CFL 2024

[guymez]

It's the same franchise. They didn't change Presidents, the Manager, or have a dispersal and expansion draft so I see it reasonable to consider it the same franchise.

Would it be fair that Yusuf Islam can't lay claim to Cat Stevens' music because he changed his name.
Would it make sense to exclude Cassius Clay's career accomplishments because he changed his name to Mohammed Ali.

It's the same franchise, playing in the same city and the same building.

I disagree. Those examples are false equivalents.

This is a franchise thats embarrssed about any detail that ties the franchise to the Eskimo name.
The very name that encompasses everything that makes this team what is it.

As long as this team is named the Elks and it continues to treat the heritage of this franchise (its Eskimo history) by trying to insulate and seperate from itself IMO it is essentially finished as a franchise.
You cant successfully operate a franchise that exercises a muted sense of derision and embarrassment for what it was from its inception.

 

[K1984]

It's the same franchise. They didn't change Presidents, the Manager, or have a dispersal and expansion draft so I see it reasonable to consider it the same franchise.

Would it be fair that Yusuf Islam can't lay claim to Cat Stevens' music because he changed his name.
Would it make sense to exclude Cassius Clay's career accomplishments because he changed his name to Mohammed Ali.

It's the same franchise, playing in the same city and the same building.

Would just be nice if they treated fans like they have a basic level of maturity to be able to handle the word "Eskimos" accurately used in historical context.

If they need to ban the word now, then fine. I just don't want to hear about the "'78 Elks" anymore. It's ridiculous and patronizing. Other organizations that have been brow beaten to change their names don't do this, seems to just be an "Elk" thing.

The zealous desire to simply eradicate the word entirely is concerning in a macro sense even beyond a football team. Could not be any more 1984.

 

[joestevens29]

Worry about putting a winning club on the field. Even changing the name back isn't going to do a whole heck of a lot. Sure I believe they'll get some sort of boost, but they put together another team like they have been the past bunch of years and whatever traction they get is gone.

Haven't had a winning season since 2017. Any amount of good press will be short lived if they continue their losing ways on the field.

This club has many many hurdles to overcome, but without competitive football it doesn't matter if they fix everything else first.

 

[Stoneman89]

Would just be nice if they treated fans like they have a basic level of maturity to be able to handle the word "Eskimos" accurately used in historical context.

If they need to ban the word now, then fine. I just don't want to hear about the "'78 Elks" anymore. It's ridiculous and patronizing. Other organizations that have been brow beaten to change their names don't do this, seems to just be an "Elk" thing.

The zealous desire to simply eradicate the word entirely is concerning in a macro sense even beyond a football team. Could not be any more 1984.

The Canadiens used to be the "Maroons." The Leafs were the "Arenas" at inception and then the "St. Patricks" before their current name came into being. Even the Washington Redskins are still listed as the team that has won three Superbowls. History still calls those teams by those names. The Elks should walk the same path. And if the word "Eskimos" is so horrible that it can't be spoken even in hushed whispers, then why are we still allowed to say "Hitler" and "Nazi"?

 

[guymez]

Worry about putting a winning club on the field. Even changing the name back isn't going to do a whole heck of a lot. Sure I believe they'll get some sort of boost, but they put together another team like they have been the past bunch of years and whatever traction they get is gone.

Haven't had a winning season since 2017. Any amount of good press will be short lived if they continue their losing ways on the field.

This club has many many hurdles to overcome, but without competitive football it doesn't matter if they fix everything else first.

I wouldnt underestimate the impact of restoring a teams continuity with its history.
There is a reason why the NHL Jets kept their name when the team returned.
It has everything to do with the history and how that history resonates with the fan base.

The Edmonton Eskimos have a long and rich history that is fully integrated with this city.
Yes having a winning team is important but the environment around this teams perspective on its history is so dysfunctional that I am skeptical if winning would really solve that problem.
It might attract some fair weather fans but they arent going to sustain the franchise through rough times.
Having an emtional connection to your team is critically important for fans. Without it there is no reason to faithfully support a team. That connection doesnt just come from winning...it comes from the team integrating into the city and operating as an extension of the people in that city. With the amazing history the Eskimos have with this city it tends to bring with it some patience and tolorance for the times when the team isnt doing well.
What reason does a Eskimo fan have to support a team thats embarrassed about its own Eskimo history?
The history around this team is so rich and its all tied to the Eskimo name and yet the current version of the team wont even acknowledge that name.

