CBJ Board Summer '15 Prospect Rankings: #14
- Thread starter Samkow
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Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
TheOllieC
cajun filet
Add Nutivaara. Challenges for top-4 spot in one of the best European teams amongst seasoned professionals after a breakthrough in the previous play-offs. Merit which can't of course be compared to LeBlanc's try-out with Team Canada...
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Nanabijou
Booooooooooone
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I think the difference there is that LeBlanc's doing what he's doing at age 19, while Nutivaara is 21.
I've got both as Honorable Mentions, myself.
EDIT: Is Tynan possibly going to win this round WITHOUT me voting for him, just 'cause Collins had a rough time within the last week or so? That's some kind of crazy. I mean, I abandoned this whole process last summer in protest that he never even got added when I had him at #10 overall in 2013. Hell, IIRC I was the only one who ever voted for him that whole year. And now that he's in the AHL everybody's jumping on the bandwagon. Go figure.
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I think the difference there is that LeBlanc's doing what he's doing at age 19, while Nutivaara is 21.
Sure but I don't know if it is really grasped in North America how high Kärpät stands as an organization on the European stage, how is it build to sustain success with both mercenaries and Finnish national team players so to steal a spot in his first full professional and SM-liiga rookie season is something. Especially when you keep in mind that the hometown kid safeguarded Kärpät to the second championship in a row when all hell broke loose.
Partially same goes with Wennberg and Frölunda which is another quite succesful organization. These should be the same if not more powerful magic words as Team Canada or the KHL in LeBlanc's or Gavrilov's case.
In the first training game of this season Nutivaara was in the third pairing (out of four) and featured on second powerplay unit as the only defender.
Kalapudas-Junttila-Pyörälä-Ikonen-Nutivaara
Nanabijou
Booooooooooone
I know you've been banging the drum for Nutivaara, and I would love it if he turns out to be a diamond in the rough for the CBJ.
With the most recent draft, we have objective evidence in how Jarmo and his staff ranked this years' draft picks (draft order). Unlike the previous years' draft picks, it's not like we have a lot more recent evidence that a player has raised (or lowered) their stock from when they were drafted. He was a 7th round pick this year who went undrafted in the two preceding years.
That doesn't mean he doesn't have a shot at having an NHL career. I hope he does and I hope he has a breakout year this year. But it's clear that no NHL scouts had him ranked as a top prospect over the last 3 years, so it's pretty hard for me to go against that consensus when I look at our prospect pool.
I try to decide where the previous years' picks now slot in compared to the recent crop, but I won't presume to know more than Jarmo's group in terms of rating Nutivaara higher than players (Kolesar, Ruopp, Vainio, Gavrikov) that Jarmo clearly rated higher as recently as 6 weeks ago.
You are free to vote how you like, as am I - just giving the rationale for why he may be getting overlooked.
Xoggz22
Registered User
This is again bit replay for the summer but Nutivaara show happened mostly in the SM-liiga play-offs which intervened with the premier U-18 (?) tournament hence the most significant NHL scouting action (besides CBJ's Boumedienne) perhaps missing out on him. With his biggest performances happening during the most challenging play-off games, with him succesfully carrying the most demanding carriage of his career during a brief time window actually is which makes it so exciting. Like 'Datsjuk' he wasn't that known, very much scouted or highlighted when playing for some of the worst parts of this galaxy in Lahti, Joensuu and Kajaani... but he rose to the top.
With scouts next season twirling around Kärpät and Puljujärvi I think it is safe to say they wanted Nutivaara's rights locked down - mirroring it with the fact that they could have also went with Kole Sherwood in the seventh round.
Of course his age also suggests to save the overage pick for more later rounds value-wise since time is a thief.
Projection-wise I don't it is worrisome at all that he was 20 at the time of his professional hockey breakthrough and now at 21 on potential path to prominence through one of the best teams in Europe. For example Kevin Stenlund will turn 19 next month..
Misfire Puck
Registered User
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
- 43,701
- 26,750
I think the difference there is that LeBlanc's doing what he's doing at age 19, while Nutivaara is 21.
I've got both as Honorable Mentions, myself.
EDIT: Is Tynan possibly going to win this round WITHOUT me voting for him, just 'cause Collins had a rough time within the last week or so? That's some kind of crazy. I mean, I abandoned this whole process last summer in protest that he never even got added when I had him at #10 overall in 2013. Hell, IIRC I was the only one who ever voted for him that whole year. And now that he's in the AHL everybody's jumping on the bandwagon. Go figure.
Collins has had a rough go since he was drafted. It's not just the past week.
If it was my own individual list Collins nor Siebenaler would make the top 20.
EDIT: Is Tynan possibly going to win this round WITHOUT me voting for him, just 'cause Collins had a rough time within the last week or so? That's some kind of crazy. I mean, I abandoned this whole process last summer in protest that he never even got added when I had him at #10 overall in 2013. Hell, IIRC I was the only one who ever voted for him that whole year. And now that he's in the AHL everybody's jumping on the bandwagon. Go figure.
You call this "everybody jumping on the bandwagon"? Again, he was just the point leader for our affiliate in the AHL(the 2nd best league in the world). Way better statistically than the 2 forwards just picked ahead of him that spent time on that same team. I also don't understand how people put Stenlund ahead of him. With that said, it seems to be the same 3-4 people that even vote for Tynan, so I question how big of a wagon it even is at this point.
Tynan just led his team in points in his 1st pro season after completing 4 years in the NCAA. He's still only 22, not 25-26. And he isn't some flashy, 1 dimensional player. Size seems to be the only thing that people seem (or only thing they can come up with) to hold against him. There's pretty much nothing else that would suggest that he won't make it to the NHL and succeed at some sort of 3rd line role, at the very least. And with that said, the case could be made that after the NHL, the NCAA and AHL are the 2 toughest leagues to play in when it comes to small players. What more does Tynan have to do for you guys to realize that size hasn't held him back at this point and that there's really nothing that's been shown that it will in the future?
Him not being picked yet says quite a bit to me. I don't get how for some players or prospects, a good or bad season statistically means everything. And for others, good or bad stats mean practically nothing...
WannabeFinn
Beloved One
Tynan is 23, which is prime age for an nhl scorer. He's going to be held to a much higher standard than the younger guys who are in their big development years.
Also 48 pts in the AHL, even when it leads the team, only translates to about 21 pts in the NHL (using standard desjardins equivalencies between leagues). So Tynan could become our 4th line center, and he's got good intangibles for that job, but its an easily replaceable contribution.
Also 48 pts in the AHL, even when it leads the team, only translates to about 21 pts in the NHL (using standard desjardins equivalencies between leagues). So Tynan could become our 4th line center, and he's got good intangibles for that job, but its an easily replaceable contribution.
