Proposal: CGY-FLA

[RasmusAndersson]

Juuso Valimaki for Owen Tippett

LD for RW, fills a big positional need for both teams. Both 2017 mid-1sts, both stuck on their respective depth charts.

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[TheImpatientPanther]

Juuso Valimaki for Owen Tippett

LD for RW, fills a big positional need for both teams. Both 2017 mid-1sts, both stuck on their respective depth charts.

Our trade discussion the other day got ya thinking did it?
I'm still stuck on it, definitely fills needs for both sides but just still hesitant to give up on Tippett.

 

[The Red Mile]

Yep this is a trade that actually makes a lot of sense.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I mean it makes sense for this year. But what other D do we have in the system that we can afford to give up Valimaki?

edit: with our cap the option is to go after a UFA. Not always the best plan but our only option really.

Kylington is gonna want 5+
Mangiapane is gonna want 5-6
Gaudreau 8.5-10
Tkachuk 8.5

that’s like 12 mill in increased salary

 

[The Red Mile]

I mean it makes sense for this year. But what other D do we have in the system that we can afford to give up Valimaki?

Poirier, Kuznetsov, Mackey?

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Our trade discussion the other day got ya thinking did it?
I'm still stuck on it, definitely fills needs for both sides but just still hesitant to give up on Tippett.

Literally hahahah once you said it I started looking at their ages and that they were drafted 6 picks apart and you guys are so deep at RW and we need one so badly and then you guys need a 3rd pair LD and Valimaki is stuck on our depth chart it makes too much sense.

I get the hesitation for sure and coming into this year I didn't wanna move Valimaki either but like both players both have high-ish upside so its pretty fair value imo. Also scary to move Tippett but with Denisenko and Mamin now (not to mention Reinhart Duclair locking in the top-6 RW spot for years to come) it really seems like you guys would be better off finding that long-term cost-controlled LD that can step into the top-4 when necessary like if Forsling is out.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

I mean it makes sense for this year. But what other D do we have in the system that we can afford to give up Valimaki?

edit: with our cap the option is to go after a UFA. Not always the best plan but our only option really.

Kylington is gonna want 5+
Mangiapane is gonna want 5-6
Gaudreau 8.5-10
Tkachuk 8.5

that’s like 12 mill in increased salary

I see what you're saying but honestly the cap reasons is a huge factor in me wanting Tippett. RFA this summer, probably could be signed to something like 2x2.5 or 3x3 (depending how he does here) and would be locked into our middle-6 RW for years to come. He would fit the age of our core and cap situation perfectly. If we give up futures for a UFA we are just hurting ourselves going forward whereas this way we address a long-term need at a good price.

Also imo with Kylington's emergence Valimaki basically has a low shot of ever cracking our top-4. Hanifin and Kylington are locked in for years and years to come and are basically the same age as Valimaki. We could find a suitable 3rd pairing LD in Mackey or even Zadorov or using a late pick at the deadline, but we can't possibly find a middle-6 RH RW like Tippett without giving up someone like Valimaki. I get the hesitation to move Vali but this fills a positional need and Tippett being a cheap cost-controlled option is exactly what we should be going after. I'd way rather that then move a pick for a Kessel or something when we are gonna need the help past this season.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Literally hahahah once you said it I started looking at their ages and that they were drafted 6 picks apart and you guys are so deep at RW and we need one so badly and then you guys need a 3rd pair LD and Valimaki is stuck on our depth chart it makes too much sense.

I get the hesitation for sure and coming into this year I didn't wanna move Valimaki either but like both players both have high-ish upside so its pretty fair value imo. Also scary to move Tippett but with Denisenko and Mamin now (not to mention Reinhart Duclair locking in the top-6 RW spot for years to come) it really seems like you guys would be better off finding that long-term cost-controlled LD that can step into the top-4 when necessary like if Forsling is out.

You'll get some FLA fans who will do this in a heartbeat because they're sick of Tippett.
Very curious about it, feel it's a very fair trade in a vacuum and works for both teams.

My only concern is Valimaki's knee and if his skating has been impeded by the injury?
Is he fairly physical? Not Gudas or Trouba like but he will separate the opposition from the puck?

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Poirier, Kuznetsov, Mackey?

Totally agreed.
I'm picturing:

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Mang-Dube/Backlund-Tippett
Pelletier-Dube/Backlund-Coleman
Lucic-Ruzicka-Pitlick/Lewis/Phillips

Hanifin Rasmus
Kylington Tanev
Mackey Gudbranson

That is a well balanced, young team. Tippett would fit in so well in a Sutter system too

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I see what you're saying but honestly the cap reasons is a huge factor in me wanting Tippett. RFA this summer, probably could be signed to something like 2x2.5 or 3x3 (depending how he does here) and would be locked into our middle-6 RW for years to come. He would fit the age of our core and cap situation perfectly. If we give up futures for a UFA we are just hurting ourselves going forward whereas this way we address a long-term need at a good price.

Also imo with Kylington's emergence Valimaki basically has a low shot of ever cracking our top-4. Hanifin and Kylington are locked in for years and years to come and are basically the same age as Valimaki. We could find a suitable 3rd pairing LD in Mackey or even Zadorov or using a late pick at the deadline, but we can't possibly find a middle-6 RH RW like Tippett without giving up someone like Valimaki. I get the hesitation to move Vali but this fills a positional need and Tippett being a cheap cost-controlled option is exactly what we should be going after. I'd way rather that then move a pick for a Kessel or something when we are gonna need the help past this season.