The historical ties a sports franchise has to a city are extremely meaningful IMO.

 

[joestevens29]

I wouldnt underestimate the impact of restoring a teams continuity with its history.
There is a reason why the NHL Jets kept their name when the team returned.
It has everything to do with the history and how that history resonates with the fan base.

The Edmonton Eskimos have a long and rich history that is fully integrated with this city.
Yes having a winning team is important but the environment around this teams perspective on its history is so dysfunctional that I am skeptical if winning would really solve that problem.
It might attract some fair weather fans but they arent going to sustain the franchise through rough times.
Having an emtional connection to your team is critically important for fans. Without it there is no reason to faithfully support a team. That connection doesnt just come from winning...it comes from the team integrating into the city and operating as an extension of the people in that city. With the amazing history the Eskimos have with this city it tends to bring with it some patience and tolorance for the times when the team isnt doing well.
What reason does a Eskimo fan have to support a team thats embarrassed about its own Eskimo history?
The history around this team is so rich and its all tied to the Eskimo name and yet the current version of the team wont even acknowledge that name.

The historical ties a sports franchise has to a city are extremely meaningful IMO.

Most of the people that are tied to that long and rich history aren't going to be the ones to keep the team financial a float though.

Team needs newer/younger generation to build up that fan base again. Winning is the key to that in any sport.

Also Jets aren't exactly doing to shit hot and they were a top team in the league this year for a good chunk of it.

 

[guymez]

The Canadiens used to be the "Maroons." The Leafs were the "Arenas" at inception and then the "St. Patricks" before their current name came into being. Even the Washington Redskins are still listed as the team that has won three Superbowls. History still calls those teams by those names. The Elks should walk the same path. And if the word "Eskimos" is so horrible that it can't be spoken even in hushed whispers, then why are we still allowed to say "Hitler" and "Nazi"?

I agree to an extent.
I believe that the Maroons actually played in the same arena as the Canadiens...different franchises.
Regarding the Arenas...I think that there were a few iterations of professional hockey in Toronto back in the early 1900's before they became the Leafs. No real history form the previous versions simply because they werent around enough. I also think that being it was over 100 years ago adds to making it less relevant.

Regarding the Elks...
Its one thing to change a name (especially for reasons you cant properly support) but its another thing altogether to change a name and then try to insulate yourself from that historical name.
Its just so dysfunctional.
To expect fans to look the other way and not acknowledge the reality of that adds to that dysfunction.

 

[K1984]

Most of the people that are tied to that long and rich history aren't going to be the ones to keep the team financial a float though.

Team needs newer/younger generation to build up that fan base again. Winning is the key to that in any sport.

Also Jets aren't exactly doing to shit hot and they were a top team in the league this year for a good chunk of it.

One doesn't come without the other, and it think it's incorrect to assume that the PC name change resonates with younger people whatsoever. In fact with the demographic that they need it might have a negative impact just like it did with the older crowd.

Sports fandom, and especially fandom of a team is typically passed down from generation to generation. If the name change turned people away, the link is gone to the next generation of fans and the name "Elks" or even winning isn't going to be enough to bring them in.

If you asked me 10 years ago "are you going to make sure your kids are Eskimo fans" I would have answered with an unequivocal "yes." Now I don't honestly care if they never watch a game. Multiply this similar feeling across thousands and it creates the outcome we see today with significant long term damage to the organization.

 

[guymez]

Most of the people that are tied to that long and rich history aren't going to be the ones to keep the team financial a float though.

Team needs newer/younger generation to build up that fan base again. Winning is the key to that in any sport.

Also Jets aren't exactly doing to shit hot and they were a top team in the league this year for a good chunk of it.

The team only changed its name a couple of years ago. That connection is still very recent.
The younger demographic coming to games was happening under the Eskimo banner and now that team disappears and those kids are being told that the team is now called something else and that they cant wear the very Eskimo T-shirts and hats they used to wear. Not only that they cant even say the word Eskimo.
What a cluster f*ck.

I used to take my son to games all the time. We had been doing that since he was 5 years old. It was a tradition. Now that he is older his desire to go to a game and even follow the team is virtually gone. When the Eskimo name disappeared his love for the team went with it. I strongly suspect that he isnt the only young fan that reacted that way.

