Proposal: CBJ - CGY

[dgibb10]

Huh that's strange so you are happy with Meier's play despite how he has clearly not lived up to his cap hit. I happen to think Huberdeau played quite well the 2nd half of the season in that same period had the exact same production as Meier, the difference being Meier had 19 goals, 10 primary assists, and 8 secondary assists, whereas Huberdeau had 8 goals, 20 primary assists, and 9 secondary assists. That's simply the difference between a play maker and a goal scorer.

As for physicality, Meier is more physical for sure but that saying Huberdeau provides zero physicality is just flat out wrong.

Lastly, they are 3 years apart in age

Timo Meier had double the goals and the same amount of points as huberdeau in 13 less games while playing through FOUR significant injuries.

I am happy with Timo Meier's play when he's been healthy.

When he had 2 injured MCLs and his skating speed was 20% lower, it was utterly horrific yes.

But Timo, playing through 2 injured MCLs, an injured oblique, and an injured shoulder, STILL outproduced a perfectly healthy Huberdeau.

And again, significant age difference, significant contract difference, significant production difference over the last 2 years.

 

[Double Dion]

Meier isn’t that good and his contract is bad but come on, Huberdeau is literally the worst contract in the league by a good margin. Getting out of his deal and only having to pay 1.5 per year in retention.would be such a massive win it’s not even funny.

You were happy with his play this year? He was like our 5th/6th best forward making almost double everyone else providing minimal defense and dragging our PP right down to the bottom of the league. Sure he had a decent month of February, he’s still a massive net negative by probably 4 mil now. Just wait til he’s 35-38 making 10.5 while skating slower than James Neal

Huberdeau's deal is worse than Meier's, but it's not by miles. Huberdeau is a bad defensive player, Meier is a putrid defensive player. They put up similar numbers in similar roles. Meier is 1.7M less and younger, but there isn't a lot of difference in terms of play. One could argue that Meier is actually worse because he has real talent to work with and Huberdeau doesn't.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Huberdeau's deal is worse than Meier's, but it's not by miles. Huberdeau is a bad defensive player, Meier is a putrid defensive player. They put up similar numbers in similar roles. Meier is 1.7M less and younger, but there isn't a lot of difference in terms of play. One could argue that Meier is actually worse because he has real talent to work with and Huberdeau doesn't.

As a Flames fan living in NJ and watching tons of both teams, I’m willing to give Meier another shot at a healthy season before writing him off to close to Huberdeau level. At least Meier had all sorts of injuries to blame, and imo he showed more flashes than Huberdeau when he finally overcame the knee injuries.

It’s just Huberdeau’s complete lack of speed and quickness that makes him an absolute liability imo. So many times he’ll just lose a board battles and cost us possession because other teams just skate circles around him and then body him off the puck. He’s ok positionally, but his lack of speed means that he’ll always get beat by top players. Meier kills some possessions and makes poor positional choices too (he gets lost in the D zone more than Huberdeau), but overall he doesn’t cost his team possession nearly as Huberdeau because at least Meier isn’t the slowest player on the ice (when healthy) and can generally keep up with the play. Other than that, Huberdeau makes the occasional great pass and Meier can score, but both very inconsistent and long stretches of invisibility.

Having said that, Meier is still overpaid by a fair amount and another bad season could change things and make it closer. But for now, I do think Huberdeau’s contract is miles worse

 

[Double Dion]

As a Flames fan living in NJ and watching tons of both teams, I’m willing to give Meier another shot at a healthy season before writing him off to close to Huberdeau level. At least Meier had all sorts of injuries to blame, and imo he showed more flashes than Huberdeau when he finally overcame the knee injuries.

It’s just Huberdeau’s complete lack of speed and quickness that makes him an absolute liability imo. So many times he’ll just lose a board battles and cost us possession because other teams just skate circles around him and then body him off the puck. He’s ok positionally, but his lack of speed means that he’ll always get beat by top players. Meier kills some possessions and makes poor positional choices too (he gets lost in the D zone more than Huberdeau), but overall he doesn’t cost his team possession nearly as Huberdeau because at least Meier isn’t the slowest player on the ice (when healthy) and can generally keep up with the play. Other than that, Huberdeau makes the occasional great pass and Meier can score, but both very inconsistent and long stretches of invisibility.

Having said that, Meier is still overpaid by a fair amount and another bad season could change things and make it closer. But for now, I do think Huberdeau’s contract is miles worse

I just look at impact on wins and losses. Meier was even worse than Huberdeau in this regard. The reason I say Huberdeau is a worse contract is the dollar total and the age. Huberdeau is actually the slightly better player today.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

I just look at impact on wins and losses. Meier was even worse than Huberdeau in this regard. The reason I say Huberdeau is a worse contract is the dollar total and the age. Huberdeau is actually the slightly better player today.

How do you measure impact on wins/losses though? That seems like a very subjective approach that’s influenced by a ton of external factors that are difficult or impossible to quantify.

I disagree about Huberdeau being the definite better player today after watching Meier show flashes post-injury this year and for all the other reasons I mentioned. But agreed that they were both big liabilities this past year. I just think Meier can bounce back a decent amount whereas I really don’t see that for Huberdeau

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Timo Meier had double the goals and the same amount of points as huberdeau in 13 less games while playing through FOUR significant injuries.

I am happy with Timo Meier's play when he's been healthy.

When he had 2 injured MCLs and his skating speed was 20% lower, it was utterly horrific yes.

But Timo, playing through 2 injured MCLs, an injured oblique, and an injured shoulder, STILL outproduced a perfectly healthy Huberdeau.

And again, significant age difference, significant contract difference, significant production difference over the last 2 years.

MOD. I don't care if you think Meier is better. My point was that Meier has factually not come close to living up to that contract in year 1. However, you are happy with his play so you would be more than fine giving it another chance. I was fairly happy with Huberdeau's play in the 2nd half of the season, so I am more than fine giving it another chance.

 

[dgibb10]

Every freaking time with you. It's once again always a pissing contest with you. I don't care if you think Meier is better. My point was that Meier has factually not come close to living up to that contract in year 1. However, you are happy with his play so you would be more than fine giving it another chance. I was fairly happy with Huberdeau's play in the 2nd half of the season, so I am more than fine giving it another chance.

You are trying to compare vastly different things.

3 years of age, 1.7 million dollars in AAV, and even in a year timo was battling 4 injuries, 0.3 goals per game and 0.1 points per game.



Over the last 2 years Jonathan Huberdeau is about as close to a hypothetical player who had NEGATIVE 20 goals over the last 2 years as he is to Timo Meier in goals per game
Meier is closer to being the league leader in goals per game over the last 2 years than he is to Jonathan Huberdeau.

Timo Meier got injured in both his knees for 2 months and outside of that has a 37 goal, 72 point pace player in each of the last 3 years.

Huberdeau is just atrocious

 

[Viqsi]

Quick question. Do y'all still need the rest of us Jackets fans here for your Meier/Huberdeau debate, or can we safely ignore this thread now? Just wondering; thanks.

 

[Double Dion]

Quick question. Do y'all still need the rest of us Jackets fans here for your Meier/Huberdeau debate, or can we safely ignore this thread now? Just wondering; thanks.

Probably safe for the 3 of you to unfollow the thread... I jest, I jest.