant in the future . I dont think nahl players and league want be known as just div 3 feeder. thats where its going quickly .

They will be less relevant by capping the amount of 20 year olds. The NAHL isn’t in business to compete with the USHL.

If anything the NAHL might actually benefit more than the USHL with this whole CHL/NCAA conundrum.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The argument is most 20 year old in the nahl are not good players . So nahl has like 352 20 year old playing juniors thats taking away spots from high end 17-18 year kids . these 17-18 year kids should be playing nahl - developing and hope to move to the ushl than div 1. The nahl should get younger and be a feeder system to ushl and chl . the way nahl is set up right now most people think it will turn into feeder system to div 3. Right now nobody that wants to play div 1 wants to play in the nahl anymore and thats not good . Why does ushl , chl , bchl , all have an limit on number of 20 year olds ? Even ncdc has limit on number of 20 year olds . Im not saying get away from all 20 year old but have a limit of 6 per team and blend in younger kids . nahl has 352 20 year playing is ridiculous high number .

Frankly that's just not the niche NAHL is going for. There are already 20 year olds across the entire Junior Hockey landscape. This league is essentially saying, "we'll give you a place to play, so come here". The tradeoff here is that a whole bunch of players are obviously willing to do so and delay school another year in order to improve their College Hockey prospects. And then with such a system in place, college teams, such as lower NCAA D1 and D3 teams would rather have older players because they aren't chasing high-end ceilings or future NHL players, but players they can plug and play into their system for four years, so may as well get the guys who are the most physically mature already.

It's all pretty arbitrary what number is chosen, but junior hockey as a whole has chosen Age 20 as the last for junior hockey. A Tier II league NAHL isn't going to get a bunch of 17 year olds because the highest end ones will be playing in other junior leagues like one of the CHL, USHL or BCHL, and the next batch will likely not be packing their bags and doing the whole Junior Hockey thing while they're still in high school. By 20, they are an adult, out of high school and ready to do that before they enter College.