Regarding the Jets...they are and in large part have been a competitve team. They also have a rich WHA (winning) history that matters too. They dont have attendance problems. *

*EDIT: At least nothing thats based on anything other than how expensive it is to go to a game.

 

[K1984]

The team only changed its name a couple of years ago. That connection is still very recent.
The younger demographic coming to games was happening under the Eskimo banner and now that team disappears and those kids are being told that the team is now called something else and that they cant wear the very Eskimo T-shirts and hats they used to wear. Not only that they cant even say the word Eskimo.
What a cluster f*ck.

Regarding the Jets...they are and in large part have been a competitve team. They also have a rich WHA (winning) history that matters too. They dont have attendance problems.

The Jets kind of do have attendance problems, but that's because the team is getting too big for the market (prices outstripping what Winnipeg will bear), not because they don't care for the team anymore.

 

[joestevens29]

The team only changed its name a couple of years ago. That connection is still very recent.
The younger demographic coming to games was happening under the Eskimo banner and now that team disappears and those kids are being told that the team is now called something else and that they cant wear the very Eskimo T-shirts and hats they used to wear. Not only that they cant even say the word Eskimo.
What a cluster f*ck.

Regarding the Jets...they are and in large part have been a competitve team. They also have a rich WHA (winning) history that matters too. They dont have attendance problems.

The Jets aren't even selling out their 15k arena the past 3 years.

 

[guymez]

The Jets kind of do have attendance problems, but that's because the team is getting too big for the market (prices outstripping what Winnipeg will bear), not because they don't care for the team anymore.

Really good point.
Something that would never happen to a CFL team.

The Jets aren't even selling out their 15k arena the past 3 years.

I think that @K1984 covered that.
Hockey is becoming ridiculously expensive. That will never happen in a League like the CFL.

 

[joestevens29]

Really good point.
Something that would never happen to a CFL team.


I think that @K1984 covered that.
Hockey is becoming ridiculously expensive. That will never happen in a League like the CFL.

I mean people were complaining about the prices of tickets for the past few years in the CFL on these very threads we have.

The team name is just one of the many issue with this club and the CFL for that matter.

 

[guymez]

I mean people were complaining about the prices of tickets for the past few years in the CFL on these very threads we have.

The team name is just one of the many issue with this club and the CFL for that matter.

Some people will complain about anything...they just like to complain...lol

I dont think that there is any comparison to CFL and NHL tickets.
I mean I think that you can get EE season tickets for just over $150 a ticket.

I agree that the team name is one of many issues but the price of tickets isnt even on the list of issues IMO.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

It's the same franchise. They didn't change Presidents, the Manager, or have a dispersal and expansion draft so I see it reasonable to consider it the same franchise.

Would it be fair that Yusuf Islam can't lay claim to Cat Stevens' music because he changed his name.
Would it make sense to exclude Cassius Clay's career accomplishments because he changed his name to Mohammed Ali.

It's the same franchise, playing in the same city and the same building.

I know it doesn’t make sense to some but it just doesn’t feel like my team. I still go to games but that connection / pride is gone. People like Dustin Nielson will insist it’s just because the team is garbage (which doesn’t help) but that’s just not the case for me. I have supported teams through worse.

The organization slapped the fan base in the face imo and the elks logo is just a reminder of that.

 

[trick91]

I know many people (myself included a few times) who didn't go to a game last year because the team was terrible. I normally go to a bunch of games every year, last year I went to two.

Put a winning team first. Wasn't the Lions attendance shit before they started putting together a winning team?

 

[bellagiobob]

Most of the people that are tied to that long and rich history aren't going to be the ones to keep the team financial a float though.

Team needs newer/younger generation to build up that fan base again. Winning is the key to that in any sport.

Also Jets aren't exactly doing to shit hot and they were a top team in the league this year for a good chunk of it.

While it’s true that they will need the next generation to eventually take over the fandom, that’s tomorrow’s problem. Today’s problem is the awful team and lack of identity. A lot of the next generation of fans will come from attending games with their parents, etc. So you need to stop the bleeding now (ownership issue resolved, restore team name, hire competent staff) and then maybe there is hope for the next generation of fans. Or maybe not, who knows what people will want to watch/attend in 20 years, but for now you need get back the fans they once had as a starting point, or the team will be done before it even has a chance to attract the next generation of fans.