I think we should at least give Pelletier a shot at filing the spot internally. And we likely could see the Bison in the NHL next year as well. I don’t think RW is a huge need organizationally long term.

I like Tippet but I think this is the year we go for an impact player like Hertl. If we could include Monahan in the deal we could possibly even re-sign Hertl. Then guys like Mackey will be needed to play anyway for depth.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

You'll get some FLA fans who will do this in a heartbeat because they're sick of Tippett.
Very curious about it, feel it's a very fair trade in a vacuum and works for both teams.

My only concern is Valimaki's knee and if his skating has been impeded by the injury?
Is he fairly physical? Not Gudas or Trouba like but he will separate the opposition from the puck?

I honestly think Valimaki's knee and skating are totally fine, he's always had a somewhat choppy stride but he's very quick and mobile for a bigger guy. He's definitely not like Gudas or Trouba or Zadorov type but he is definitely more physical than Hanifin for example. He'll definitely separate the opposition from the puck.
I'm trying to think of a good comparable, maybe like a younger, quicker Ben Chiarot with much more offensive upside. Or a poor-mans Adam Pelech. Somewhere in that range with good but not elite mobility, good size and physical but not a punishing type, and solid IQ at both ends of the ice and is always looking to jump up in transition. Definitely still makes his rookie mistakes (and Sutter is insanely hard on him for it so far) but he's already a decently reliable 3rd pairing LD with definite 3/4 upside imo

 

[RasmusAndersson]

I think we should at least give Pelletier a shot at filing the spot internally. And we likely could see the Bison in the NHL next year as well. I don’t think RW is a huge need organizationally long term.

I like Tippet but I think this is the year we go for an impact player like Hertl. If we could include Monahan in the deal we could possibly even re-sign Hertl. Then guys like Mackey will be needed to play anyway for depth.

I am all for Hertl or Forsberg or Giroux but I can't see Hertl being traded within the division or Nashville sending Forberg unless they fall off a cliff. Giroux would be great but this type of move would not impact to make a deal like that at all, it would just fill a positional need and not change the cap situation at all. And I don't really agree that RW isn't a long term need, I would say its easily the #1 need rn. Aside from Tkachuk (and Coronato in 2 years) it's legit empty.

I'd way rather bring pelletier up on the LW instead of forcing him out of position too. We wouldn't be able to afford Hertl or Giroux next year anyway even with moving Monahan though, we're gonna have to move Monahan just to have enough space to resign those 4 guys you mentioned and then maybe have like 2-3 mil left over (which is why Tippett would be great imo). Imagine if we went insane and got both Tippett and Hertl, our offensive depth and scoring would be so much better and we have Mackey and Zadorov who can easily rotate in the #6 spot.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I honestly think Valimaki's knee and skating are totally fine, he's always had a somewhat choppy stride but he's very quick and mobile for a bigger guy. He's definitely not like Gudas or Trouba or Zadorov type but he is definitely more physical than Hanifin for example. He'll definitely separate the opposition from the puck.
I'm trying to think of a good comparable, maybe like a younger, quicker Ben Chiarot with much more offensive upside. Or a poor-mans Adam Pelech. Somewhere in that range with good but not elite mobility, good size and physical but not a punishing type, and solid IQ at both ends of the ice and is always looking to jump up in transition. Definitely still makes his rookie mistakes (and Sutter is insanely hard on him for it so far) but he's already a decently reliable 3rd pairing LD with definite 3/4 upside imo

Nice, appreciate the scouting report.
I'll sit back and see what the feedback is on this trade proposal.

 

[Nanuuk]

I wouldn't object to a Vali/Tippett trade. Both organizations could address a perceived area of weakness. And its not as if the teams are trading chopped liver. If someone else emerges in their organization, they still have tradeable assets whether it is Vali/Tippett or the emerging player.

I do place a larger value on Valimaki in that if he was bundled with another roster player, such as Monahan, the Flames could likely fetch a more accomplished (yet still young) player than Tippett.

Another consideration to this proposal, though, and from a purely Flames perspective, is that if we cannot re-sign one of our big guns (Tkachuk, Gaudreau), would a Tippett be able to pick up the slack?

For example, if Gaudreau does not sign and leaves (by whatever means), the 1LW spot is vacated. Tkachuk moves back from 1RW leaving that position vacant and a gap. Do you then move Mangiapane up? Dube? Promote a right shot from the farm?

Are those right shot RW's on the farm better or worse than Tippett? What Tippett has in his favour are two seasons in the NHL. The farm boys, unless they are phenom's, will be hard pressed to win a spot. Unless Tippett is a dud of course.

So, in the end I would go for this proposal. There are too many other variables that could complicate things. In this Gordian Knot, a simple one for one deal from a Flames perspective might be the best.

 

[Some Other Flame]

I'd do it. Gives the Flames exactly what they need in a right shot right winger. Plus Valimaki's 1.55M cap hit is too much for his role when someone like Mackey is cheaper and just as a effective.

 

[YP44]

makes sense to me

 

[Vinman88]

We have Olli Juolevi who is in the same ballpark as Vali. Keep the tomato here in South Florida