 

[K1984]

I mean people were complaining about the prices of tickets for the past few years in the CFL on these very threads we have.

The team name is just one of the many issue with this club and the CFL for that matter.

Apples and oranges. Big difference between a team running into trouble because there aren't enough people/businesses that can afford to pay $5-30k for a pair of seasons tickets to an NHL team and people fretting because their CFL tickets are $35 instead of the preferred $20.

The complaints about Elk ticket prices are either a red herring, indicative of the low value that people perceive the games to have, or a bit of both. If people loved the team and loved going to games you wouldn't hear complaining about ticket prices at $35/40. It just acts as a scapegoat to cover the real reason - nobody cares anymore.

 

[Stoneman89]

I agree to an extent.
I believe that the Maroons actually played in the same arena as the Canadiens...different franchises.
Regarding the Arenas...I think that there were a few iterations of professional hockey in Toronto back in the early 1900's before they became the Leafs. No real history form the previous versions simply because they werent around enough. I also think that being it was over 100 years ago adds to making it less relevant.

Regarding the Elks...
Its one thing to change a name (especially for reasons you cant properly support) but its another thing altogether to change a name and then try to insulate yourself from that historical name.
Its just so dysfunctional.
To expect fans to look the other way and not acknowledge the reality of that adds to that dysfunction.

I agree with your response to an extent as well.

I don't think time should be a determining factor relating to relevance. What's right is right. And if those examples aren't the right one, apologies, but I'm sure there are plenty of others out there more recent (such as the Redskins) that could be used for the argument.

 

[Stoneman89]

When you get public statements from your BOD president, basically saying it's time to move on from the older white guys and try to capture the younger, hip crowd with a new name, etc, you run the risk of losing loyalty. And that loyalty is longstanding and spread through that group with their friends, families, grandchildren, etc. Furthermore, those are the people with the bigger pockets. As we've seen the last few years, the younger hip crowd doesn't quite share the same enthusiasm to purchase tickets/merch/food/etc.

 

[K1984]

When you get public statements from your BOD president, basically saying it's time to move on from the older white guys and try to capture the younger, hip crowd with a new name, etc, you run the risk of losing loyalty. And that loyalty is longstanding and spread through that group with their friends, families, grandchildren, etc. Furthermore, those are the people with the bigger pockets. As we've seen the last few years, the younger hip crowd doesn't quite share the same enthusiasm to purchase tickets/merch/food/etc.

The most stunning part of all this is the BOD seems to be approaching this issue in the context of a normal business.

This isn't Pepsi where you can attract a younger demographic with a rebrand and youthful brand endorsements. It's a sports team, which is a business unicorn in terms of how engagement works. The way they think that if they just make things more "hip" and "new" that it somehow makes young people want to watch is insanely stupid.

 

[guymez]

I agree with your response to an extent as well.

I don't think time should be a determining factor relating to relevance. What's right is right. And if those examples aren't the right one, apologies, but I'm sure there are plenty of others out there more recent (such as the Redskins) that could be used for the argument.

I dont think that the Redskins are an example of what it means to engineer a successful name change.
We may have to agree to disagree here.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

The team has had bad stretches before and the fanbase still supported them. The Eskimos never had attendance crater like this in their decades long existence.

The Oil kings are one of the best drawing teams in the WHL the last few years despite being bad. The Riverhawks as well, no problem drawing crowds despite not being competitive.


Edmontonians show up for their teams even if they are bad.

 

[yukoner88]

So what is the CFL f***ing up this spring?

It'd be nice if the Eski...............check that.......Elks don't suck again.

EDIT: Ho boy, I didn't even look at the thread, just saw it, had a feeling and posted it right away.

After reading some pages.....I think I'm just gonna exit the chat again for this one.


Just please be a decent middle of the pack team this year. It'd be nice to see some decent football come out of Edmonton again.

 

[guymez]

The team has had bad stretches before and the fanbase still supported them. The Eskimos never had attendance crater like this in their decades long existence.

The Oil kings are one of the best drawing teams in the WHL the last few years despite being bad. The Riverhawks as well, no problem drawing crowds despite not being competitive.


Edmontonians show up for their teams even if they are bad.

I agree.
I guess the other thing to consider too is that the EE organization is so poorly run that I dont blame the fans one bit for not supporting this team.
I mean why put your hard earned money into an organization (run by an incompetent BOD) that just pisses everything (including the heritage of this team) away?